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Oh Boy Jangling Items!

Rebonack··2 votes·370 views

Alright, so here's my take on the Jungle items thus far.

Purplesmite is, by and large, the safest option. You get improved sustain, improve clear time, and lower cooldown to better control buffs, Baron, and Dragon. And as frosting on the cake it is pretty nice for flattening minion waves, too.

Red and Bluesmite are nice, but really risky. Every time you Smite a champion you're giving up a jungle buff, which is a pretty big deal. I feel as though getting some degree of cooldown reduction on Smite if you secure a kill/assist with it would really up the Reward side of the equation on these Risk/Reward items.

Greysmite is just a mess. Right now it isn't good for anything other than putting a neon sign on your head informing the enemy team to ward their jungle and murder you. I would suggest increasing the Smite damage on Greysmite to make it THE Smite for contesting major Jungle objectives and to help you counter-jungle faster.

And now Enchantments!

Devourer is great. Possibly too great on Wolfy when combined with Redsmite, but that's more an issue with Wolfy than the items themselves. However, if this thing does end up being too much of a problem it would probably be a good idea to put a hardcap on its stacks. I would rather not drop its kill/assist double-stack down to one simply because that's encouraging a Jungler to take that risk with ganks and help out their team.

The rest of the Enchantments are really meeeeeeh. Basically, they're just stat sticks. Not even particularly good stat-sticks. Other people have shown that the gold-value on these items falls below comparable heaps of items (Kindle and two Ruby crystals plus Mercs, Morello's, Brutalizer and two longswords, ect). So I think the thing to do here is to take a hint from Devourer and give them some kind of fun passive in addition to their stats. Just to throw a few ideas out there...

Warrior now applies a bleed that deals (percentage of your Bonus AD) in physical damage over three seconds. Triggers off any form of damage.

Juggernaut now applies a poison that deals (percentage of your total HP) in magic damage over three seconds to foes that attack you.

Magus your spells mark foes with a curse. Hitting a cursed foe with a basic attack consumes the curse, dealing magic damage and healing you.

Just a few random ideas there. If you have a better one, feel free to suggest it.

9 Comments

FiendOfOne2 votes

I do agree, the other enchants do feel really expensive for what you get out of them. I do think they need a buff.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Making greysmite bigger is a really bad idea. It will wreck the objective game on mobile junglers.

A cap on Devourer stacks doesn't address the core problem with the item. Right now, Devourer is at its most broken right when you get it, just too much on-hit damage available from Skirmisher's + Devourer too early in the game.

I like your proposals for interesting unique effects on the other jungler enchants. A bit worried that your Magus is going to leave some AP junglers out in the cold (e.g.Karthus).

Rebonack1 votes

Making greysmite bigger is a really bad idea. It will wreck the objective game on mobile junglers.

A cap on Devourer stacks doesn't address the core problem with the item. Right now, Devourer is at its most broken right when you get it, just too much on-hit damage available from Skirmisher's + Devourer too early in the game.

I like your proposals for interesting unique effects on the other jungler enchants. A bit worried that your Magus is going to leave some AP junglers out in the cold (e.g.Karthus).

I'll admit I'm super-ffy on the Magus idea. The Warrior and Juggernaut ones are pretty thematic, I think, but with Magus? What new passive would you want to dump in an AP Jungler's lap that they don't already have from some other item? I dunno, I don't like that idea of mine very much either.

Devourer is pretty much a gimped Wit's by the time you get it for a few hundred gold cheaper. Wit's End is a very powerful mid-game item. You just don't see it very much due to its awful buildup.

And making Greysmite deal bonus damage would be super disruptive. I totally agree. But it's one of those opportunity cost things. You're giving up a lot of really great options when you purchase Poacher's Knife. Your ganks are now weaker. Your dueling is weaker. Your sustain takes a hit and you clear times slow a little. If you want some numbers, I would suggest totally removing all of Greysmite's present effects save for the 50% cooldown reduction on enemy monster steals and simply making it deal about 25% bonus damage for the purpose of Smiting objectives out from under people. So if you take Greysmite you had best be stealin' stuff, or you're wasting it.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I'll admit I'm super-ffy on the Magus idea. The Warrior and Juggernaut ones are pretty thematic, I think, but with Magus? What new passive would you want to dump in an AP Jungler's lap that they don't already have from some other item? I dunno, I don't like that idea of mine very much either.

Right. Just complaining for now =D

Devourer is pretty much a gimped Wit's by the time you get it for a few hundred gold cheaper. Wit's End is a very powerful mid-game item. You just don't see it very much due to its awful buildup.

Devourer is twice as much on-hit damage as Wit's End when you get it (since Devourer includes Skirmisher's) and it scales into being the best late game item. It's stupid broken.

And making Greysmite deal bonus damage would be super disruptive. I totally agree. But it's one of those opportunity cost things. You're giving up a lot of really great options when you purchase Poacher's Knife. Your ganks are now weaker. Your dueling is weaker. Your sustain takes a hit and you clear times slow a little. If you want some numbers, I would suggest totally removing all of Greysmite's present effects save for the 50% cooldown reduction on enemy monster steals and simply making it deal about 25% bonus damage for the purpose of Smiting objectives out from under people. So if you take Greysmite you had best be stealin' stuff, or you're wasting it.

Nunu is now the best jungler in the game by a hilariously wide margin.

Rebonack1 votes

Frankly, lower the power on a few of the granted smites might be a decent idea. Some of them are kind of silly in combination (hi there devouring skirmisher's). I'm really fond of the idea of making the Enchantment grant a scaling bonus sorta like Devouring does. Just not as silly as devouring.

Devourer is twice as much on-hit damage as Wit's End when you get it (since Devourer includes Skirmisher's) and it scales into being the best late game item. It's stupid broken.

Ah, you're including the damage from the Smite active, then. If I recall correctly, the OnHit damage originally had a cap of... three hits, I think? Might be wise to bring something like that back. It would just need to stay competitive with Bluesmite's nuke.

Just a kneejerk idea from fiddling with Devourering Skirmishers on TanKoggy (lol) I would say kick Devouring's base damage off at 20, make it stack twice as quickly, and set a damage cap of about 80 total. That would limit it's explosive mid-game damage spike and stop it from snowballing totally out of control late game.

Nunu is now the best jungler in the game by a hilariously wide margin.

How would you suggest making Greysmite a better tool for contesting objectives? Because right now I can't think of any particularly compelling reason to get it over Purplesmite.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Frankly, lower the power on a few of the granted smites might be a decent idea. Some of them are kind of silly in combination (hi there devouring skirmisher's). I'm really fond of the idea of making the Enchantment grant a scaling bonus sorta like Devouring does. Just not as silly as devouring.

Right. No problems with the nature of the enchantment, it's just overtuned.

Ah, you're including the damage from the Smite active, then. If I recall correctly, the OnHit damage originally had a cap of... three hits, I think? Might be wise to bring something like that back. It would just need to stay competitive with Bluesmite's nuke.

Also right. Skirmisher's has been through a few iterations now and none of them feel goldilocks. I think maybe the active should be more about holding the enemy down and less about damaging them -- the ability to stack two things that scale the same way is why D+S is so broken.

Just a kneejerk idea from fiddling with Devourering Skirmishers on TanKoggy (lol) I would say kick Devouring's base damage off at 20, make it stack twice as quickly, and set a damage cap of about 80 total. That would limit it's explosive mid-game damage spike and stop it from snowballing totally out of control late game.

Seems plausible.

How would you suggest making Greysmite a better tool for contesting objectives? Because right now I can't think of any particularly compelling reason to get it over Purplesmite.

As far as buffing Greysmite, the main thing I see about it right now is that it has a giant flashing sign on it that says "I'm coming into your jungle, set traps!" That introduces a lot of risk -- it either needs some utility in non-counterjungling situations or it needs to grant more reward for successful counterjungling. I am fairly worried about the snowball potential of an ahead counterjungler, so I would be looking at the more versatile Greysmite idea.

That said, I kind of suspect the problem is more about Purplesmite being too good. I think Purplesmite is too generic. Purplesmite stuns, heals, gives mana, reduces cooldown, and works everywhere. It's a strong choice even if your plan is to gank a lot or counterjungle.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Devourer is twice as much on-hit damage as Wit's End when you get it (since Devourer includes Skirmisher's) and it scales into being the best late game item. It's stupid broken. Devourer is a separate enchant entirely, you can't say its included.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Devourer is a separate enchant entirely, you can't say its included.

To be clear, Skirmisher's Devourer is one hilariously undercosted item. Skirmisher's on its own is a bit too good. Devourer on its own is about as good as pre-nerf Feral Flare. Then they happen to be incredibly synergistic and available in one item slot.

It's just way too good.

FantasySniper1 votes

They should make Devourer's damage based on level, the stacking can stay the same.

Poacher should be an objective-oriented smite, it's worthless for any jungler that isn't Udyr, Shaco, Rengar, or Lee Sin.

Your ideas are good and would make scaling stronger, but you may have to lower the bar on the granted stats just to accomplish that, because they're already really efficient.

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