Give Conqueror the Dark Harvest Treatment...

GigglesO·Jan 1, 2019·6 votes·2,340 views

Incoming downvotes aside.

Let ap casters apply it on spell cast, give adaptive ap.

The only reason why dark harvest was so good for so long was because it could only be proced on auto attacks. It kept it too strong on the few users that could really abuse it. Once we opened it up to everyone it got balanced relatively quickly.

The same thing happened to banner of the command. When it got opened up so that ad champions couldn't clear it instantly it got nerfed and then removed.

So just open up conqueror like you did for dark harvest so we can finally balance it.

29 Comments

ADC YuumiJan 1, 20192 votes

Conqueror has the lock to AD melee champions. While Dark Harvest was nerfed to be mostly it's basic mini scaling.

All aside, it should be Dark Harvest with more damage per stack vs. scaling. With bringing Conqueror to AP champions, it should have to auto adjust itself as only giving half the true damage conversion on abilities.

GigglesOJan 1, 20191 votes

AP melee champions should be able to use it if they want too. As far as ranged it wouldn't be a big deal.

"its only 20% penetration"

At least that is what all the abusers say.

Conqueror has the lock to AD melee champions.

So thats why ranged ad champions still have the option of using it? It would be identically balanced for ranged mages...

RagnaveilJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

AP melee champions should be able to use it if they want too.

Sure, when this rune is opened up to every other bruiser who cant consistently keep it up (Aatrox and any other heavy spell caster bruiser) and isn't completely broken as all hell.

"its only 20% penetration"

At least that is what all the abusers say.

Not really, more like the people that don't understand the math say such a thing.

So thats why ranged ad champions still have the option of using it?

You mean Draven? I don't recall having any other ranged AD champions besides just him being able to use it effectively. Even with the option available, they'd rather take PTA or Fleet since they don't have the massive early damage that Draven possesses.

GigglesOJan 1, 20191 votes

Its already opened up to aatrox/riven, all he/she has to do is auto attack first and once every 4 seconds. Which they should be doing anyways.

Noting new there. For a "bruiser" keystone you sure seem to have the intent to keep it only for x but not y z bruisers.

Its almost as if you know its busted, but if more champs could use it it would get nerfed.

RagnaveilJan 1, 20192 votes

If its open to Aatrox, then why is no one using it? Oh thats right, his auto weaving sucks compared to someone like Riven who can do it consistently and constantly. Aatrox on the other hand gets locked out of autoing when Q'ing, W'ing, and R'ing. E's only a reset, but mainly is used to change the distance of Q.

I would be fine with every bruiser having access to the rune, but I don't want them having the keystone in this form, with it being adjusted to those champs. It just invites more stat check.

By any means the rune just needs to be replaced with a less stat check bruiser rune.

GigglesOJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It just invites more stat check.

All it is is a stat check rune. If you want it to not be a stat check rune we need to make it only every 4s like grasp.

RagnaveilJan 1, 20191 votes

or make it a fight scaling rune, just like FoB was... Except it doesn't have true damage.

GigglesOJan 1, 20192 votes

They need to remove the true damage/reduce it then...

Or they need to remove the ad.

FoB was still a stat checky rune.

RagnaveilJan 1, 20193 votes

At least FoB had no true damage.

LordGeovanniJan 2, 20191 votes

I believe that the Current state of Conq is super unhealthy but still dont think that it should be a fight scaling rune like Fevror of battle as that just takes it away from bruiser and forces them back into grasp because. There is no point in making it super weak early into a fight and stronger later because bruisers can hardly survive that long unless they specificaly are fighting another bruiser or tank who also wants to fight and not just do short trades, and the main reason i dont think that this should happen is that mages and adcs will just run circles around with their their permanent ambient passive movement speed on items item 3086 item 3907 item 3100 That isnt even counting that adcs have the strongest slows in the game mages have the strongest other cc with no delays and wind ups and when they do have wind ups they do massive damage unlike tanks. Adcs have usually have a dash or speed up to use to run. and mages have hp comparaable to better than tank items on top damage items giving them extra surviability to get their second wave of cc/ mobility to run/ damage to out right kill you. adcs kill you too fast too and assassins kill you too fast do damage in an aoe so they dont have to be accurate get free excape abilites and their spells come back up way too fast after using them.

XavanicJan 1, 20191 votes

Dark harvest was never good until its rework...which then everyone complained it was op, so it got nerfed, conqueror is not meant for ap champs as it will overload them beyond belief...the only limiting factor for mages right now is that they dont have a way to deal more true dmg

GigglesOJan 1, 20191 votes

"conqueror is not meant for ap champs as it will overload them beyond belief..."

How so?

"the only limiting factor for mages right now is that they dont have a way to deal more true dmg"

Also, ad champions had this issue before conqueror. How is that any different form ap champs?

Lots of players think conqueror is bad on burst assassins. Mages that burst would be no different. Long combat mages would stand something to gain from it just like long duration fighters did.

Every conqueror user out there "Its only 20% pen its not that busted"

If 20% pen isn't busted mages should get it too.

XavanicJan 1, 20193 votes

{quoted}

How so?

Also, ad champions had this issue before conqueror. How is that any different form ap champs?

Lots of players think conqueror is bad on burst assassins. Mages that burst would be no different. Long combat mages would stand something to gain from it just like long duration fighters did.

Every conqueror user out there "Its only 20% pen its not that busted"

If 20% pen isn't busted mages should get it too.

Because MR is already extremely hard to build (highest mr item in the game is 55) on top of mages already having 2 pen items they build almost every game (Void + Sorc boots) and even with an mr heavy build im still nearly dying to burst mages....while hitting 300+ armor is a cake walk

GigglesOJan 1, 20192 votes

You act as if 300 armor has any value between conqueror, and last wisper upgrades, and black cleaver.

Just because you can build more armor doesn't mean its more valuable than the 80-100 MR you can pick up. Riot lowered the MR across the game back in seasons 1-4 because it was too much better than armor purchases in negating damage.

XavanicJan 1, 20193 votes

{quoted}

You act as if 300 armor has any value between conqueror, and last wisper upgrades, and black cleaver.

Just because you can build more armor doesn't mean its more valuable than the 80-100 MR you can pick up. Riot lowered the MR across the game back in seasons 1-4 because it was too much better than armor purchases in negating damage.

Dude, i could explain this to you for days and you would still tell me otherwise, im just saying its too toxic and aint going to happen, hands down, mages are already the best class in the game due to lack of mr, they dont need to be stronger

GigglesOJan 1, 20191 votes

Then we need to also put up an argument to let item 4401 back into regular gameplay.

I've missed it ever since it was taken from us.

LordGeovanniJan 2, 20192 votes

neither are valuable due to the amount of Defense subversion in the game on top of defensive items innately being balanced to be weaker than damage initially but you cant build straight health because riot has an even bigger hard on for massive Max hp and Current hp damage numbers (and large base damage amped by missing hp) item 3153 DrMundo Gnar Fiora Ornn Vayne Varus Urgot item 3151 . Riot needs to balance with smaller % numbers and Base damage numbers that arent always a multiple of 5 where are the 68's when 60 is too weak but 70 is too strong the 127's 303's

Bears Dont CareJan 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You act as if 300 armor has any value between conqueror, and last wisper upgrades, and black cleaver.

Well let's see even when you have 300 armor and have them use le and black cleaver you still have 173 armor. That provides you 63% damage reduction from physical which is still very significa t. Even with conqueror you still have over 50% mitigation.

Just because you can build more armor doesn't mean its more valuable than the 80-100 MR you can pick up. Riot lowered the MR across the game back in seasons 1-4 because it was too much better than armor purchases in negating damage.

That is because Magic damage is almost exclusively ability based where physical damage applies to abilities and auto attacks.

So you reduce the amount of Mr available to equalize the damage between the two types. Of course, it is more than that, but that is the reason.

Mind you. there are ways to increase MR and offensive ability. They just tend to be men balanced.

Further.ore, sorc boots and void staff had their magic pen increased to.comprnsate for overall increased mr.

LordGeovanniJan 2, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Because MR is already extremely hard to build (highest mr item in the game is 55) on top of mages already having 2 pen items they build almost every game (Void + Sorc boots) and even with an mr heavy build im still nearly dying to burst mages....while hitting 300+ armor is a cake walk

60 item 3102

LordGeovanniJan 2, 20191 votes

There is nothing barring Conq from ap champions right now its only mages saying it doesnt scale how i want it to as if bonus stats was the main draw of the keystone and not the turning damage into true damage. Not that mages need true damage with how garabge magic resist and magic resist items are the best magic resist item in the game is a self gimp item and the second best one is a damage item the 3rd best has to be ramped up then the fourth best is abyssal mask.

GigglesOJan 2, 20191 votes

Forcing auto attacks is what’s keeping it away. Even for champs that would love it they just can’t weave enough autos.

LordGeovanniJan 5, 20191 votes

you only have to weave in one auto before your combo whats this about enough autos as if they have to constantly auto to keep it up. Only melee's have to constantly deal damage and that doesnt require autos

GigglesOJan 5, 20191 votes

Because to get any real effect out of it you have to keep it going that is why adc's aren't taking it.

LordGeovanniJan 5, 20191 votes

You are crying as if it takes autos to keep going but it doesnt though you have to be melee to keep it going its designed for melee's but adcs still take it on occation. the real reason adcs dont take it is because their damage is so dam outrageous that they dont need any true damage calcualation in the slightest and that will only lower their damage out put compared to press the attack or lethal tempo or they are taking fleet of footwork for sustain and kiting.

Vile OdiumJan 1, 20191 votes

Yeah conqueror is completely overtuned, me and my friend just did a video about it and how OP jungle role is. Highly recommend check it out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFej9569s48&t=

IllabetheJan 1, 20191 votes

You do realize I get 35-40 stacks every game on Zyra on DH...... up to about 450 damage from a proc..... resetting several times a fight? Nerfed? Maybe in ARAM.....

Done25Jan 5, 20191 votes

Riot tried it, but it made tanks even stronger when they took it. This rune was intended to make them weaker.

GigglesOJan 5, 20191 votes

Source?

Done25Jan 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Source?

This was weeks/months ago and I'm too lazy to hunt up the specific post.

The general thrust was that: Tanks are very good at staying alive for a long time. They have no good penetration items. (Ex. Void Staff on Moakia/Amumu? Way too squishy.) Tanks have, or at least used to have, very good AP ratios to make up for the fact that they had to spend money on survival just to even get into a fight without instantly dying if they weren't Alistar.

All of which went very well with Conq.