Does anyone else worry the new mage will be essentially erased due to high level play?

Naalith··41 votes·15,140 views

Let's look at the most recent mages that have been released. AurelionSol Zoe Taliyah Swain Ryze (reworks) Azir

I would argue that Swain is the only champion in this list that has not been reduced to a shadow of his former self, and even he got some slaps on the wrist because of his bottom lane meta that haven't really been reversed. Every other one of these champions started as "Hey, that's a badass concept and I love me some mages! Wow this champion is fun!" But within a few patches people got extremely good at them, so they had to be nerfed. This continues for a long, long drawn out series of nerfs and kit adjustments that absolutely destroy the feel of the champion. Eventually the only people who are playing them well are basically Challenger players and pros who are in a competitive setting which is basically not the same game as League of Legends.

I'm hyped for the new mage, but then again, I'm hyped for every new character. I have level 7 on every champion or VGU released after Camille and perhaps it is my flexibility with the whole roster of the game that makes me nervous. I have level 7 on Swain, Ryze, Azir, and Zoe, and have level 5 Taliyah (can't get 7 because I hate the rework they made to her) and 4 on Aurelion (he was obliterated after release and I never really tried to play him again) so I know firsthand that mages basically get the short end of the balance stick because of how important mid lane and map play are at high levels of play. Mages, more than any other class, get shafted and become unfun after release because of balance reasons. Azir came out in 2014 for Christ sake, and basically every mage released since then (exception of Swain, for now) has basically been nerfed to the point that only high level one tricks can use them successfully anymore.

Basically I'm just concerned that, once again, a really fun and interesting character will be released and slowly be whittled down to nothing. Mages have some of the coolest gameplay fantasies that can actually come to life because of how magic manifests in-game, and obviously have some of the coolest and most interesting abilities. It's just sad that champions like Kaisa can be released and break the game for over half the season at all levels of play and continues to escape nerfs, yet mages are instantly slammed and basically just become pro picks and high level OTP fodder. I really don't want Riot to mess this one up, especially with all the speculation about how truly awesome this champ is going to be both in lore and in game.

49 Comments

Rαy32 votes

Sol is incredibly strong to be honest.

Kadexe16 votes

Yeah this guy got away unscathed. He's always been top-tier, but he takes so long to learn that most pros don't bother. He'll just be banned out if the other team knows you play him, and you could've learned 3 champions in the same time. Aurelion onetricks are to be feared, especially in Diamond and above.

stone the blacks2 votes

:)

D357R0Y3R26 votes

Aurelion sol wasn't gutted because of pro

chipndip112 votes

Expanding so this guy doesn't have to:

  1. He wasn't even gutted. Dude's still insane if you hardcore main him.

  2. He was nerfed because hardcore mains were nabbing 61%+ win rates on him or something insane like that.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Probably higher winrates, i recall hearing that high taliyah/zac ones had like 75% at their best.

Velasan1 votes

{quoted}

Expanding so this guy doesn't have to:

  1. He wasn't even gutted. Dude's still insane if you hardcore main him.

  2. He was nerfed because hardcore mains were nabbing 61%+ win rates on him or something insane like that.

Always wondered how they did that. I like the champion, but I can't play Aurelion Sol for anything lol. Sooner or later someone can always multi dash inside my stars and I can't peel them.

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

it's all about 200 IQ positioning and 2000 IQ vision control

Poske6 votes

{quoted}

Aurelion sol wasn't gutted because of pro

Aurelion sol also isnt gutted

Easly in top 3 mids in a game

D357R0Y3R4 votes

I love what Dopa said about Aurelion Sol

"a plat aurelion sol can easily outlane a challenger midlaner when this champion is broken"

Great Fox1 votes

{quoted}

Aurelion sol wasn't gutted because of pro

Not only was he not gutted because of pro play -- he's still incredibly good in capable hands. He's maintained a ~52%-54% winrate through basically all patches in Plat+

Malak14 votes

Asol is actually broken in solo Q right now

Slythrin Umbreon9 votes

I'm sure the new mage will be a great addition to our already overflowing support roster.

RyzeTheSmurfMage2 votes

I don't think it will be a support since the last new champ (aka Pyke) is one.

Bronze 6 Yasuo5 votes

Taliyah is strong af I don’t know what ur talking about

Naalith14 votes

The current Taliyah exists as a jungler after a rework intended to make her more tenable to lower level players while getting rid of lots of high level play potential (AOE Q mainly). She's strong, but she's basically not the same character and mid lane Taliyah lovers are basically out of luck.

Kadexe2 votes

She's still good midlane though. She's just not meta right now, except as a jungler.

Ifneth1 votes

I still play her midlane and can still do well. It’s just that her jungle is so much better than her midlane that she’s wasted there.

Bârd11 votes

She has a 0.44% pick rate in mid. Of course her win rate is high, the only people playing her there are one tricks.

She's bad in mid right now because her waveclear is bad. That's all.

They made her Q single target, and because of that she lost any semblance of lane priority she once had. She can't shove lane nearly as well as other mages anymore, so she can't roam as much as she wants to.

As such, she's been relegated to the Jungle, where the compensation buffs she received are much more important than the AoE removal.

Noor Sakata2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze 6 Yasuo,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bUqPs8q5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-07T21:26:31.808+0000)

Taliyah is strong af I don’t know what ur talking about

Strong as a jungler , not a mid laner , for a mid laner she is weak af lol

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bUqPs8q5,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-10-08T04:35:29.249+0000)

Strong as a jungler , not a mid laner , for a mid laner she is weak af lol

Not gonna disagree but... Yeah...

Ive always thought Tahlias Q should proc on-hit effects when used on worked ground, and deal more damage to minions while not on worked ground. Like... Youre lobbing a bunch of smaller rocks which do well against non-human targets, but when youre doing worked ground youre lobbing larger rocks that work well on human targets.

Ifneth1 votes

She’s still good mid, but she’s amazing in the jungle. So, high elo mids just let their junglers play her.

Noor Sakata1 votes

{quoted}

She’s still good mid, but she’s amazing in the jungle. So, high elo mids just let their junglers play her.

Not even good , it's only good if you land w every single time on e and auto to proc electrocute , the aoe removal from Q made her Q pokes really bad since people can just hide behind minions , and last time I played vs an Annie with her , killed her twice pre 6 , at 6 she even missed her Ult but still made it block my Q and we both died , in mid game , there is nothing I can do against her.

Ifneth1 votes

Rule #1 of League is don’t chase Singed. Rule #2 of League is don’t engage on Annie.

And in general on Taliyah, don’t try to shove your own lane. If you’re 2/0, then that lead should let you snowball the sidelanes with Ult roams.

Sucction2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze 6 Yasuo,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bUqPs8q5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-07T21:26:31.808+0000)

Taliyah is strong af I don’t know what ur talking about

She's not even a mid laner tho that's why

CIayman5 votes
  1. ASol is incredibly boring to the vast majority of players. He's not bad. He just holds no appeal.
  2. Swain hasn't been "essentially erased" lmao he has a 50.82% winrate (average of all ranks) in NA, which I'll remind you is 77% gold and below
  3. Even when Zoe was OP in pro play, she was gutter trash in low elo. She had something like a 43% winrate in low elo when all her damage was on Q.
5050BS4 votes

Riot hates mages. They are not flashy enough for LC$. Zoe was an attempt to make one "Flashy" and we all know how that went.

Ifneth3 votes

You had a good post going until you suddenly veered into resentfully complaining about Kai’Sa. Your examples are almost all wrong.

Ryze has not been released or reworked recently. He was among the original 40 champions and has been split between competitive and casual play his whole life, leading to his legendary series of reworks.

Azir has not been recently released or reworked, either. He was broken in high level and competitive play since release, received a series of nerfs, and finally was balanced around pro play by the also-legendary Azir Treatment.

Swain was an oddball champ, like Karthus, for years until getting his rework. After a brief pick/ban state in LCS and some nerfs, he does alright midlane now, with a >50% winrate and >1% pickrate, befitting his niche status.

Taliyah was a good midlaner for a long time and survived many nerfs until her rework, which made her so good in the jungle that there’s no point running her midlane if your team wants to draft her. Riot is working on this.

Zoe is the only good example. She was a cool mage but ultimately failed because one-shots from fog are no fun for anyone but Zoe. She’ll need to have a different kit entirely one day.

Naalith3 votes

Well that's the point when I say Ryze and Azir as "recent" champions. I've been playing since season 1 and basically every mage since season 4 has been obliterated to the point of uselessness unless you're a one trick or high tier player. That's the point of the post, it's basically been years since we've been afforded a mage who actually sticks to the game rather than going into the shadows. Swain isn't erased yet, I pointed out he is the only one on the list who wasn't nerfed super hard. Aurelion Sol is really strong but the reason he's strong is people who play Aurelion, REALLY play Aurelion, watching people with less than like 50 games try to play him brings a tear to my eye.

F Ù Ń3 votes

Still sad to see how as a Zoe, people still complain about Zoe, when they stand still and have no wards. Now I watch point and click skillless characters dominating. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

chipndip12 votes

Honestly, Taliyah feels like a more balanced champion in the jg than she was in mid lane.

I honestly say let her rock the rocks in the jg.

Magi Mayvin2 votes

git gud

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

ah coming to collect free upvotes by complaining about mages being disliked by riot. classic.

Who Fed Ru1 votes

I'm quite surprised that this post didn't turn into a "Assassins are OP and AD itemization is way better!!1" shitpost midway

RebeccaUCuber2 votes

i Just hope he/she doesn't have a Dash or similar...I'd really like a control Mage :D

BreanneMarie1 votes

I agree with 100% its seems every patch its a nerf to mages and then the Assassins get to go on being perfectly fine. I know that they are all op but it seems they have a better chance at winning a game off of like 2 kills and some farm.

I PT I1 votes

I hated what they did to Taliyah (now I don't), but I do understand the mindless shove and roam with just one or two Q rotations, which when I think about it is unhealthy and uninteractive. She struggles a bit in mid, but I think she's fine tbh.

Fízz v21 votes

Ill be happy if its a champ like that tbh, so she wont get nerfed for low elo

Colton1471 votes

The new mage is going to be released incredibly weak and require buffs to be made viable like Ornn on release day.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Ornn is a tad bit unique because his ulti is so insanely powerful (whenever there isnt a yasou) that he much like old seju basically has to have a weak base kit to not be OP.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

There is certainty a divide between Swain players right now fyi on whether they like/love the rework or hate it.

And on the status if Swain is a good champion right now...

Don't quote me on this but I believer there are currently no Swain mains/one tricks in master tier and above.

Slim Gragas1 votes

What is this thread? The only champion here that has problems is Azir because hes either been really broken or just "okay".

Kledy McKledFace1 votes

Well Riot took the decision on focussing on the ADC this year (which means don't let mid laners take control/ supports either take their job like in last season). Pretty trying to go back to season 3 meta which was the best one in my opinion. The problem is, they didn't fixed the burst dmgs, nor balanced out all the ad carries (pretty much always those adc carries every single fucking games Kaisa Lucian Tristana Varus Xayah )

Read this small thread I've written, I've analysed a little bit how Riot balanced this season in terms of champions. As a support main, I'm horrified how Riot didn't care at all about supports players (and even forces players to play that position by filling people in)

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/bIo2aWPs-list-of-untouched-champions-in-2018-and-small-toughts-on-riot-2018-decisions

GodlyBane1 votes

Aurelion sol has never been bad after they buffed/reworked him

Taliyah is still a better jungler then most picks rn

and finally, Ryze can still one shot you with no AP, kite infinitely with infinite shields and has an on-click stun.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Well, that's not just mages, that's about most designs since S5 to some extend....also, kaisa got a good deal of nerfs, she just was so busted that it still isn't enough, just how zoe stayed dominant for a darn long time despite reciveing multiple nerfs in a row till the last one to passive+w finally did it.

Power Cosmic1 votes

Mages are safer than marksmen most of the time. They are also the ultimate gatekeepers, which is a good thing; to a point. I learned the game playing mages, but have become disillusioned with a lot of them.

Vivial Moon1 votes

For asol’s role isn’t a mid laner it’s a second jg lawl. Whenever e is up and wave is pushed, just roam and youll be surprised at the impact that you can cause

AirKingNeo1 votes

try talking to kayle mains about the rework

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