if ad items improve basic attacks, so should ap items.

Plasma Servant··2 votes·1,069 views

AD champions get to have the items they need to purchase provide huge benefit to their basic attacks. They don't have to buy any specific item in order to enable this (yes, I know of Nashur's tooth) they just buy AD items and their basic attacks improve. The same should be true for AP items. If a champion has an AP item then his basic attacks should do increased damage just like AD champions have their basic attacks (as well as their abilities). Sure, AP items tend to be higher numbers, but AD champs have higher ratios. The ratios for AP are generally much lower. And when attacking structures, the AD has all that damage hitting the structure ... an AP champ has none of his AP dealing damage (except for those that have on hit ... Heimer turrets). Inherently not an even playing field.

34 Comments

Kazaashi7 votes

Having a High AP actually does increase your AA dmg to towers:

Damage to a turret is based on base attack damage plus the higher of bonus attack damage or 40% of ability power. It is not affected by any kind of armor penetration or magic penetration

(Source LoL wiki)

TecToNiiC6 votes

Downvoted without opening thread, opened thread to confirm i meant to downvote

CamaHa6 votes

Yo I want 120 AD items.

Zmuecat2 votes

Fine.

But you can't crit anymore.

CamaHa1 votes

{quoted}

Fine.

But you can't crit anymore.

Fine but no more CDR.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

fine but no more ranged adc's

Enkidusmurf5 votes

AD offers sustained damage in the form of auto attacks. AP offers burst. There's some crossover. Twisted Fate is an AA-heavy mage, and Graves is a bursty AD caster.

Put it this way: An adc will not usually 100-to-0 someone like LeBlanc. So why should LeBlanc be able to consistently chunk someone with AAs like, for instance, Cait?

Edit: Also, it's not true that AP champs have no benefit from their AP against turrets and other structures. If 40% of your AP is greater than your AD, you deal 40% of your AP instead.

Only Play Darius2 votes

It was bugged vs inhibitors for the longest time. It was fixed last patch.

Enkidusmurf1 votes

Ah, okay. I knew I heard something about it recently, and I remembered the figure. Makes sense now. Thanks!

Centuros2 votes

You actually do get a damage boost for AP when hitting structures, though I don't remember what the actual numbers are.

Plasma Servant1 votes

only ziggs does.

pleep2 votes

Such a stupid post. I refuse to believe the op is even lvl 30 yet after reading this garbage

Irelia Bot1 votes

If this was the Dota system then you would see this happening.

But this isn't dota even though dota does some things far better then league.

Qazgir1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bFd9AHpd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-11T15:57:33.476+0000)

If this was the Dota system then you would see this happening.

But this isn't dota even though dota does some things far better then league.

If this was Dota only about 5 abilities would scale at all.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

If this was Dota only about 5 abilities would scale at all.

And yet abilities would still be good.

Qazgir1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bFd9AHpd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-11T15:57:33.476+0000)

If this was the Dota system then you would see this happening.

But this isn't dota even though dota does some things far better then league.

Oh and there would not be any such thing as AP

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

item 3057 item 3100 item 3078 Arcane Blade.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

For starters there is already Lich Bane and Nashor's Tooth that already does this for champions that are AP and auto attack. Having it naturally will just make them too strong and as a result need their abilities being nerfed, there is no reason in making every single champion in League auto attack reliant.

Immortal Strife1 votes

Just take the arcane blade mastery for more ap AAs.

Plasma Servant1 votes

There isn't an arcane blade mastery ... what season are you stuck in?

Wolfess1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Plasma Servant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bFd9AHpd,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-02-01T12:09:03.569+0000)

There isn't an arcane blade mastery ... what season are you stuck in?

dude you necroed your own 11-month old discussion.

Catastrop1 votes

Wow, I didn't even notice. He's definitely got a lot of free time.

SwiftKitten881 votes

i main an ap caster and your suggestion is just bad... item 3100 already does this. go buy it

Plasma Servant1 votes

so what item does an ad item have to purchase in order to do the same thing? And even lich bane only does that on the first basic attack after casting a spell. That's my point.

AD's don't have to buy anything. AP's do (and nashor's tooth also does a percent as well ... and far more utility that lich bane for ap's with long cd).

Axests1 votes

there's this mastery that makes your basics attacks scale off ap, you should look it up

Only Play Darius1 votes

And therein lies the core problem with AD casters.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

That's actually mostly false...

A percentage of their AP does go into dealing damage to towers. And AP mages do bursty spell damage. That's the point.

You seem to have a skewed concept of how this game works... that's how it's intended to be, and the whole game is balanced around it.

Plasma Servant1 votes

There may be some things somewhat off, but if you ever play aram, and you see a team heavy in ad, they shred turrets, while a team heavy in ap, take forever to take a turret down. It needs balance. If 100% of AD items hit turrets with basic attacks, and you can easily have attack speeds of 2/second and 300 AD, then you are going to do way more damage to turrets as an ad than as an ap (even if you had 700ap, you still only have .7 attack speed if that ... translates to 196 damage/second to structures ... an ad with just 250 damage and a.s. of 2/sec gives 500 damage/sec to the same tower. AD's have multiple items that increase attack speed and are geared toward AD champs, add to that life steal works for basic attacks while spell vamp only works on spells (think of poor teemo that has only 2 damage spells that proc spell vamp ... his q and r) and ap champs are always at a disadvantage unless they snowball into insta-kill champions (which I also think is no fun, unless the damage is inversely proportional to survivability at all levels).

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

... I continue to disagree.

The game needs two types of damage. By nature of the fact that AD champs have autos, their damage will tend to be sustained. Conversely, AP champs will tend to be bursty, since they have spells with more effects and these are gated by cooldowns. When you have both, they can focus champions together and kill them with both types of damage.

It's not unfair. Both teams face the same reality of needing both. Yes, the AD champs are better at taking turrets. NO, that doesn't mean the game isn't balanced. If you want to design a game where the AP champs are responsible for taking towers, go right ahead. The rest of us are fine with how it is.

Plasma Servant1 votes

Darius isn't bursty? Graves isn't bursty? Jayce? There are a ton of very bursty AD champs. I've seen a Darius 100-0 people in less than 2 seconds, while being pounded and hardly taking damage. I've seen Jayce 100-0 champions (though he is less durable, but still has the benefit of life-steal working on every attack (or mana if he is using LF/HC).

Because riot doesn't seem to want to have random individual/balanced teams in aram, needing both might be great if you get both, but it isn't possible to choose champions there. Though I'd love it if normal mode came to the HA, I doubt riot would do it because it would be so much more fun that nobody would play the other modes.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Even AD champs that have some burst have some of that burst tied up in autos. It's THE REASON there are two types of damage. To act like this is an oversight in the game is ridiculous. It's 100% intentional.

And although you haven't said it outright, you are also acting like ARAM is a good platform to explore balance issues. It isn't. ARAM is a fun distraction from the more interesting and more strategic SR.

Normal mode fun on HA?! That's laughable. I would love to get a Red in here and talk about the number of hours and players that play each game mode. It's true that ARAM has a dedicated player base, but it's silly to think that it's the backbone of this game. Don't forget that it came FAR second.

The Whamboozler1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Plasma Servant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bFd9AHpd,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2015-03-13T03:03:32.782+0000)

There may be some things somewhat off, but if you ever play aram, and you see a team heavy in ad, they shred turrets, while a team heavy in ap, take forever to take a turret down. It needs balance. If 100% of AD items hit turrets with basic attacks, and you can easily have attack speeds of 2/second and 300 AD, then you are going to do way more damage to turrets as an ad than as an ap (even if you had 700ap, you still only have .7 attack speed if that ... translates to 196 damage/second to structures ... an ad with just 250 damage and a.s. of 2/sec gives 500 damage/sec to the same tower. AD's have multiple items that increase attack speed and are geared toward AD champs, add to that life steal works for basic attacks while spell vamp only works on spells (think of poor teemo that has only 2 damage spells that proc spell vamp ... his q and r) and ap champs are always at a disadvantage unless they snowball into insta-kill champions (which I also think is no fun, unless the damage is inversely proportional to survivability at all levels).

If you have 2 attacks per second and 300 AD, odds are you built NOTHING but damage, with perhaps some lifesteal. No defenses. So then a mage comes along and presses Q once and BAM. You're at half your health. If he presses his other three abilities you're dead outright, because he does damage insanely fast, and likely stuns, binds or knock-ups you as well, preventing your retaliation. Oh sure, this isn't always the case, but in general, THIS is the tradeoff. AD champs do strong damage with their Auto attacks. AP champs do strong damage with their SPELLS, which are often equal to or superior in range to your auto attacks, and provide either damage over an area or some form of utility and CC. Do they push towers slower? Yes. Cant they poke a whole team off of a tower so their friendly adc can do damage to it? Yes. Can they just blow you up and then push the tower themselves a little slower than you could? Yep.

There are AD scaling casters in the game, but their abilities are usually more limited in things like range and utility. What you're suggesting would make mages into adcs but likely decidedly better, since they'd still have all their poke and utility abilities. We may as well make them all tanky too, since it's not fair tanks can survive a bit of burst and these poor squishies can't. But then the tanky AD caster with the best abilities will be the one always picked, so to make it REALLY fair, we'll have to give all champions the exact same abilities. In short my friend, you are an idiot and you clearly do not understand this game or how the roles within it work.

Catastrop1 votes

This isn't Smite. Go play Smite if you'd like scaling magical AA's.

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