Fizz Is Impossible To Punish, Especially With How Weak Turrets Are

63536895_DEL··149 votes·9,008 views

At this point it is literally impossible to mess up with Fizz

The 1st one he just walked into turret and kills Trundle and E's out, pretty typical for a Fizz.

The 2nd one is just one big fuck you. He's not full health and Q's into a turret, gets ulted under turret by Sejuani and then gets hit by every one of her abilites, after the stun from Sej's ult wears off he doesn't use E to escape, he uses E to kill my adc under turret and then Q's out. Let me reiterate that. He dives a turret at 3/4 hp and gets ulted by Sej, and survives.

The 3rd one is infuriating. Fizz is chasing trundle and tries using his E to kill him, Trundle flashes at the very last second into an ally turret, Fizz continues to chase him by just walking into the turret, and then Trundle blocks Fizz's path with Ice Pillar. Fizz missed his E and got trapped in turret by Trundle, so what does he do. He just uses E again. Forget punishing him, its not even possible to outplay him when he fucks up.

Fizz can not be punished even when making the most retarded of plays imaginable. He can literally hard core fuck up and get stunned under a turret and not die.

The worst part about this is that a few months ago Fizz was ban worthy, but now I wouldn't dare waste my ban on Fizz, now there are about 20 champions even more unbalanced than he is, and banning them takes priority over banning Fizz.

TL;DR If you need someone to tank a turret just get glass cannon Fizz to do it, his armor is made out of my salt.

EDIT To everyone saying I messed up my combo in the 2nd one, I didn't. Sej's ult cc duration increases with ranks 1.25/1.5/1.75, It was a rank 1 Sej ult so it only stunned him for 1.25 seconds and you can see from watching the video that 1 second passes between my ult and using Q on him. His E is instant, he invulnerable from the moment he presses it, if I had waited .25 seconds until the ult stun wore off my Q would have went through him.

To everyone saying my post is invalid because Fizz was extremely fed, since when do AP items help you tank turrets?

To everyone saying Trundle should have sidestepped, how do you sidestep a targeted dash?

Here are Fizz's mistakes or what should be mistakes for those who asked. 1 Q'ing into turret aggro. 2 Not using E to escape turret. You can say it was a good play by Fizz using his Q to get out after he used E, but I argue that his E should not break the turret targeting if he didn't exit turret range. 3 Missing his E on Trundle, he got outplayed by Trundle. 4 Walking through turret aggro and getting trapped in turret by Trundle, he got outplayed by Trundle. If you watch the video and count the seconds he used E literally 4 seconds after Trundle flashed to dodge it, even with max cdr the cooldown should never be so low on an incredibly powerful ability.

201 Comments

Nanuk Pihoqahiak72 votes

I really don't think his E should have the utility it does while also giving him a strong slow, having massive base AoE damage with good scaling and being such a short cooldown.

63536895_DEL25 votes

Everything about it is OP and the invulnerability is outright toxic.

TyroneWatermelon4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Death LoL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bEa6EUqc,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-02-19T08:24:29.860+0000)

Everything about it is OP and the invulnerability is outright toxic.

You play shaco and call fizz disgusting...

Ackelope12 votes

As someone who has been killed by assassins many, many times, Shaco is preferable to Fizz.

MunchCrunchLunch57 votes

imagine if vlad pool chunked half your health and was at 1/3 the cooldown.

Ravenstiker20 votes

{quoted}

imagine if vlad pool chunked half your health and was at 1/3 the cooldown.

With no %HP cost

kaltenashes8 votes

-so uh stealth is so boring... what if we gave an assassin invulnerability with 4 seconds cd? HUH? Pretty cool, dont you think?

-hire that guy

Ruin Lance9 votes

untargetability*

ahferroin77 votes

This is an important distinction that so many people neglect. Land a DoT effect on him like a poison or Ignite, and he still takes all the damage while he's untargetable.

Standgrounding6 votes

Fizz item 3157

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

No, it's good that so much of his power is in his E, the problem is that it's not properly gate through cooldowns or other mechanics. If that power was more distributed throughout his kit then he'd be even more monstrous. They need to make it so using it at the right time is more like how a Yi will use his Q to dodge an ability or his W to tank a shot.

A Miss Fortune35 votes

I remember one game I played Karma mid against Fizz. I bullied the Fizz so hard in lane, he had 10 CS within 10 minutes, was two levels under mine, and even disconnected for a minute of the game. I built magic resist and I did everything possible to nullify him. Despite this he was still able to 100-0 me as soon as he felt like it, but we couldn't really do anything to stop him. He only went 4-3 but to see such a bad player in general be able to do exceptional with the champion is disgusting.

Fizz really needs a rework, he's toxic and breaks the rules of the game. You can't punish him but he can punish you very harshly. I think it would be best for Fizz to simply be gutted until Riot finds the time to give him a proper rework.

ahferroin74 votes

Karma's really not a great example. Properly countering Fizz means you need some hard CC (preferably point and click) and to play smart enough to use it after he hops off the pole. I know a couple people who play Swain and/or Singed who can shut down even a skilled Fizz with almost no effort. Ryze is also decent against him (Ryze's root has no visible projectile, and is instantaneous point and click, so there's no indication it's coming for Fizz to know to dodge). So are Nautilus (no kill pressure, but he can make Fizz's life absolute hell), Talon (once Talon baits the jump, Fizz is almost certainly taking more damage than he can deal), Fiora (with good positioning, you can Riposte the impact from his jump, and have an easy guaranteed strike on a Vital), and if you're really good as her, Kalista (she can still Rend people who are untargetable).

P3rro6 votes

Was actually gonna post about Karma v Fizz. Karma. It would could be pretty good match up into Fizz considering her CC persists through untargetable abilities and she can punish melee in general pretty well when they go in to CS. But the problem with Fizz is his ability to pop squishes without being able to retaliate.

Ultîma2 votes

{quoted}

** Karma's really not a great example**. Properly countering Fizz means you need some hard CC (preferably point and click) and to play smart enough to use it after he hops off the pole. I know a couple people who play Swain and/or Singed who can shut down even a skilled Fizz with almost no effort. Ryze is also decent against him (Ryze's root has no visible projectile, and is instantaneous point and click, so there's no indication it's coming for Fizz to know to dodge). So are Nautilus (no kill pressure, but he can make Fizz's life absolute hell), Talon (once Talon baits the jump, Fizz is almost certainly taking more damage than he can deal), Fiora (with good positioning, you can Riposte the impact from his jump, and have an easy guaranteed strike on a Vital), and if you're really good as her, Kalista (she can still Rend people who are untargetable).

You.... you don't know Karma very well do you?

Hayaishi226 votes

Fizz has needed a good gutting since forever. That champion should never be allowed to be remotely strong.

Haunt22 votes

Let's be real, Fizz can be bullshit but your examples of why are very poor.

First off, here's that guy's account: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=angelbaums

Yeah. He's a smurf. A good one, at that.

First dive could have been done on any other assassin as well, Trundle had hardly any HP left

Second dive, as said, was your fault for not smiting him where he would have died. It was actually extremely well played for him to be completely honest to q to that minion after his e immediately.

Third one I'll give you, but if Trundle didn't sidestep he woulda been fine.

All of these clips were when he was outrageously fed as well. I see a 25 stack mejais on him, along with a shit ton of AP, while you all are nowhere NEAR as fed as he is. If I make a video of me being 10/0 as Sejuani with 4 armor items vs a full ad team that all only have 2 items, does it make Sejuani OP? No, it's a bad example.

Don't get me wrong, Fizz can be bullshit, but lets try not to post shit where he's already INSANELY fed to do whatever he wants. That was your fault.

Sahn Uzal20 votes

The worst part is that people are building him bruiser again. item 3124 This item shouldn't be in the game. Nor should Fizz E IMO. summoner 31

Rossendale20 votes

The infuriating thing about laning against Fizz, especially top, is the fact that I always feel like I can't make a single mistake whilst Fizz can fuck up all he wants and not get punished for it. Bruiser Fizz top was the most frustrating shit ever, once he hit 6 you were basically fucked unless you had a dash.

shyv19 votes

this is disgusting

Sky of Smiles18 votes

1st dive: Somewhat clutch unless he knows his damage potential which he shows he does somewhat knows his limits on Fizz based off of 2nd and 3rd dive.

2nd dive: Fizz applied Grievous Wounds onto Jhin who was a split second off from getting his 4th AA Crit in that would have killed Fizz had he not opted to move around. The Sejuani also didn't use Skirmisher's Smite on Fizz which would have applied the extra damage to kill him even if Jhin misplayed vs a fully stacked Mejais AP Assassin. If Fizz had E out, he would have gotten killed by Jhin's 4th AA so in a way that Fizz played that correctly.

3rd dive: Trundle side stepped after his last Pillar of Ice.

SerBlaise12 votes

OP neglects the fact that Fizz was super fed. If you're gonna criticize at least show us HOW fizz got fed. Obviously looking at a 5-1 fizz versus a 0-0 bot lane (for example) is gonna make fizz look OP. But what really needs to be balanced is how EASY it is to get fed on fizz.

63536895_DEL9 votes

Its true that Fizz was fed, but a fed Fizz builds ap not tank items, so even though he was fed that doesn't excuse turrets being so weak that Fizz can take a full Sej combo under a turret and survive. I agree that it shouldn't be as easy as it is to get fed as Fizz though.

kaltenashes7 votes

i never saw a fed lux tank so many turret shots, they never build tank also

Sneakyy XD10 votes

1 - He was going to survive even if he didn't E. 2 - This one was due to poor turret target selection (and poor damage in general), which does indeed need to be fixed. 3 - As far as melee champions go, Fiora, Ekko, Riven, Nidalee, Lee Sin, and Akali would have done the same thing.

HandheldBrandon9 votes

I have never liked his E its always had way too low of a cooldown and does too much.

Its a gapcloser/Invul/Slow/nuke/Aggro breaker (in the case of turrets/minions Etc).

It is quite possibly one of the most overloaded skills in the game (Right up there with Lee sins Ulti.) and to top it off it has a stupid low cooldown and stupid high AP scaling and base damage with a pretty large slow with a good duration.

There is a reason Why Vlads pool has always had a pretty hefty cooldown.

yoniame4 votes

also at least it costs him hp, and lets dots pass trhough, and does lower damage

KING 5HARK2 votes

Fizz also takes dot and deathmark/duskblade damage Fizz needs his es damage to kill, wh not abuse the fact that he just blew his escape?

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

Fizz does not take delayed damage during E. Only DoTs so Duskblade, Death Mark, Time Bomb, Requiem, etc. all do nothing him during Playful Trickster.

Yosuke Apperu5 votes

No one can be punished though. I Had a tahm kench at level 7 tower dive me tanking 10 shots and living easily.

63536895_DEL36 votes

Tahm is one of the 20 you prioritize banning before Fizz.

Troll for Trump4 votes

Tahm is a tank. Fizz is a assassin. One is squishy and the other is not, yet the assassin lasts just as long under turret fire.

InHaruhiWeTrust2 votes

TahmKench isn't an assassin?!? someone should tell riot....

Sir Yamazuki4 votes

"Just cc him"

63536895_DEL4 votes

I knew someone was going to say it, either as a joke or being serious and stupid.

AMYS GRAVE5 votes

funny part is that sej did, and it didn't make a damn difference.

Fizz That's some nice cc you've got there. Be a shame if it -e- missed.

B1naryB0t4 votes

She even hit the CC. He just doesn't care.

Neomea5 votes

she failed her cc chain though, hard.

Saianna3 votes

What if his trollpole only reduced damage taken by 30%?

Ruin Lance5 votes

then fizz would be pretty damn bad

PePsiLemoNN3 votes

Not saying fizz is balanced or anything but why didn't you use your smite when he escaped with like 50 hp ?

63536895_DEL5 votes

Mistakes were made on my part I admit that, but even more were made by Fizz, the only difference is when Sej makes a mistake she can be punished, if Fizz makes a mistake he just presses E and gets off free..

Knoyle3 votes

In no way am I defending how ridiculous Fizz is but before you touch him can you do something about TahmKench Zed MasterYi Jax Yasuo XinZhao LeeSin

Shit, the only reason I play Fizz is Zed is in my games way too many times that it makes me sick and Fizz is one of the few AP champions that can potentially shit on him.

yoniame3 votes

i rarely meet TahmKench (though i played him a bit) aside of being boring, what is the problem with him? (also yasuo is easy to kite, cc, outdamage, and dodge, i think you could take him down from list)

Knoyle2 votes

TahmKench needs no damage items to actually do valid damage. So he can go FULL tank and still 100-0 anything that isn't a tank and then he still has his utility to fall back on.

And with games getting shorter and Yasuo being most deadly around mid game and a complete bully early game He's just downright a pain in the ass that snowballs so hard you might not even make it late enough in the game for him to fall off enough. Don't misunderstand I'm not saying he is straight overpowered but with itemization the way it is and his passive it's really annoying to deal with him and sometimes a chore to shut him down early.

Tahm IS stupid overpowered. There is no reason for a SUPPORT to do that much damage without actually BUILDING damage. The reason supports are supposedly being left only viable as support role while this guy is running around is absolute bull shit. At least Lulu needs the right comp to actually keep things together. If I've missed the mark on anything I welcome anyone to correct me.

yoniame2 votes

Hmm, but Tham doesn't really have cc and low-speed in all terms, Though yeah, i can imagine he is probably annoying while tossing himself to enemy carries face and q-ing them. Lulu in her current state is pretty bad both in her ap and tank build, i would be happier if she would be a mage rather than adc-meta abuser life-jacket as she is now.

Knoyle1 votes

I'm quite sure EATING the carry and dragging him off to god knows where counts as CC. You LITERALLY have just removed the biggest problem in the teamfight with this. Also last i checked, items that negate/reduce debuffs like lowering ms help with his mobility issues after having eaten someone.

Champion Skin2 votes

Well then again how was Tahm able to move up into melee range and auto the ADC 1-3 times (+1-2 Q's) to use W at them in a teamfight when he has no mobility... If getting into melee range was that easy Tryndamere and Udyr would be so absurdly broken champions (they have higher damage and more mobility while still being hard to kill) not to mention of course Nasus... which builds full tank and has a lot of damage... but because of him being melee with no mobility he often has a hard time using that damage

KING 5HARK5 votes

Udyr would be so absurdly broken

do i even need to comment on that?

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