"Quinn and Valor"

Baron Von Bangin·Nov 3, 2015·6 votes·857 views

"To all the players upset that they cannot turn into Valor and fight anymore, I am sorry that that was so important to you as far as playing the champion goes, but that aspect of these changes is just not going to change. Truly, I'm very sorry if that ruins the champion for you, but I'd prefer to be forthcoming about the fact that it's not going to change than leave you hanging waiting for an answer forever. I hope you can find enjoyment eventually in this new version of the champion, or that there is another champion out there that can give you a similar feeling to the previous version of Quinn, but if not, I understand."

TL;DR "We know Quinn and Valor's signature ability was tag team, but fuck you."

Wow, thanks. Fantastic rework.

22 Comments

JustMyBassCannonNov 3, 20157 votes

Turning into a bird wasn't what made me enjoy playing Quinn, so I'm okay with this change.

Roaming, harassing, jumping in and out of combat, and generally being the monkey running around on their shoulders is what makes Quinn fun. And being able to roam better is awesome. Not to mention having the execute moved to a more frequently usable (and higher-damage) skill and getting a second passive marker. Damage output goes way up.

BoomerangbroNov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Turning into a bird wasn't what made me enjoy playing Quinn, so I'm okay with this change.

Roaming, harassing, jumping in and out of combat, and generally being the monkey running around on their shoulders is what makes Quinn fun. And being able to roam better is awesome. Not to mention having the execute moved to a more frequently usable (and higher-damage) skill and getting a second passive marker. Damage output goes way up.

are you kidding. She's trash in her current state. Skystike dmg is non-existent. Her ult takes forever to use and will only be used in going back to lane. Q is wonky and is currently bugged (I think). The damage is ok, but has no utility. W is still boring. E is the only good skill.

Basically her power moved into her passive, which isn't a good thing.

JustMyBassCannonNov 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

are you kidding. She's trash in her current state. Skystike dmg is non-existent.

Was it ever not?

Realistically, tell me of any time that you killed a champion with Skystrike and you couldn't have done the same with a single basic attack.

Her ult takes forever to use and will only be used in going back to lane.

Or, y'know, going to other lanes. Catching up to team fights. Roaming to plant wards. Pretty much any time that you need mobility.

Q is wonky and is currently bugged (I think). The damage is ok, but has no utility.

Blind is a near-worthless bit of utility in the first place. Frankly, I'm surprised it still exists.

W is still boring.

Because every ability on every champion is super-exciting, right?

E is the only good skill.

Possibly the most interesting, but unless you haven't the brain cells to rub together, you should be able to recognize the strengths of her kit.

Basically her power moved into her passive, which isn't a good thing.

Worthless things were shaved from her kit to increase the effectiveness of her harass-and-poke playstyle and make her better at roaming.

Baron Von BanginNov 3, 20154 votes

It's about thematics. It's about the fact that they're taking away a main component from a champion. It's like giving Jax a real weapon. It's like taking away Taric's gems. Sure, fine, they might be more powerful but you're messing around with the original draw and design of a character. It's fucked up.

JustMyBassCannonNov 3, 20153 votes

Except, again--and I know it's personal bias--thematically, it doesn't really make sense to suddenly turn into a bird.

Suddenly, the falconer just disappears and is replaced with her bird, which, despite being about as threatening-looking as a Wizard's familiar, has the same level of power and damage as she does.

That sort of tag team makes sense in wrestling, not hunting.

Baron Von BanginNov 3, 20153 votes

The whole concept behind Quinn and Valor was a dual champion. Now they've gone and made Valor a tool. He had his own icon when you switched to him. He had his own name in chat when you typed in chat.

The whole concept behind them was that you'd get to play both. You'd get to be the two in one champ. Everything else was just tacked on to try and sell that thematic. riot didn't sit down and say "Gawsh, let's make a champ that jump around a lot!" or "We need a champ that bullies the fuck outta top lane." It was the dual, working together, being BOTH of them as a champion, aspect. Now they're taking it away. It doesn't make sense. It's dumb. I don't like it.

JustMyBassCannonNov 3, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Von Bangin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atXK4zAy,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T07:04:25.893+0000)

The whole concept behind Quinn and Valor was a dual champion.

When was that ever true?

No, shut up, stop. Sit down. Think.

From the beginning, Quinn and Valor have been a partnership, not a duality.

They are not Jayce. They are not Nidalee. They are not Elise. That is a dual champion. A champion whose design is to switch between two different playstyles is a duality.

Now they've gone and made Valor a tool. He had his own icon when you switched to him. He had his own name in chat when you typed in chat.

Yes, they had easter eggs for Valor, because Riot likes easter eggs. Why else would you think the game would be littered with references to Everquest, Touhou, Mario, DBZ, Warhammer and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, just to name a few? Because they like putting in those easter eggs.

The whole concept behind them was that you'd get to play both. You'd get to be the two in one champ. Everything else was just tacked on to try and sell that thematic. riot didn't sit down and say "Gawsh, let's make a champ that jump around a lot!" or "We need a champ that bullies the fuck outta top lane." It was the dual, working together, being BOTH of them as a champion, aspect. Now they're taking it away. It doesn't make sense. It's dumb. I don't like it.

The whole concept behind them was, is and will be a Ranger and her devoted companion. They work together, using similar tactics to set up and take down their target. They are always working together.

Pre-rework, her Q is Valor blinding her enemies as she closes in. Post-rework, Valor is going in for the kill, and if he doesn't take them down, Quinn follows up.

Her W is the morale boost of her following up Valor's attacks (her passive marks), and the active is Valor scoping out the nearby area.

Her E is Quinn mimicking Valor, both as a combat tactic and as a signal for Valor to follow up her strike.

So tell me, summoner. Why is it that Valor giving her a lift instead of taking her place "ruins" the character?

Baron Von BanginNov 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

When was that ever true?

No, shut up, stop. Sit down. Think.

Wow. No? Just because I have a differing opinion from you doesn't mean I haven't "sat down to think about it." Don't be a twat.

From the beginning, Quinn and Valor have been a partnership, not a duality.

They are not Jayce. They are not Nidalee. They are not Elise. That is a dual champion. A champion whose design is to switch between two different playstyles is a duality.

No. Yous see, you're confusing "duality" with "stance changing." THey're a dual champion because they are literally a duo. Not because she can ult and switch a bird, but because they are LEague's first duo. Dont confuse my words and then make up your own shtick. I used the words "dual champion" because there are two.

Yes, they had easter eggs for Valor, because Riot likes easter eggs. Why else would you think the game would be littered with references to Everquest, Touhou, Mario, DBZ, Warhammer and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, just to name a few? Because they like putting in those easter eggs.

The whole concept behind them was, is and will be a Ranger and her devoted companion. They work together, using similar tactics to set up and take down their target. They are always working together.

And now they don't. Now she throws a bird. They don't switch, Valor doesn't come in to help with the fight he's a taxi now. He's a pet now. He's not the other half of the champion duo. Now he's pix. That's weak.

Pre-rework, her Q is Valor blinding her enemies as she closes in. Post-rework, Valor is going in for the kill, and if he doesn't take them down, Quinn follows up.

Great. Never said I gave a shit that the blind was gone.

Her W is the morale boost of her following up Valor's attacks (her passive marks), and the active is Valor scoping out the nearby area.

Her E is Quinn mimicking Valor, both as a combat tactic and as a signal for Valor to follow up her strike.

So tell me, summoner. Why is it that Valor giving her a lift instead of taking her place "ruins" the character?

Becasue now Valor is a tool. Valor is not on equal stand as Quinn as a champion. They are Quin and Valor. Not Quinn with help from Valor. It the two of them, switch out and both coming to the fight.

You seem to like to twist my words though. I never said "AGGH GOD NOW HER THEME IS RUINED!" I said, "It's about thematics. It's about the fact that they're taking away a main component from a champion. It's like giving Jax a real weapon. It's like taking away Taric's gems. Sure, fine, they might be more powerful but you're messing around with the original draw and design of a character. It's fucked up." So y'know. Whatever.

JustMyBassCannonNov 3, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Von Bangin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atXK4zAy,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T14:49:49.796+0000)

Wow. No? Just because I have a differing opinion from you doesn't mean I haven't "sat down to think about it." Don't be a twat.

To phrase it with absolutely no emotion; think before you make a knee-jerk response to this question.

Most people taking that sort of question immediately take that challenge as an attack instead of a question.

No. You see, you're confusing "duality" with "stance changing." THey're a dual champion because they are literally a duo. Not because she can ult and switch a bird, but because they are LEague's first duo. Dont confuse my words and then make up your own shtick. I used the words "dual champion" because there are two.

Except they are two fighting as one. They are not a "dual champion" as they are not two separate bodies (which doesn't exist in League), and they are not a duality. They are a team.

And now they don't. Now she throws a bird. They don't switch, Valor doesn't come in to help with the fight he's a taxi now. He's a pet now. He's not the other half of the champion duo. Now he's pix. That's weak.

Pix is pretty much the other half of Lulu, so I don't get how that's "weak."

Great. Never said I gave a shit that the blind was gone.

Never said you did either.

Because now Valor is a tool. Valor is not on equal stand as Quinn as a champion. They are Quinn and Valor. Not Quinn with help from Valor. It the two of them, switch out and both coming to the fight.

You seem to like to twist my words though. I never said "AGGH GOD NOW HER THEME IS RUINED!" I said, "It's about thematics. It's about the fact that they're taking away a main component from a champion. It's like giving Jax a real weapon. It's like taking away Taric's gems. Sure, fine, they might be more powerful but you're messing around with the original draw and design of a character. It's fucked up." So y'know. Whatever.

What did I twist? I'm pretty damn sure I interpreted what you said properly. You're complaining about the thematics, but literally the only part of her theme that has changed is that, instead of Valor fighting on his own (which does not make sense), Valor gives Quinn a ride.

Quinn is literally almost never fighting without Valor's help. So, again, why is it so freaking detrimental to thematics for Quinn and Valor to actually team up for her ultimate, instead of swap out?

lightdragoon88Nov 3, 20152 votes

Their theme was working together. Not replacing one with the other and them never working together.

I find the new ult to fit "Quinn and Valor" much better because it is both of them working together.

KitsunéNov 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Their theme was working together. Not replacing one with the other and them never working together.

I find the new ult to fit "Quinn and Valor" much better because it is both of them working together.

Did you say Quinn and Valor? Who is that? Did you mean quinn and discount heroes of the storm mount?

SorryBoysImLesNov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Turning into a bird wasn't what made me enjoy playing Quinn, so I'm okay with this change.

Roaming, harassing, jumping in and out of combat, and generally being the monkey running around on their shoulders is what makes Quinn fun. And being able to roam better is awesome. Not to mention having the execute moved to a more frequently usable (and higher-damage) skill and getting a second passive marker. Damage output goes way up.

Except roaming is the only thing you can do with her now. There's no more jumping in and out of combat as she has no CC or MS steroids out of her ult.

And good luck getting into range to use Skystrike. Anyone with a single ranged ability or attack is just going to knock her out of it, so unless Skystrike has a 500+ range now. As for melee characters..No blind = they're going to make Quinn eat sh*t.

She literally has absolutely no engage now outside of "try to ult in and hope my enemy doesn't have a spec of intelligence to just drop me out of my ult and walk away."

She's never going to have mobility when it matters now. And with Homeguards being free with S6 too, her "get back to the fight" potential is mediocre at best.

As for the tag-team thing, if it makes no sense thematically in the game or for hunters: Get rid of Kindred, and don't make champions based on tag-team mechanics.

JustMyBassCannonNov 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Except roaming is the only thing you can do with her now. There's no more jumping in and out of combat as she has no CC or MS steroids out of her ult.

Her E still has the dash-interrupt thing going. Also has a 50% slow now.

Also, are you seriously going to suggest that Blind was a valid CC?

And good luck getting into range to use Skystrike. Anyone with a single ranged ability or attack is just going to knock her out of it, so unless Skystrike has a 500+ range now.

Yeah, it's not like having +70/100/130% MS is going to make it easy to avoid incoming fire or anything.

As for melee characters..No blind = they're going to make Quinn eat sh*t.

Yeah, it's not like she has a "stay the fuck away" button. [glances at E]

She literally has absolutely no engage now outside of "try to ult in and hope my enemy doesn't have a spec of intelligence to just drop me out of my ult and walk away."

Again, how many times am I going to have to point out "Quinn's E is still a thing."

She's never going to have mobility when it matters now. And with Homeguards being free with S6 too, her "get back to the fight" potential is mediocre at best.

Yeah, because she's never going to need roaming power outside of recalling, then returning to the lane, right?

Oh, wait, no, being able to roam from anywhere is actually pretty useful.

As for the tag-team thing, if it makes no sense thematically in the game or for hunters: Get rid of Kindred, and don't make champions based on tag-team mechanics.

Wow, you know just how to take what I said out of context and twist it to pretend it gives you any leverage. You sound like you need to learn the rules of a debate before trying to win one.

I said that the swap out style of tag team is not fitting to hunters. But you apparently can't read, so I bolded the important part just for you.

Also, edit just to clarify, Kindred, like Quinn and Valor, are a partnership.

Mister MackeyNov 3, 20152 votes

I honestly just want a champion like HoTS's Rexxar. They took the tag team idea and made it pretty beautiful to work with. This new version of Quinn doesn't appeal to me. And puts valor in the back seat. Lamb and wolf are a better version of a tag team than this mess that will be quinn.

CasterGilgameshNov 3, 20151 votes

Explain that guy how do they excute him?

CasterGilgameshNov 3, 20151 votes

I actually enjoyed playing Quin when she came out and wished they capitalized on Valor more it's Quin And valor Not Quin with a little valor in the mix

JustMyBassCannonNov 4, 20151 votes

The thing about Quinn and Valor is that, while you are only in full control of Quinn, Valor is helping her with almost literally everything she does. The one thing that Valor doesn't affect is Quinn's basic attacks on unmarked targets.

CasterGilgameshNov 4, 20151 votes

they are a team of course she will need help the way riot wants it on pbe forces valor as a mere pet and we all know valor is more important than that

JustMyBassCannonNov 4, 20151 votes

Valor carrying Quinn, as opposed to replacing Quinn, somehow "demotes" him.

I really do not get this logic. No one has come up with a coherent explanation for it.

CasterGilgameshNov 4, 20151 votes

because now valor feels more like an accessory while when he replaces quinn he feels like his own characters? what is so hard to get?

JustMyBassCannonNov 4, 20152 votes

Valor is a part of the character. Not his own character, a part of the character. Of Quinn and Valor. Two fighting as one. A team.

lightdragoon88Nov 4, 20151 votes

They are a team that works together. Not replacing one with the other.