Oh cool another hyper mobile, high burst assassin that feels unfair to play against

we havent met·Jun 30, 2019·6 votes·2,149 views

Why pick mages amirite? Like legit, She has the LOWEST CD dashes for every assassin in the game. Her all in potential feels like talons lv 2, at level 2. Like holy fucking shit riot are you kidding me? What was the purpose of making an even more annoying akali 2.0. I swear to fucking god. They wont give mages that desperately need it AN ACTUAL BUFF. But they'll release champs like this bc its FUN AND EXCITING TO WATCH!!!

22 Comments

sîñJun 30, 20196 votes

i just don't like that she can lay down that stealth shit so often. that's all

boricCentaur1Jun 30, 20195 votes

On average mages are better then assassins that is just a fact.

Also the ONLY class that should care about champions have top much mobility is adcs and no one else since they rely on kiting to live. Like learn to hit skill shot and there your mobility problem solved.

Like wtf is your problem since you act like riot is always making assassins or champion with a lot of mobility THEY'RE NOT most new champions are FUCKING MAGES the last time there was a new assassin that played like a assassin(since pyke doesn't do that especially since solo lane pyke was killed) was kayn a champion that 80% of the time doesn't go assassin.

Like jesus the level of bs in BOTH the mage and assassin communities is astonishing since they both say the same shit with no real arguments.

SEKAIJun 30, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Like learn to hit skill shot and there your mobility problem solved.

So good aim is the solution to mobility, never mind the fact mobility was conceptualised and for all of history has been utilised as a counter to aiming?

Next you'd be telling me training snipers with superhuman accuracy is the golden solution to fighter jets that race through the sky at thousands of kilometers per hour.

Only morons believe "learn to hit skillshot" is worth any damn in the discussion of mobility.

It's also kind of funny how the players falling victim to opponent's mobility somehow needs to exert not just more, but FAR more effort to defend themselves by being perfect (or close to) in aiming their defensive abilities, than the said opponent who only needs to press a button to get close or get away without effort (and with how broken League is designed and balanced, mobility usually comes cheaper in resource cost and CD than CC too, so it's really just a matter of inevitability before mobile champs eat you alive by literal definition, even if you played completely perfectly as an immobile champ). But I guess in your head, this interaction is entirely balanced. Just like how a guy with a knife and their opponent with a gun is perfectly balanced, given the guy holding the knife just needs to git gud and be a medieval war god to win against a gun holder who only needs to know how to raise their arm at the general direction of the other guy and press the trigger, so it's completely k amirite?

So much for the people who abuse mobility champs constantly believing themselves being the "playmaker", while they all seemingly agree that it is the victim defending themselves from the mobile champ should take the burden of making plays than the said mobile champ. That's some cognitive dissonance shit right there.

we havent metJun 30, 20191 votes

SO MUCH THIS LMAO

boricCentaur1Jun 30, 20193 votes

This is one of the most bs things I have read. How does mobility counter aiming? You can see when a champion gets ms or dashes. If a champion uses mobility to dodge guess what THEY HAVE NO MOBILITY.

If akali press e to dodge then you made her waste her engage and can safely poke, if akali press e on you most mages have to time to cc her and damage her.

Stop talking out of your ass and THINK. Also love that you have no proof.

SEKAIJun 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This is one of the most bs things I have read. How does mobility counter aiming? You can see when a champion gets ms or dashes. If a champion uses mobility to dodge guess what THEY HAVE NO MOBILITY.

If akali press e to dodge then you made her waste her engage and can safely poke, if akali press e on you most mages have to time to cc her and damage her.

Stop talking out of your ass and THINK. Also love that you have no proof.

????

"How does mobility counter aiming?"

How the fuck does it not?

Tell me, are you easier to aim at when you're on your feet running or driving in a car/bike speeding at 100km/h?

Do you seriously believe Neo dodging bullets by leaning backwards after they're already fired and wiggling with his arms open wide is the actual counter to aiming? Please.

......

Also, guess what, if a champion only has 1 single mobility ability, THEY ARE NOT MOBILE. Do you believe Urgot is a "mobile" champion?

And funny how you instantly bring up Akali, as if using out her E is the end of her mobility.

Bitch please. She has 3 individual instances (or is it 4?) of MS steroids, where one of her MS steroids also gives her invisibility just to make sure you can't hit her with skillshots; and guess what, she still has her E which could be used in BOTH directions (this makes it extra ironic where you treat as if she could only pick between either engage or disengage. That's wrong. Because casting E does both at once, given she backdashes WHILE throwing out a Lee Q on steroid where the marks work globally because reasons); R that gives her TWO extra dashes; and that's not counting the fact she has a slow on her Q (and one of the dashes in R stuns, too, because fuck you) for some godly reason so if she actually runs out of mobility in some special circumstances she could still just CC you herself too so it's not like you could just get away from her once she's out of mobility; and she still has a Flash and rushes Gunblade too so let's not also forget them.

What, don't tell me you also believe everyone has 0 CD skillshots for hard CCs, or that you think mobility actually comes at higher cost and CD than CCs in this forsaken game? Please don't tell me that any of those 2 are among your core tenet. I would be very sad.

Next you'd probably tell me that it's my fault that I didn't bring in an equally canerously mobile champ when I'm up against Akali, which would completely flip your previous argument of "just land your skillshots" out of the window but obviously, you don't give a shit. And guess what, THAT'S THE PROBLEM! That's why mobility creeping even happens, and it has no solution without things like a lock-on hard CC, which the abusers of mobility are completely against and have been lobbying for years to remove them from the game, to very successful extents; because they know that's the actual counter weight to mobility, the guaranteed CCs that can stop them at their tracks.

..........

Maybe you should take your own laughable advice and "THINK". It's even more laughable that you claim I have no proof before proceeding to argue none of the actual and legitimate arguments I brought up, and brought up your own arguments that are just hilariously false.

boricCentaur1Jun 30, 20191 votes

This post could be summarized by just saying LEARNING THE GAME IS TOO HARD REEEE MAKE IT EASIER. MS is shit again you can VERY clearly see when a champion has it and it is not a random amount you if you play the game you know the amount and you play around that. Like jhin can get a lot of ms does that mean he is hard to kill FUCK NO he is one of the easiest adcs to kill in the game.

Like "MS steroids also gives her invisibility just to make sure you can't hit her with skillshots" this is proof you just want the game to be easy like fuck off and learn you know akali gets ms and you KNOW how much it is FUCKING adjust to it. Do you actually play the game since you sound like you never seen akali since all you did was listed off stuff without you know REASONS. Like you act like the e doesn't work like I said it did but you give no real reasons like "could be used in BOTH directions" this is not a reason you is you not understand the FUCKING GAME there is a short window that akali can use if akali uses to dodge it probably did not hit ANYTHING.

Like god again give a reason not bs like it TOO HARD no that's not a reason that is the player being bad.

SEKAIJun 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This post could be summarized by just saying LEARNING THE GAME IS TOO HARD REEEE MAKE IT EASIER. MS is shit again you can VERY clearly see when a champion has it and it is not a random amount you if you play the game you know the amount and you play around that. Like jhin can get a lot of ms does that mean he is hard to kill FUCK NO he is one of the easiest adcs to kill in the game.

Like "MS steroids also gives her invisibility just to make sure you can't hit her with skillshots" this is proof you just want the game to be easy like fuck off and learn you know akali gets ms and you KNOW how much it is FUCKING adjust to it. Do you actually play the game since you sound like you never seen akali since all you did was listed off stuff without you know REASONS. Like you act like the e doesn't work like I said it did but you give no real reasons like "could be used in BOTH directions" this is not a reason you is you not understand the FUCKING GAME there is a short window that akali can use if akali uses to dodge it probably did not hit ANYTHING.

Like god again give a reason not bs like it TOO HARD no that's not a reason that is the player being bad.

Why do you focus only on MS? The problem isn't MS itself and I never sad it is; since it's not like I'm bitching about Jhin or Garen being too mobile or some shit.

It's the fact nonsense like Akali (an example YOU BROUGHT UP YOURSELF, which you did so by pretending her only mobility option is E, which is just flat out false) who has multiple independent MS steroid, on top of stealth, and multiple dashes (4 dashes of two 2-co-dependent dashes, but they're all free directional, and one of which allows for a ranged tag that translate to a global dash), and CCs of her own just to rub it in too. We're not talking about A mobility or utility, we're talking about OVERLOADED mobility and utility here.

No amount of "learning the game" would change the fact mobility's counter is guaranteed CC, which has been systematically removed out of the game for the last many years which has resulted in mobility being unchecked at the lack of their predators, and thus resulting in mobility creeping that deepens by the day.

And no amount of "learning the game" would change the fact if a champion is FAR more mobile than you are and has just as much, often actually even more, raw stats than you do, you just lose due to the sheer unfairness in the design ie bullshit and blatantly unbalanced "designs".

You can deny all you want with all sorts of non-argument you've conjured up over this talk that's seeping into all kinds of deflection and goalpost moving, but it won't change anything from those 2 facts.

Coming back to the original argument. Skillshots do not stop mobility, they never did and they never will be its counter. Guaranteed CC, such as a lock-on CC, however is. This is for the same reasons why anti-air missiles are GUIDED to chase jets to the best of its programmed ability (which may or may not involve human assistance, but is primarily controlled by its auto-pilot systems), because snipers just wouldn't fucking work for jets. It's such a simple logic, one that you have such a hard time to grasp for some reason.

Before the day the likes of lock-on CC makes its official return to the game, mobility will continue to be a balance problem akin to an invasive species without local predators (or rather, a certain species becoming a pest due to the extinction of their former predators, possibly from human reasons such as deforestation. Sound familiar?).

we havent metJun 30, 20191 votes

On average mages are better then assassins that is just a fact.

The top 10 mid laners on op.gg are 70% assassins but ok

Also the ONLY class that should care about champions have top much mobility is adcs and no one else since they rely on kiting to live. Like learn to hit skill shot and there your mobility problem solved.

Imagine thinking skillshot reliant mages do well into highly mobile champions. Sure jan

Like wtf is your problem since you act like riot is always making assassins or champion with a lot of mobility THEY'RE NOT most new champions are FUCKING MAGES the last time there was a new assassin that played like a assassin(since pyke doesn't do that especially since solo lane pyke was killed) was kayn a champion that 80% of the time doesn't go assassin.

Pyke plays like an assassin are you kidding. Meanwhile the new mages for the most part got nerfed into the ground (yuumi being the exception there, dw i think shes just as antifun)

I'm so tired of silver players acting as if hyper mobile champs with low cooldowns are healthy. It's not bias. My contention was champs like syndra get pity mana buffs. Meanwhile champs like qiyana come out and have high burst and high spammable mobility

boricCentaur1Jun 30, 20191 votes

Op.gg is a bs website run by people that DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MATH WORKS. All it is good for looking players. So the top 10 champions in diamond have 5 mages and 3 assassins wait in the top 20 most played champions in diamond ONLY 7 are assassins. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/middle/diamond

Morg a skill shot mage COUNTERS ASSASSINS, lux a skill shot mages also does well vs assassins, ahri basically all skill shots goes even with most assassins, zoe does well vs assassins and is very reliant on skill shots.

Who are this skill shot mages that can't do anything vs assassins fucking xerath the guy WHO IS SUPPOSED TO GET COUNTERED BY ASSASSINS.

You saying pyke plays like most assassins shows you don't care about reasons you just want to rant about nothing. Pyke is team reliant, can't kill anyone unless low, can't carry, can only snowball if his carry is also snowballing like no he is not a normal assassin he is a assassin in the sense that he can take someone out of a fight with cc and execute while having great roaming power.

Mages are fine deal with it.

SEKAIJun 30, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Op.gg is a bs website run by people that DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MATH WORKS. All it is good for looking players.

OP.GG doesn't give a shit about math? Because all it does is collecting numbers off Riot's API and put them into a graph.

So the top 10 champions in diamond have 5 mages and 3 assassins wait in the top 20 most played champions in diamond ONLY 7 are assassins. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/middle/diamond

In the top 20,

7-8 mages (Ryze, Vlad, TF, Ori, Lux, Zoe, Malz, and MAYBE Neeko)
8 assassins (Zed, Ahri, Kat, Talon, Akali, LB, Kass, Fizz)
3 fighters/skirmishers (Yasuo, Irelia, Sylas)
1 marksman (Corki)

There are only 7-8 mages too. Nice deceptive framing there. Who are you trying to trick here, I wonder?

Morg a skill shot mage COUNTERS ASSASSINS, lux a skill shot mages also does well vs assassins, ahri basically all skill shots goes even with most assassins, zoe does well vs assassins and is very reliant on skill shots.

~~ Who are this skill shot mages that can't do anything vs assassins fucking xerath the guy WHO IS SUPPOSED TO GET COUNTERED BY ASSASSINS.~~ (more on this later - SEKAI)

Morg is strong against assassins because of her E and R, which clockblocks most assassination attempts and obviously, they're not skillshots. Her Q's effectiveness runs out the instant she starts roaming, and retreat to being mostly a zoning tool and peeling tool for enemies who're ALREADY at the backline, for a reason.
Lux is bullshit because her EQ combo are almost undodgeable and usually guarantees a free ulti hit, which instantly kills most squishier champs in the game.
Ahri is only ever strong because she could dash to the opponent's face and land a charm at point blank that the opponent can not dodge from, before she instantly kills them after they're charmed.
Zoe's broken because her Q is an AoE so even if you dodge it you'd still most likely be hit if it strikes the things next to you (such as your ally minions or ally champs), as well as her W being just some of the broken-est ability in the entire game, alongside her E, which is a bunkers 4 second CC that goes out of its way to actually reward Zoe for missing it as well (alongside its MANY other problems, especially at her launch which balance team had to strip away 2/3 of the ability shortly after launch because it was completely broken to a tee). Oh, Zoe also has the problem of R into someone's face to E them in the face that they can't possibly dodge from.

I am not sure why you have to constantly convince yourself that skillshots beat assassins, when clearly, that is not the case. And your examples quickly turn out of be false when all of them are strong against assassins precisely because they do not give enemies options, often unfairly so via catch-22 esque designs that go "here I have a skillshot so theoretically you could dodge, but I also do this to make sure it is all but guaranteed to land", and not because somehow skillshots is the solution to assassins.

You saying pyke plays like most assassins shows you don't care about reasons you just want to rant about nothing. Pyke is team reliant, can't kill anyone unless low, can't carry, can only snowball if his carry is also snowballing like no he is not a normal assassin he is a assassin in the sense that he can take someone out of a fight with cc and execute while having great roaming power.

Mages are fine deal with it.

Pyke is so team reliant he became a solo laner in pro scene. He doesn't even need to wait until enemies are that low because his ulti works on FLAT HP THRESHOLD, scales on THREE DIFFERENT STATS (level, bonus AD, and lethality; so it's not like it's 3 oddballs stats that don't mesh together well since one of them has nothing to do with items and just ensures a continuous scaling because this shit apparently needs for some reason, and 2 others are all acquired by spamming typical AD assassins items), and IGNORES SHIELD. You can very easily be executed by a Pyke at half health if you're on a squisher champion.

Also never mind the fact he can carry by chainkilling the entire enemy team AND without any issues of gold sinking because he OUTRIGHT DUPLICATES KILL GOLD for his teams, too.

And he's impossible to kill too, given his W and E make sure that's the case.

So Pyke is in a situation that's the worst that it could happen when it comes to game balance. He's a low priority champ that has the presence of a hypercarry. He has to be taken down immediately or risk him coming in along and deletes everyone off the map (which isn't even easy to do given his extreme sustain), but killing him is also simultaneously futile because he exists to scale his teammates and he doesn't come online when the fight is past mid-point. That's just the worst design he could possibly be.

I mean, why do even think Pyke is such a popular support that's next to impossible to balance?

Who are this skill shot mages that can't do anything vs assassins fucking xerath the guy WHO IS SUPPOSED TO GET COUNTERED BY ASSASSINS.

I single this out from the earlier quote because I think you nearly had an epiphany that skillshot isn't what's keeping assassins at bay. Whatever happens to you trying to defend that his 1 and only skillshot stun should all he needs to stop the mobile assassins getting to his face to kill him.

And you'd be right, it isn't. Skillshot doesn't stop mobility, precisely because it's unreliable.

Kinda curious why your train of thoughts stopped immediately after typing out this line, lmao. Never mind, I already know so I'll spare you the embarrassment here.

PimpStickNasusJun 30, 20193 votes

{quoted}

OP.GG doesn't give a shit about math? Because all it does is collecting numbers off Riot's API and put them into a graph.

In the top 20,

7-8 mages (Ryze, Vlad, TF, Ori, Lux, Zoe, Malz, and MAYBE Neeko)

8 assassins (Zed, Ahri, Kat, Talon, Akali, LB, Kass, Fizz)

3 fighters/skirmishers (Yasuo, Irelia, Sylas)

1 marksman (Corki)

Stopped reading there, not just cause of the massive post I don’t care about but because of how painful the bias is. How are you gonna say Neeko is “MAYBE” a mage? The fuck else is she? Then putting Ahri as assassin when she’s 100% without a doubt a mage.

SEKAIJun 30, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Stopped reading there, not just cause of the massive post I don’t care about but because of how painful the bias is. How are you gonna say Neeko is “MAYBE” a mage? The fuck else is she? Then putting Ahri as assassin when she’s 100% without a doubt a mage.

If Neeko is melee, she would be a jungler who functions similar to someone like Nunu (and Willump); just with less smiting and a significantly more broken root (and less Initial D'ing, but we don't talk about that so that it wouldn't trigger someone's PTSD).

The only major difference is that Neeko has ranged AA, which could've easily been melee and little would've changed for her outside of making sure the on-hit Neeko probably wouldn't be a thing. After all, she would always be a mid to melee range fighter regardless given how her kit is designed.

That's what sort of stops me from calling her a fully fledged mage, because her kit doesn't really work like one. BUT I STILL LIST HER AS ONE ANYWAY, so what's with the complaint?

......

Ahri has not been considered a mage for so long, thanks to the fact her kit and function is similar to someone like Talon in a few ways, and primarily used as an assassin by most of her players. Are you really that surprised about it like, just now, after Ahri has been unofficially classed as an assassin for at least 5-6 years?

Hell, LeBlanc is probably more of a mage than Ahri if you would just bother looking at her kit (at least after 6), and no one would argue against classifying the former as an assassin since that's her primary function. So what's with classifying Ahri as one?

boricCentaur1Jun 30, 20191 votes

Op.gg has a tier list but it's basically based off winrate which anyone that know anything about math and statistics would know is super wrong like really wrong like that is probably the worst statistic to use to make a tier list. That is what he was talking about.

Also you don't know what the difference between context and deceptive is lol. Why would I listed every the whole point was to disprove 70% of the top ten champions in mid are assassins the guy was claiming like you put ahri as a assassin talk about being deceptive lol.

Guy stop trying to reply to post you know nothing about like you missed basically all the context. THE GUY SAID SKILL SHOT MAGES SUCK VS ASSASSINS SO I LISTED A LOT OF THEM TO PROVE HIM WRONG. You want to know why they give 0 options because of SKILL SHOTS not anything else like name me the skill shot champions who are bad vs assassins since the majority of them are good vs them.

Then you prove that you don't play the game by basically saying I don't know how pyke works since every I said is super wrong. And "he's impossible to kill too, given his W and E make sure that's the case." Like this right here shows you have played vs pyke 0 times ms is shit escape that is a fact and his e will be in cooldown. Like you say pyke is next to impossible to balance when he has been balance for basically the whole season like WHAT??? he got changed for top lane pyke not support, support was fine that was why riot try to buff him to make up for that.

Xerath can lane fine vs most assassins the problem comes after since in team fights he has to stand and may not even have his stun up like again context matters.

Also "Kinda curious why your train of thoughts stopped immediately after typing out this line, lmao. Never mind, I already know so I'll spare you the embarrassment here." My train of thought did not end there that was about at 60% in my post so talk about being disingenuous.

Maybe actually play the game please.

SEKAIJun 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Op.gg has a tier list but it's basically based off winrate which anyone that know anything about math and statistics would know is super wrong like really wrong like that is probably the worst statistic to use to make a tier list. That is what he was talking about.

No one cares about the tier list on opgg. No one has cared, and no one will care. What people care about is the raw numbers which they come in spades, and they are usually on-point about their numbers, and that's why the site is popular.

It's you who place importance on a feature of the site no one cares about, and then proceed to diss the site on that basis. It's comedic.

Also you don't know what the difference between context and deceptive is lol. Why would I listed every the whole point was to disprove 70% of the top ten champions in mid are assassins the guy was claiming like you put ahri as a assassin talk about being deceptive lol.

Guy stop trying to reply to post you know nothing about like you missed basically all the context. THE GUY SAID SKILL SHOT MAGES SUCK VS ASSASSINS SO I LISTED A LOT OF THEM TO PROVE HIM WRONG. You want to know why they give 0 options because of SKILL SHOTS not anything else like name me the skill shot champions who are bad vs assassins since the majority of them are good vs them.

Then you prove that you don't play the game by basically saying I don't know how pyke works since every I said is super wrong. And "he's impossible to kill too, given his W and E make sure that's the case." Like this right here shows you have played vs pyke 0 times ms is shit escape that is a fact and his e will be in cooldown. Like you say pyke is next to impossible to balance when he has been balance for basically the whole season like WHAT??? he got changed for top lane pyke not support, support was fine that was why riot try to buff him to make up for that.

Xerath can lane fine vs most assassins the problem comes after since in team fights he has to stand and may not even have his stun up like again context matters.

Also "Kinda curious why your train of thoughts stopped immediately after typing out this line, lmao. Never mind, I already know so I'll spare you the embarrassment here." My train of thought did not end there that was about at 60% in my post so talk about being disingenuous.

Maybe actually play the game please.

None of those mages are strong against assassins precisely because they have skillshots, but often because they have UNFAIR "skillshots" that makes it hard and sometimes impossible to dodge. I explained this in my previous reply, I guess you just missed that. Or maybe you did read but still couldn't figure out that snipers aren't a counter to jets but guided missiles are, who knows.

And that's why Xerath sucks against assassins, because his skillshots or at least his E, is so fair as a skillshot no one gives a shit about it, and that's the reason why he can't effectively defend himself from people dashing to his face. This is something you SAID YOURSELF ("Who are this skill shot mages that can't do anything vs assassins fucking xerath the guy WHO IS SUPPOSED TO GET COUNTERED BY ASSASSINS."), that he is but ofc, when times is convenient, you just turn the table on yourself and claim that Well, ACKCHYUALLY, Xerath lanes just fine now.

And by "fine", you mean 30-40% lane kill rate (which equates to win rate of laning phase, especially in mid lane where there is no farming champs) against all mid lane assassins. Yeah, sure. Next you'd be telling me if a champ only has 30-40% win rate they're doing just fine.

But then again, you actually said that Pyke has been "balanced the whole season", while accusing me I supposedly don't know shit about the game. That's hilarious. Because not even the most diehard of Pyke fanboys and fangirls wouldn't go so far to say that Pyke has been balanced the whole season, and not even support Pyke one-tricks would say his supporting is balanced (because it isn't, thanks to his super sustain and gold duplication that is for some reason attached to his Darius-ulti-on-steroid), lmao. And no, the only thing that receives buff is hook's CD, everything else is nerf and more nerfs, for good reasons; because even someone as dumb as Riot when it comes to game balance knows Pyke is broken, and I just wish they can finally address his major issues of gold duplication and super sustain but ofc classic Riot would rather dance around a problem and not just fix it outright.

Oh boy and oh well.