If my conqueror nidalee with a teemo support who is 1/9 is holding the ff vote hostage. No, i wont be staying when the kills are 6 to 27. When they are all 3 levels up on us. It's a lost game and i am not gonna sit there and waste all of my time to be trolled. I refuse, sorry [sg-lulu] Downvote if u want tbh idrc.
Hotarµ21 votesDoes that situation suck? Of course.
Are there games where you should surrender? Yeah, probably.
Is it ever acceptable to AFK or leave? No, never.
When you're in queue and you press accept, you agree to play the game out until a Nexus explodes. You can try to justify it however you want but at the end of the day AFKing is wrong and against the rules.
If you want to keep AFKing, that's on you. Eventually you're just going to lose your account.
CytheGuy30 votesI mean in the end, what's more important? Upholding some arbitrary set of rules put into place to punish the trolls? Or your mental state? Sitting in a game where you are becoming a victim of a harmful ideology (never surrendur) or a victim of people who are abusing the system put into place (never leave no matter what even if the trolls are trolling) literally holds zero value for me or whoever is in the situation.
I don't care what Riot says, if I deem it healthier for me to just leave the game* then there's nothing they can do to stop me, and as long as I am making sure to put a good chunk of time between my games that I leave, the system probably won't think anything of it.
*I personally have not left a game in this manner in a long time, but I have gotten extremely close to that threshold in recent games.
Hotarµ9 votesI mean in the end, what's more important? Upholding some arbitrary set of rules put into place to punish the trolls? Or your mental state? Sitting in a game where you are becoming a victim of a harmful ideology (never surrendur) or a victim of people who are abusing the system put into place (never leave no matter what even if the trolls are trolling) literally holds zero value for me or whoever is in the situation.
Pushing through an extra 5-25 minutes in a game won't degrade your mental state to the point where it becomes problematic.
If you're consistently running into those games, play with a premade and try to regulate or limit your exposure to the game if it's that much of a detriment. Realistically speaking, a few of these games every now and then isn't going to severely damage your mentality or health.
I don't care what Riot says, if I deem it healthier for me to just leave the game* then there's nothing they can do to stop me, and as long as I am making sure to put a good chunk of time between my games that I leave, the system probably won't think anything of it.
If you do it consistently, you're going to receive punishments. If you do it sparingly, yeah, I doubt you'll receive any severe consequences.
Ultimately, my point is: Don't queue up for a game if you can't handle whatever is thrown at you. The overwhelming majority of games (90%+, probably more) end in about 30-40 minutes and if 20 minutes of that is enough to damage your mental health, you should probably limit your exposure to that game or multiplayer games in general.
If your team agrees to continue playing, you owe it to them to continue trying. If a duo is preventing the vote from passing, bite the bullet and play it out. It's unfortunate but that's the risk you run when you accept the queue.
There's zero reason to AFK. Two wrongs don't make a right.
HopeStartsWithU13 votesExcept, that there is nothing wrong with AFKing in such situations. You aren't putting anyone behind nor does it negatively impact the game because the game is already done for. The surrender vote is made so you can actually give up when the game seems unwinnable. The case OP described doesn't happen in 90% of the games but it doesn't mean other games aren't as tilting. Losing the game because your jungler fail smited baron will tilt a lot of people pretty hard too.
The whole "no matter what, don't leave your game" thing is doomed wrong because the rules say so. Morally, there is really nothing left to do in such a game anymore and I NEVER leave a game. No matter how bad a game was, I have never left it. But I actually do understand the OP instead of playing the fake good guy. I have been hold hostage enough in my games, to the point that I raged and got myself a chat restriction. I wish I would have just left the game instead.
Hotarµ10 votesExcept, that there is nothing wrong with AFKing in such situations. You aren't putting anyone behind nor does it negatively impact the game because the game is already done for.
This mentality is the biggest problem with our community. The game is not over until a Nexus explodes.
Does it suck to deal with some situations? Of course, I'm not a robot, there are plenty of games that I want to leave because my teammates are children or intentionally feeding.
But when you accept the queue, you're agreeing to play the game out until it's officially over, not because you're having a bad experience or a teammate makes a mistake. You don't get to pick and choose when to leave because the game isn't going your way, that's not how things work.
The surrender vote is made so you can actually give up when the game seems unwinnable.
Yeah, and when the overwhelming majority of your team can't get the vote to pass, you keep playing the game until it's officially over. No player has the power or the right to single-handedly decide the outcome of a game against the wishes of 3-4 other people.
The case OP described doesn't happen in 90% of the games but it doesn't mean other games aren't as tilting. Losing the game because your jungler fail smited baron will tilt a lot of people pretty hard too. The whole "no matter what, don't leave your game" thing is doomed wrong because the rules say so. Morally, there is really nothing left to do in such a game anymore and I NEVER leave a game. No matter how bad a game was, I have never left it. But I actually do understand the OP instead of playing the fake good guy. I have been hold hostage enough in my games, to the point that I raged and got myself a chat restriction. I wish I would have just left the game instead.
Nobody is saying that the game can't be tilting, we're saying that AFKing isn't the right option. Morally speaking, you shouldn't AFK because you're doing a disservice to yourself, Riot Games, the League community, the allies and the enemies on your team.
Nobody is saying you have to put on a show and continue to be openly optimistic, frankly I think that's a stupid thing to do. If you're tilted, forcing yourself into a false state of mind can do more harm than good. However, you should be able to focus on the win conditions of a game and stay constructive rather than giving up at the drop of a hat.
Liquidify4 votesYeah, and when the overwhelming majority of your team can't get the vote to pass, you keep playing the game until it's officially over. No player has the power or the right to single-handedly decide the outcome of a game against the wishes of 3-4 other people.
You say no player has the power or right to decide a game. The trolls/griefers who give up and start forcing their other 3/4 teammates that are locked into the game to AUTOMATICALLY lose regardless of anything beg to differ. I know you want to desperately uphold that sacred summoners code. but you should not expect anyone who’s queued up with the intention of winning to then sit through constant failed surrender votes and a guaranteed loss just because the rules say so. The rules also say you shouldn’t troll or grief but nothing has been done to combat that either.
I agree with op, I refuse to sit hostage in a video game meant for fun because some mental case gets off on ruining others experience.
Hotarµ6 votesYou say no player has the power or right to decide a game. The trolls/griefers who give up and start forcing their other 3/4 teammates that are locked into the game to AUTOMATICALLY lose regardless of anything beg to differ.
I meant it more literally in the sense that one person doesn't get to decide that a game is over when 3-4 other people disagree with that claim.
If your team doesn't want to surrender, you don't get to AFK. That's how things work, especially in a team game.
I know you want to desperately uphold that sacred summoners code
Let me stop you right there, because every single one of my responses on the matter has had more to it than just "It's against the rules!" I've provided plenty of alternative reasonings to discourage people from AFKing or at the very least explain how and why it is against the rules in the first place.
So with all due respect, go read what I said instead of trying to make it seem as if I just parrot the same response over and over.
but you should not expect anyone who’s queued up with the intention of winning to then sit through constant failed surrender votes and a guaranteed loss just because the rules say so.
Anyone who actually intends to win wouldn't give up at the drop of a hat like so many people do today.
You want to win? Play smart. Play games out to their full duration and focus on how you can scale to win teamfights or splitpush. Don't get discouraged because someone made a mistake or multiple.
But most importantly: You want to win? Stop AFKing.
The rules also say you shouldn’t troll or grief but nothing has been done to combat that either.
Except, you know, an entire ruleset and automated system based on punishing intentional feeders, flamers, AFKers, and trolls.
This is the part where you or someone else tries to tell me that Riot doesn't punish those players and then I refer you to any number of posts made on the Boards where they were punished, then ask that you provide a better solution because it couldn't possibly have been thought of before.
I agree with op, I refuse to sit hostage in a video game meant for fun because some mental case gets off on ruining others experience.
That's fine, you're free to leave whenever you want, but don't be surprised when you start tanking in rank, waiting 20+ minutes to get into a game, and potentially lose your account.
OgSc5 votesYou clearly dont understand that there are scenarios where, regardless of what you and ur team does, you lose right? In the op's statement, he had 2 out of 5 trolling. Thats 3 people who are under leveld verses 5 who are vastly ahead. ur not winning that. Also, "You shouldn't AFK because you're doing a disservice to yourself, Riot Games, the League community, the allies and the enemies on your team." 1. if anything, your doing a positive service to yourself since ur not forcing urself to deal with bull shit. 2. Who cares about chinesegames, they done many disservices to the player base in the past and present, 3. The league community is terrible who cares, they disservice players all the time by trolling/inting/griefing/afk'ing way too early, etc. 4. In op's case, if 3 out of 5 (and the 2 not voting 'yes' are trolling) ur doing a proper service by just afk'ing as it can help others realize to not even bother arguing w trolls who dont vote yes. 5. The enemy wants free lp, trolling is more of a disservice than afk'ing cuz of trolls the game was already a disservice since the start when nid and teemo trolled. Not to mention ur only really making a joke of urself for staying in the game when ur in such a huge disadvantage.
"But most importantly: You want to win? Stop AFKing." I agree w this when it comes to afk'ing 5 min early when ur botlane goes 0/2 but other lanes are doing fine. But when u have 2 trolls and everyone else wants to get out? Your delusional.
ModRowanstar17 votesThis mentality is the biggest problem with our community. The game is not over until a Nexus explodes.
Does it suck to deal with some situations? Of course, I'm not a robot, there are plenty of games that I want to leave because my teammates are children or intentionally feeding.
But when you accept the queue, you're agreeing to play the game out until it's officially over, not because you're having a bad experience or a teammate makes a mistake. You don't get to pick and choose when to leave because the game isn't going your way, that's not how things work.
Yeah, and when the overwhelming majority of your team can't get the vote to pass, you keep playing the game until it's officially over. No player has the power or the right to single-handedly decide the outcome of a game against the wishes of 3-4 other people.
Nobody is saying that the game can't be tilting, we're saying that AFKing isn't the right option. Morally speaking, you shouldn't AFK because you're doing a disservice to yourself, Riot Games, the League community, the allies and the enemies on your team.
Nobody is saying you have to put on a show and continue to be openly optimistic, frankly I think that's a stupid thing to do. If you're tilted, forcing yourself into a false state of mind can do more harm than good. However, you should be able to focus on the win conditions of a game and stay constructive rather than giving up at the drop of a hat.
Hello. I noticed the conversation and wanted to assist. I concur with your assessment that if a teammate makes a mistake or something of that sort, that AFKING is absolutely the wrong response.
However: I believe in the OPs case it was not a player making a mistake. It was multiple players being toxic, feeding and ruining the game ( causing an irreversible loss ) on purpose. Due to this, OP and his team were stuck in a losing game that was no longer fun due to trolls. I believe in this case leaving the game might be necessary as the match has been ruined for everyone. The focus of punishment should be on the toxic players rather than the victims as it seems the OP does not make a habir of leaving games.
Tldr: both sides are right: AFKING is against the rules, but sometimes necessary in extreme cases as long as its done sparingly. I dont encourage it but i understand why it was done.
DarthArchon4 votesMaybe talk to your boss about having something done to troll and feeder just like you punish shit talker in chat.
My opinion is that bad players lose way more game then shit talker yet you punish those dis proportionally with that mindset in the background that players "play bad" sometime when it should be clear. If you ranked, you know what you're doing about the game and you character. You have no clue?? get reported and ranked banned.
Fizzfood2 votesLosing the game because your jungler fail smited baron will tilt a lot of people pretty hard too.
Sorry I missed on that 50/50 y'all forced me into there. Sorry I didn't hit FF with you after.
No one's ever fended off a Baron buff before.
Top 5 reasons why I leave game featuring me:
1.) Only got 15 minutes so let's make this quick. 2.) FIRST BLOOD "GG lane open FF at 15." 3.)"You took 2CS!" 4.) /allchat "I wouldn't be 0 and 6 pre 10 if our idiot JG would gank me!" 5.) "SMITE FAIL JG DIFF"
Leaving games is dumb. Especially in low elo. The comeback potential is insane. You can save absolute gutter games with one solid play.
Sometimes you take the L but I always like to know I did my best to salvage it.
HopeStartsWithU1 votesDamn my guy, this was about things that can tilt you (jgl missing smite is just one out of many). Not about how bad junglers are lmao. I play a lot of jungle myself and I tilt too when I fail smite. Why you gotta concentrate on that one sentence, ripping it out of context for whatever reason?
Anyway, there is no comeback when 2 out of 5 people INTENTIONALLY (read OPs case again if you forgot) troll the game. There is no win condition. It's lost. Anyone in such a situation will agree. If you are 5v5 just losing by an inhib, NOBODY would FF in such a situation. OPs situation is a bit more extreme.
You kinda missed the point of the entire post, sorry bro, happens I guess.
Fizzfood2 votesDamn my guy, this was about things that can tilt you (jgl missing smite is just one out of many). Not about how bad junglers are lmao. I play a lot of jungle myself and I tilt too when I fail smite. Why you gotta concentrate on that one sentence, ripping it out of context for whatever reason?
Anyway, there is no comeback when 2 out of 5 people INTENTIONALLY (read OPs case again if you forgot) troll the game. There is no win condition. It's lost. Anyone in such a situation will agree. If you are 5v5 just losing by an inhib, NOBODY would FF in such a situation. OPs situation is a bit more extreme.
You kinda missed the point of the entire post, sorry bro, happens I guess.
BS I got screenshots of it in low elo. My team fed 68 kills. I contributed 8 of those deaths and carried as PANTHEON in a game that went 39 minutes which is well past where Panth begins to fall off.
Ęsdeath2 votesYou don't lose accounts for AFKing. You only get up to 20 minutes of low-priority queue. Nothing else.
Hotarµ5 votesYou don't lose accounts for AFKing. You only get up to 20 minutes of low-priority queue. Nothing else.
Incorrect, please don't spread misinformation.
It takes consistent offenses to receive a permanent ban for it, but yes, it is possible.
TrulyBland1 votesI could be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that afking is only bannable when used as a method for griefing, as opposed to afking because you no longer wish to play the game. For the record, I don't agree with OPs mentality, but I'm fairly certain that this kind of mentality was exactly what Riot thought to be more fittingly punished with LPQs. I mean, there has to be a reason why leaverbuster itself (to my knowledge) no longer hands out bans.
GatekeeperTDS14 votesHave I left games out of frustration before? Sure. Should I? Probably not. Am I proud of myself like you are for doing it? Nope.
Dukues3 votesHave I left games out of frustration before? Sure. Should I? Probably not. Am I proud of myself like you are for doing it? Nope.
Hey more wise advice from Gatekeeper! We are all so lucky here on the boards!
GatekeeperTDS2 votesYou are more than welcome to ignore everything I say. In fact, I encourage it.
Jack Eron4 votesHe chose to reduce the time he will waste. I think he can be proud, i would be proud as well. Instead playing for nothing with trolls until the 40. min, he is just afking and the enemy will end the game faster. Logical decision.
we havent met3 votesAh yes i should be so DISAPPOINTED in myself. Shame on me for losing a game that has 0% chance of a win and not wasting my time. Tsk. Whatever will i do with myself
GatekeeperTDS2 votesDrama drama drama.
I didn't say you should be disappointed in yourself, and I also said I've left games too. I said you shouldn't be proud of it.
The Ecdysiast13 votesThere is no justified reason for leaving.
That isn't my opinion, but it is how the punishment system functions. And we don't have the power to change it.
So, stay in the game. Or don't. Frankly you seem like the kind of person who shouldn't be playing a competitive team-focused game anyway, so it doesn't matter to me if you get banned.
Haze976 votes[deleted]
DuskDaUmbreon5 votesIf Darius refused you still needed literally only one other person.
And "Held hostage" lmfao.
Lęmon11 votesamen
SuchSwagSuchweed9 votesHonestly this is why I hate the "never give up" motto. Yes I do believe that some games you can come back and you can win, but when a game is 0-20 and the enemy has 2 inhibs 15 minutes in and have multiple turrets and dragons, I don't want to play and I don't want to deal with that one guy who is saying "we scale better wait till late game" when the enemy is just going to steam roll us for the next 5 minutes or so till they end. I just hate that people don't see that the game is no way winnable and they just refuse to surrender. I'm all out for a match which is 0-10 but your team has more objectives and such, but I'm not going to waste my time on obivous stomps.
we havent met1 votesSo much this! Like its very rare for me to give up hope but like cmon. 22 kils apart and the enemy has every turret and objective xd
Lemexis9 votesYeah I never left a game or went AFK but I'm actually contemplating doing it in this type of game. Maybe they should fine tune the system so that's past 20 minutes, only 3 people have to say yes for it to work if a certain number of criterias are met (like difference in kills over a certain threshold, same for difference in objectives, that sort of thing).
And I also hate people with the "never surrender" mentality. Like, do they actually enjoy getting totally stomped without being able to do anything at all ? Do they enjoy wasting their time ?
Starcraft243ver2 votesI've won to many games in which 3 of my teammates wanted to surrender to let you ruin my games by surrendering before we can win.
Lemexis1 votesYeah it happens sometimes, but to be honest even victory does not feel very good because of how tedious it was to achieve it, and because sometimes your teammates are so bad and/or just toxic and so you don't want to go the extra mile to make them win.
Starcraft243ver1 votesYeah it happens sometimes, but to be honest even victory does not feel very good because of how tedious it was to achieve it, and because sometimes your teammates are so bad and/or just toxic and so you don't want to go the extra mile to make them win.
Actually It feels way better to comeback rather than crushing your opponents from minut 1.
And you seem to think you are making extra miles to make you ally win, leave this mindset behind you if you want to climb, the only reason you are doing the extra miles is so YOU can win.
Most of the time the idiot with this mentality just want to punish ONE wrongdoer in their team, statting that "I dont want this [INSERT CHAMPION NAME] to win the game". Guess what ? They are 3 more people in your team, and maybe they are not the best players either, but they do not deserve that you remove any chances of winning for them.
Lemexis1 votesYeah the "I don't want to get that guy to win" is more of a edge-case, most of the time it's just that I feel like victory is so unlikely it's not worth it. In a way I have the mentality of an investor: if an investment (a game) is going badly, I'd rather cut my losses and go for another that might be better, instead of sticking to it to the end knowing it's much more likely going to make me lose money than to make me earn money.
And I want to climb but I have a more long-term approach to it. I'm still at a very low elo (Bronze 2 right now), so the priority for me is not actually winning but improving. If a game is somewhat balanced, I feel like I can have more impact, I can attempt actions, see what works, what doesn't, where I fuck up, etc...
However, if the game is very one-sided, then almost no matter what I do I just get destroyed, and it's very hard to learn from that because most of the time it's not due to a mistake on your part but just on the fact that the enemy is super fed. Now sure, if you win eventually it'll be interesting to analyze why the enemy team couldn't close the game, and what made this comeback possible. But it doesn't change the fact that a minute spent in a balanced game will teach me more than a minute spent in an unbalanced game (whether it was unbalanced from the start because of the matchmaking, or because it became unbalanced due to a terrible early game).
And usually I just initiate the surrender vote, but I'm not the kind of guy who spends the entire game spamming "ff" in chat, and if people don't want to surrender then I keep playing - sure, I'll probably be a little less good because my morale is down, but I still try my best to make my team wins even if I don't believe it's possible. If only because at least I'll be able to learn a few things if I keep attempting plays, as opposed to just wasting everybody's time by afk-ing or inting or whatever.
Starcraft243ver1 votesI think there's a lot to learn by playing from behind, I often see high elo players that can snowball a game when they have an edge, but seem to totaly go into hard inting mode when they are a bit behind early.
As a veigar player i'm used to always play from behind and you have always ways of stalling a game, making picks for nothing exploit the errors of your opponents.
Especially in bronze there's often a way to come back, trust me.
So you should play every game until the very end because learning how to exploit the ennemies mistakes when you are behind is a nice skill to have.
Lemexis1 votesYeah I've read people say that it's way easier to salvage a game in low elo than in high elo, and that actually in high elo it's almost impossible because people just do little to no mistakes.
And yeah it could probably teach me a bit, but to be honest I don't have too much time to play during the week so I prefer fun games, and I just don't have fun playing from behind. It's just a subjective thing.
And if people don't want to surrender I still play these games to the very end anyway, I don't leave or go afk, so it doesn't change much I guess.
Starcraft243ver1 votesYeah I've read people say that it's way easier to salvage a game in low elo than in high elo, and that actually in high elo it's almost impossible because people just do little to no mistakes.
And yeah it could probably teach me a bit, but to be honest I don't have too much time to play during the week so I prefer fun games, and I just don't have fun playing from behind. It's just a subjective thing.
And if people don't want to surrender I still play these games to the very end anyway, I don't leave or go afk, so it doesn't change much I guess.
I still have some comebacks in diamond, so maybe it's not really high elo but it's still possible. Maybe in challenger/master tiers it's harder.
LaceUpXX1 votesYeah if your team wanted to surrender with a vlad veigar vayne comp...they needs to find a new game lol. You're going to eventually win by existing.
Starcraft243ver1 votesYou'd be surprised how many time I see a player playing a late game beast wanting to surrender because we are 5 kills down.
Starcraft243ver9 votesIf my conqueror nidalee with a teemo support who is 1/9 is holding the ff vote hostage. No, i wont be staying when the kills are 6 to 27. When they are all 3 levels up on us. It's a lost game and i am not gonna sit there and waste all of my time to be trolled. I refuse, sorry [sg-lulu] Downvote if u want tbh idrc.
You seem to think you are only compeled to play if you have any left chances of winning, that's not the case sorry, when you queue for a game you agree to play it until it ends one way or another.
Metal Janna6 votesYou've got the wrong idea. If someone's going to purposely lose the least you can do is hold THEM hostage to the game they ruined. No quickly moving on to troll another game for them.
2Charmnot2Charm4 votesI would just afk farm the side lanes, or purposely bait the players that ruined the game into more deaths.
If they want to play with their brains off then I should be allowed to play with my brain off too.
If they don't like it they should have thought about what they were doing before dying 5+ times in lane and losing tower within the first 8 minutes.
OtterlyLost3 votesI recently left a game. I did feel bad but at the same time, I work 40 hours a week and I was just wanting to play one game. I didnt feel like dealing with a Sona who decided to take my farm and be petty because she wanted a sona/trist lane to try and cheese like a thresh MF lane. I pinged her back and simply said,"I would rather not." And apparently that was the trigger. She went on to steal every CS intentionally and I told her to please stop. Nah, she rather not. So I left the game. I backed right there watching the thresh hook her and murder her ass with the enemy ADC. And then I quit. Cause I was tired, already frustrated, and not interested in dealing with petty ass people.
GigglesO1 votesAt the same time how could you as the adc not out last hit a Sona? Sona is kinda hard to last hit with...
OtterlyLost2 votesAt the same time how could you as the adc not out last hit a Sona? Sona is kinda hard to last hit with...
Power cord Q works very well for sniping minions, for one. For two, her Q hits two targets meaning at the same time I'm trying to hit one minion, she's hitting a second one somewhere else. For three, Tristana has exceptionally low base AS. When she walks up and stands right next to the minion and Q's, it will usually hit before Trist's AA.
GigglesO1 votesAnd she didn't run out of mana spamming q to last hit...???
Mathgodpi1 votesSupport items give decent mana regen, plus she probably had manaflow band. The mana pool can last quite a while when only using Q.
OtterlyLost2 votesAnd she didn't run out of mana spamming q to last hit...???
Maybe she would have but I left at level 3, lol. They ding'd level 3 as I decided to walk back to tower to back and for some strange reason, she stayed pushed up as a lone Sona.
Woodakoodashooda3 votesThere are some exceptions to justifying leaving a game.
The reasons you stated are NOT justified. You're just an average league player. Self-entitled and likely because you just happened to have been fortunate enough to have been born and raised in a first-world country.
Down vote me if you must because your opinion amounts to that of an ant as far as I'm concerned.
we havent met3 votesThe reasons you stated are NOT justified. You're just an average league player. Self-entitled and likely because you just happened to have been fortunate enough to have been born and raised in a first-world country.
Entitled when my family is first generation and im not from the united states? Please eat shit you condescending pile of trash. Secondly, there are no obligations to stay in a game where it's a loss and the gold and experience value is too great to come back from. They were already at our inhib and about to end its not like i left halfway through.
Down vote me if you must because your opinion amounts to that of an ant as far as I'm concerned.
If my opinion meant so little to you, why did you comment? Oh thats right, to spew some weird ass backwards bullshit about my privilege (ah yes being a minority from the phillipines while also being lgbt aH THE PRIVILEGE!) and to tell me that me leaving wasnt justified. Cry me a fucking river half bake.
