Might as well not have even had Armor because thats literally what it was like.
I would rather deal with league of tanks than league of useless defensive stats that one item pretty much negates.
Fizz is not Fish9 votes340×0.75 (
)×0.94(Mastery)×0.65(
)-10()-20(
)= 125.8armor
Sad game.
IAM2FKINGKawaii6 votesThe whole idea is to survive long enough for your team to kill them all
coppinslinger4 votesDamage needs to out-scale tank-stats because if it didn't, everyone would just build full tank and games would go literally for hours as people beat each other in a wet-noodle fest.
In short, it's basically an intended design principle that tanks get shredded in the late-game. However, the power-curve of ADs and APs is such that they need full build to multiplicative increase their damage to the point where they can start shredding tanks (AS + Crit Chance + Crit Enhance + Armor Penetration = Tons of Damage; take out 1 piece of the puzzle and you get significantly less damage). So there is a time in the mid/ early-late game where tanks do soak up a lot of hits.
But that has to end at some point, so eventually the ADC needs to kill you. Being a tank in the late-game is basically trying to lock-down/draw-enough focus at the right time for your team to use their equally massive damage to shred through your enemies. If you don't properly organize your engages, the tanks will just die 1v5.
Tanks might need a little buff in damage reduction in the late-game, but not to the point where they can face-tank enemy carries for 10+ seconds at 50 minutes.
Brorelia2 votesDamage needs to out-scale tank-stats because if it didn't, everyone would just build full tank and games would go literally for hours as people beat each other in a wet-noodle fest.
In short, it's basically an intended design principle that tanks get shredded in the late-game. However, the power-curve of ADs and APs is such that they need full build to multiplicative increase their damage to the point where they can start shredding tanks (AS + Crit Chance + Crit Enhance + Armor Penetration = Tons of Damage; take out 1 piece of the puzzle and you get significantly less damage). So there is a time in the mid/ early-late game where tanks do soak up a lot of hits.
But that has to end at some point, so eventually the ADC needs to kill you. Being a tank in the late-game is basically trying to lock-down/draw-enough focus at the right time for your team to use their equally massive damage to shred through your enemies. If you don't properly organize your engages, the tanks will just die 1v5.
Tanks might need a little buff in damage reduction in the late-game, but not to the point where they can face-tank enemy carries for 10+ seconds at 50 minutes.
The issue is that there is not reason to build full tank because you still get blown up in under 3 seconds.
coppinslinger5 votesI don't think you understood me.
Full-tank still has a relatively strong power-curve in the mid to early-late game. At that point the ADC and APs aren't likely to have combined both MagicPen with their multiplicative scaling (Crits, or DCap + 30% AP, etc). Its only when you get to that extremely late game point where tanks get completely shredded.
I agree tanks might be slightly too squishy in the very late-game at the moment, but I don't think they are weak the entire game, or that they should be significantly stronger in the late-game. As it is, they are still a strong late-game class if they can properly utilize their CC.
Downvote me to hell, but nobody would like a game where an ADC literally had to beat through 400 armor. Games would last years with the only people surviving teamfights being tanks - the champions with the smallest amount of pushing power.
Sorry if my opinion is unpopular.
Caezium1 votesBut even when defense was strongest (season 2), mage tops still were played. (Kennen, Rumble, Vladimir at the time)
Games are stalled now without tanks being strong due waveclear from Zed and most mages. So what is your point? It's significantly harder to end a game if you have no one to front line facetank poke abilities for your team. The average game time went UP in this preseason despite tanks being weaker than last season even.
coppinslinger1 votesI'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
I explained why the current design mechanics are that damage outscales tankiness.
Not sure how relevant Season 2 mage tops, wave-clear, and longer-games are...?
I'd credit longer games to the objective changes more than anything. Not tank stats. Tower shields + lasers are hard to push.
What exactly do you mean to say? I want to respond, but I'm not sure how to.
Brorelia3 votesI know that feel
300+ armor and 4000+ health only to die in under 3 seconds to 2 enemy champions.
Kinda wich they would make an item that will take 15% of your armor and MR and make it % reduced damage for 3 seconds or make thornmail have an active that reflects 100% of damage taken back at the attacker.
But Riot does not see value in that because #LCSBIGPLAYS
Kuroi861 votesBut Riot does not see value in that because #LCSBIGPLAYS
No, they don't see the value in that because of meta golem, look it up. Back when tanks were the only champs that survived the team fight, and the only way a team won was because their tank was a better pusher than the enemy tank. Riot wants the game to be fun and exciting, not a snore fest where half the team decides to FF because it's become clear which tank is going to push better and it's really just going to be an hour long slug fest with no satisfaction for anyone in the game.
HandheldBrandon1 votesThats not what the meta golem was.
The meta golem was when BRUISERS built the holy beefy items.
The triforce The warmogs The atmas The fon The randuins.
They were insanely unkillable and the reason it was a problem was because they were putting out more damage than carries could with 10x the survivability. Atmas made them insane to deal with which is why they removed it.
Honestly if they brought Meta golem back right now it probably wouldnt even do that well because of how arpen works now and with all the tank shred items we have. Literally all the tank shred items we have right now were because of shit like the meta golem but now we have neither the meta golem nor good tank itemization so tanks get eaten alive.
Kuroi861 votesI often count bruisers among tanks, if you don't then that's where we disagree on the point. Simply put, a massive item that benefits tanks and could turn the situation around against marksmen for tanks, is going to do essentially the same thing for bruisers. And yes, metagolem would still be quite an impact. Tank items aren't as good as they should be, but they aren't as far off as you might think. I think what people are really going overboard about is tank shred, which honestly isn't as powerful as people think. Unless Riot changed the formula without telling anyone then it still remains the same. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor
100 armor means 50% reduction on physical damage or +100% effective health. Even against a last whisper, at 200 armor, you've still got 130 effective armor, meaning over 50% physical damage reduction, more than 100% effective health.
ExecutorDill3 votesIts not fair though. Damage is everything, it has even become survivability in a sense, due to the fact that killing someone before they kill you would ensure your survival. Alas their is life steal ... an item that converts % of your damage as health regain and there is no longer an item for tanks that converts defensive stats to offensive. Moment of silence for the late great Atma's Impaler :'(
Maybe if they were to bring a buffed version of Atma back, tanks would have a fair chance.
#ResurrectLeagueofTanks
Drukyul3 votesBruisers are actually tankier than tanks because bruisers can get a bunch of healing over time through their BotRK and/or Hydra.
Dreadlocks2 votesWell you see.. The Offensive Tree scales thoughout the game. Whereas the Defensive tree doesn't scale too well into the late game as the more points you put in past 9 It doesnt increase your late game tankiness, BUT if you put more than 9 points into the Offensive tree, your damage output is much higher.
Kuroi861 votes340 armor with around 3500 health Malphite Vs Draven and Zed
Guessing at this point they were near full build considering you must have been close yourself. At this point, they start to out scale you, they would have already out scaled you if either got fed or you fed your lane. Draven is a tricky champ to play, but he is well worth the effort, late game he can melt pretty much anyone, it's by design.
There are other factors to consider as well. Did your team have anyone else building some tank, or any CC on your team besides your one knock up. Was your team prepared to meet this problem head on or did you and your team just make a huge mistake and forget to try to counter build/counter play either of them?
I would rather deal with league of tanks than league of useless defensive stats that one item pretty much negates.
I wouldn't. I don't care for matches to go on for an hour while no one pushes objectives, no one is able to do anything because the only people that survive team fights are the tanks who can't push for crap.
Besides that, no, one item doesn't negate a defensive stat, it weakens it, not negate.
LilxPaprika1 votesidea suggestion: Last whisper 35% pen for first 50 armor 30% for next 50 25% for next 50 after. and so on to make a clean parabolic curve of depreciative value the more armor the opponent has. dorsnt have to be in increments of 5. and could be even less. the formula could even taper off. like 35% for 50 armor to 27% for 200 armor to 25% for 300 armor. a black cleaver lowers the champions armor thereby making lastwhisper potentially more gold effecient vs tanks. further encouraging tanks to realize they need to back off if they see they have black cleaver stack against them. this will encourage more team efforts and synergy between characters. at least black cleaver gives you some warning and nasus w lets you know your in trouble. lastwhisper can remain just as powerful when paired with good team work. wukong reduce enemy armor by 30%. i mean cmon
your last whsiper could still get great return on value the more your allies lower the tanks armor. should be a team effort to take down raid boss. Its not like my suggestion would make it that much harder either.
you people looking at extremes. resurrecting tanks doesnt imply going from 5 seoncd battle duration to one minute.
a nerf might mean having more team cohesion to take out tanks. or give tanks more warning and indicators to tell them thst their armor is being shredded.
nerfing lastwhisper but giving more champs armor pen in their kits or even make support item to help shred armor.
Meep Man1 votesIf you want to Tank these days, your champion beeds innate bonus defenses. Shields and % damage reduction are king for surviving. Malphite is very defensive. You obviously didnt think of hitting Draven with your E and didnt buy Randuins and Frozen Heart. 80% attack speed slow, so Draven wont matter. Zed is the one who killed you. Buy Zhonyas along with the listed before items and you should live unless Zed is crazy fed.
If you want REAL tanky champions:
HandheldBrandon1 votesNot sure if serious.....
The goal was to hit anyone especially draven with my E on malphite. He was our primary focus in every fight as he was the biggest threat.
Not sure where you got your facts but you got them wrong.