They'll still have to debug for Dominion (eg, 'waste resources') if Dominion and Ascension are on the rotating queue. Dominion could have been at least left in Customs for Hide and Seek players and absolutely nothing would have changed.
Nahui7 votesThey don't want to waste time balancing for dominion. Every new champion, buffs, nerfs, etc could hugely impact dominion and to waste time balancing for it is pointless.
Also it was the breeding ground for bots. Another thing they don't want to waste time on. Ascension is a fun game mode that isn't meant to be balanced. It's also occasional. And they don't have to worry about bots there.
Me and most players agree Dominion was a waste.
Rebonack5 votesThey don't want to waste time balancing for dominion. Every new champion, buffs, nerfs, etc could hugely impact dominion and to waste time balancing for it is pointless.
Do you seriously, honestly believe that? That Riot took Dominion into consideration at all? Azir didn't even have a passive there and he still got play.
Dominion hasn't had any cheesecake-exploding-all-over-the-ceiling-tier-champions for years now. The champs that are too powerful there are typically too strong on Rift, too. They eventually got hit and everything was fine. Riot could have ignored Dominion balance like they've been doing and people still would have had fun with it.
Also it was the breeding ground for bots. Another thing they don't want to waste time on. Ascension is a fun game mode that isn't meant to be balanced. It's also occasional. And they don't have to worry about bots there.
Bots are moving to Treeline and ARAM. Nothing's changing on that front.
Me and most players agree Dominion was a waste.
Like I said in the opening post, Riot could have left Dominion on Customs and it would have hurt absolutely nothing if they're planning on having Ascension on the rotating queue.
Nahui6 votesI do honestly believe that. Every so often there'd be patch notes for dominion balancing items and champions. Waste of time.
Dominion was a no strategy, brainless mode that was rampant with more bots than any other mode ever had. It was nothing like League. At least ARAM and TT had towers, nexi', inhibitors, and standardized creeps. Dominion was a whole different game mode on its own that had a tiny tiny fraction of the playerbase.
Bots are easier to catch on more played games as there are far more reports. Bots were the norm for dominion. Even TT has some bad issues, but since TT is used more, more reports, more catches.
They didn't want Dominion being used as an XP farm for bots. TT and ARAM is harder as players take it more seriously. Dominion? No one cares, you see bots, doesn't matter. It's a silly game mode which is basically a big gladiator arena match. Bots were roaming free because no one cares.
Riot could leave Dominion to appease the tiny 1% or so that actually looked at the game mode once in a while. But weighing that to the cost of having to balance a bit of it as well as the greater amount of leveling bots than others just was not worth it.
There's no point in keeping a resource. It's just bad rep. "Oh, we have this thing called dominion. It's just an empty map that no one uses and we don't look at, but some players will play hide and seek." Ok, what's the point? Delete it and never think of it again.
3TWarrior5 votesit was actually a quite fun mode that was over quickly, great for first win of the day, allowed full builds to be accomplished more quickly, involved coordination and league skill to outwit and outlast your opponents
the 3 most complained about problems with dominion that RIOT COULD HAVE EASILY FIXED:
you have to wait a minute and 20 seconds to even leave your base
the artwork was never updated(I don't know why people care about this...summoner's rift looked pretty much the same and has barely changed in years...heck, it was more upsetting that they made an entire visual update for ARAM and chucked it away only to be used on special occasions whenever they decide to launch a pirate themed gameplay experience again
bots...instead of...I don't know, using their advanced "techniques" with which they bust players, couldn't they have automatically detected when a player issues a strictly dictated set of commands and frequently went 0/10? or how about if they actually purchased an anti-hack program to monitor their game...they're already busting players for 3rd party programs which don't always exist and yet they couldn't find bots...
then there was the final complaint: certain team compositions could overwhelmingly dominate it...doesn't that sound familiar for summoner's rift and twisted treeline? it's called the meta for a reason because players find what works best...it wasn't the player's fault that riot didn't update the simplest parts of the mode's code
if you want to know the issue that was present EVER SINCE DOMINION'S RELEASE, however....riot never released a ranked mode for dominion...actually encouraging people to play the other game modes because they could have bragging rights and actually assess their skill level...dominion was always win or lose, not, "hey look, I have X win rate and Y ranking!"
Chaotic Sage1 votesWait time is irrelevant. SR has change VASTLY from what it looked like at the start. Similar theme but enormously updated art and details. Bot detection comes mainly from reports and suggesting buying a program for a feature mode that such a tiny percentage of the player base uses actually strengthens the oppositions argument since bots aren't even remotely close to as prevalent in other modes. Team comps being overwhelming is vastly different from Dominion to any given normal game since it's entirely objective control and not just push n win once you get an important objective. Mobility and map presence are practically unstoppable there with very little counter play from what I gather. There's also a handful of reasons they never released ranked as well, part of it being due to lack of player-base for it. Why make a ranked queue for something else when making one for TT was barely worth it?
3TWarrior2 votes"wait time is irrelevant" really...if you couldn't move until minions spawned on summoner's rift, would you be just as likely to play it?
I suggested that they buy a program to monitor the game as a whole...heck, even no playerbase games like the first person shooter blacklight retribution (which actually got to air on the PS4 and bump up its playerbase) include their own programs to monitor your computer while the game or its launcher program is active...
hackers still get through, but the more blatant someone is (say a bot), the easier it is for such a program to detect and punish the player responsible
did you even read what you posted? " Team comps being overwhelming is vastly different from Dominion to any given normal game since it's entirely objective control and not just push n win once you get an important objective"...
half of the players on the boards would kill someone on summoner's rift if it were as balanced as Dominion was...
Chaotic Sage1 votesI would absolutely still play it up to around 2 minutes of wait time.
Really? You think buying a single monitoring program would fix even the bot problem? I'd give em about 4 days to find a workaround. Sure they'll punish a few but the ease of creating a new account is hilarious compared to the cost.
Did you even read what I posted?
Your last sentence doesn't make any sense either since balance is subjective.
Rebonack5 votes{quoted} Dominion was a no strategy, brainless mode
Hah.
There used to be tournaments, you know.
Probably my favorite Dominate Dominion tourney had a Rift Challenger 5s team show up expecting an easy win.
They got the shit stomped out of them by some no-name group of unranked Crystal Scar players. It was as brutal as it was hilarious.
Dominion had strategy. It was just very very different from Rift. It didn't have the competitive scene for people to emulate. People jumping in tried to play it like Rift and got wrecked. And getting wrecked resulted in people throwing up their arms and declaring 'this map is mindless and dumb'. The swarms of bots that descended on it after Riot removed Custom game XP certainly didn't help things.
And really?
No one?
Even by Riot's own numbers, something like one hundred thousand unique players were logging games of Dominion every day. Even if two thirds of those were bots, that's still tens of thousands of players who made the Dominion queue their home, not counting the people who played Hide and Seek customs.
All I'm saying, is that with Riot's current plans for the Rotating Queue they could have left Dominion on for Custom games. Die hard Dominion players still would have been able to run their inhouse games, Hide and Seek players wouldn't have lost their map, and the bots still would have been ousted.
Minarde1 votesEvery so often there'd be patch notes for dominion balancing items and champions. Waste of time.
It was essentially one guy doing it in his spare time, spread out across TT, ARAM, and Dom. And Dominion's removal hasn't really changed that.
GaleWinUnleashed2 votesI never got too deep into Dominion, but it was definitely not a "no strategy, brainless mode". It had a mastery curve just like Summoner's Rift and Twisted Treeline.
Elkington2 votesThey rarely ever balanced champions for Dominion, yet the map still managed to be better balanced than both SR and TT. Only a small handful of champions have gotten Dominion-specific changes over a span of half a decade. There were very few champions that would straight up give your team a massive disadvantage. Games weren't won at champion select the way most are on SR/TT. Also, the mode was far from brainless. It only seemed that way at entry-level play, but the same could be said for all the maps.
Nahui1 votesSR isn't decided in champ select lol...
Otherwise pro games wouldn't exist.
Matezoide5 votesAnyone who legitimately believed Riot deleted Dominion to "save resources" is a complete moron.
They don't want to waste time balancing for dominion. Every new champion, buffs, nerfs, etc could hugely impact dominion and to waste time balancing for it is pointless.
Also it was the breeding ground for bots. Another thing they don't want to waste time on. Ascension is a fun game mode that isn't meant to be balanced. It's also occasional. And they don't have to worry about bots there.
Me and most players agree Dominion was a waste.
Except they literally gave no support to Dominion since it's release. They never tried to balanced Dominion outside of very minor adjustments for certain champions, which is why the mode was unpopular to begin with.
It doesnt matter if most people didnt play it, Dominion was still content that got removed for absolutely no reason. The removal accomplished nothing outside of fuck it's small playerbase.
Lauchmelder2 votesIf you pay for a Nitrado Server (let's say Minecraft for example) and pay for a 100 Slots while there are maybe 2-3 active players a week what would you do?
Matezoide3 votes[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=abvdcJff,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-03-31T06:28:12.501+0000)
If you pay for a Nitrado Server (let's say Minecraft for example) and pay for a 100 Slots while there are maybe 2-3 active players a week what would you do?
Try to make it more appealing to attract players, maybe?
I sure wouldnt leave it on for half a decade without doing a single thing to try and imrpove the situation, which is exactly the reason it was unpopular to begin with.
Do you legitimately believe they would have left Dominion on for anywhere near as long as they did if it was costing them a noticeable amount of money?
Abyssphere1 votesTry to make it more appealing to attract players, maybe?
I sure wouldnt leave it on for half a decade without doing a single thing to try and imrpove the situation, which is exactly the reason it was unpopular to begin with.
Do you legitimately believe they would have left Dominion on for anywhere near as long as they did if it was costing them a noticeable amount of money?
They spoke about this though. They said that the amount of effort they'd have to go to to make Dominion appealing would go about 100x as far on Summoner's Rift, and a fair bit further on the other maps too.
They could have tried saving Dominion but the same amount of work that'd make a lot of people enjoy SR a lot more would have just taken Dominion from "an embarrassment" to "really really really unpopular".
3TWarrior1 votesyet the same effort they're putting into summoner's rift is upsetting a large amount of players and ENSURING that the top 20 meta stays a thing except for the dedicated players of underperforming champions
Rebonack2 votesThey spoke about this though. They said that the amount of effort they'd have to go to to make Dominion appealing would go about 100x as far on Summoner's Rift, and a fair bit further on the other maps too.
Really?
Well.
Please name a single thing Riot has changed specifically on Rift in the past year that has improved the game play experience there.
Because last I checked, most people have absolutely hated nearly every new thing Riot has done to the map recently. The only truly fun addition I can think of were the Jungle changes back in Pre-Season 4.
redniwediS2 votesBasically the servers that ran Dominion will run the new rotating queue.
Could they have gotten more servers? Probably, but they felt it was better to reuse servers they already had that were hardly ever used.
I do agree about the customs though. RIP Hide and Seek.
ModWulf Helhammer1 votesLeaving dominion on custom games would cost the same amount of resources, but would see even less play then the normal map
redniwediS2 votesI don't know how they have their servers set up, but I would assume it would share resources that custom games already use. I doubt SR custom games are handled differently compared to ARAM customs, or Twisted Treeline customs.
GaleWinUnleashed1 votesIt's not so much server resources as it is game design resources. Every new or changed bit of content has to be tested on every map to look for obscure bugs that could potentially be game-breaking. That's more or less a flat cost that doesn't change with the size of the player-base for each map; roughly the same number of hours will be needed to thoroughly bug-test anything new regardless of which map it is, so it's clearly worth more when the testing benefits a larger number of players.
It still confuses me, though. If Dominion is still going to be in the rotating queue, they can save a few balance resources, but how on earth does it cost fewer design resources than keeping the game mode, even just in customs? I haven't seen a satisfying explanation for that one yet.
Rebonack2 votesIt's not so much server resources as it is game design resources. Every new or changed bit of content has to be tested on every map to look for obscure bugs that could potentially be game-breaking. That's more or less a flat cost that doesn't change with the size of the player-base for each map; roughly the same number of hours will be needed to thoroughly bug-test anything new regardless of which map it is, so it's clearly worth more when the testing benefits a larger number of players.
It still confuses me, though. If Dominion is still going to be in the rotating queue, they can save a few balance resources, but how on earth does it cost fewer design resources than keeping the game mode, even just in customs? I haven't seen a satisfying explanation for that one yet.
Yeeeeep.
That's pretty much the point of this topic.
Riot's given reasons for removing Dominion (and by extension, Ascension) would only apply if they never ever came back. But because they'll be playable on the weekends every few months, Riot's argument completely falls apart. They'll still have to fish for bugs just like they always have.
Duelpower2 votesThey should have done that texture update forever ago instead of after removing Dominion.
ChaddyFantome1 votesI've been saying the same thing.
RookPusher1 votesFewer than 0.5% of players actively play Dominion and we’re aware some number of even that small population is still bots.
So why do you care?
Rebonack5 votesSo why do you care?
Because half a percent of twenty million people is still a whole fucking lot of people.
I played mostly on Dominion, quite a few of the folks on my friend list did, too. This was understandably upsetting to us.
Especially when it became transparently obvious that every single one of Riot's excuses for removing Dominion were complete and utter bullshit.
Brimaz The King1 votesThey even updated the map some visually.
Minarde1 votesPresumably it does save work because Riot only has to check for bugs right before the mode goes live instead of checking for bugs every change every patch. Other bugs aside (like Azir leaving the base early), Riot would definitely be interested in removing crash bugs. Although the actual amount of resources saved is questionably significant, "saving resources" is (probably) technically true.