As a Fizz main, I have come to realize how unfair Playful/trickster is.

3ofGot40ve·Feb 20, 2016·157 votes·8,238 views

Its almost unpunishable except mana cost. Increasing that cooldown by at least 2 seconds would be totally reasonable.

178 Comments

disregardableFeb 20, 201626 votes

A fizz main with little more than 20 games played. Right.

3ofGot40veFeb 20, 20166 votes

Those are just my ranked games. I have much much more in normals. How many games I have played is besides the point.

disregardableFeb 20, 201621 votes

No, it wasn't. You've only played 16 normal games on Fizz in the past 3 months. 3 ranked games this season, 7 ranked games last season.

If you were to ask me, as a Jinx main with over 500 games, "Is Jinx unfair?" I wouldn't talk about some play that happened last game. I've got more important, general things to say.

I'm not saying Fizz is unfair or fair (I haven't been playing much recently), but I am saying that's not acceptable reasoning to decide.

3ofGot40veFeb 20, 20169 votes

Your right, I havnt been playing him as much. But this board isn't about how much I play fizz, its about fizz gameplay. Please do not sidetrack my discussion.

NarzeimFeb 21, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=fishing l3g3nd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZyre43B,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-20T22:18:32.921+0000)

Your right, I havnt been playing him as much. But this board isn't about how much I play fizz, its about fizz gameplay. Please do not sidetrack my discussion.

Actually, you got caught lying. You have zero credibility and are just a hater. I could go point and counterpoint with you but I try not to feed trolls who compain about hater champs for free upvotes.

3ofGot40veFeb 21, 20166 votes

Actually, you got caught lying

Who are you to tell me how much I play a champ and how my main is?

You have zero credibility and are just a hater

I'm hating? On what? I'm trying to make a discussion and you and Disregardable are saying I cant have an opinion cus my amount of fizz games aren't up to standard.

I try not to feed trolls who compain about hater champs for free upvotes.

I am not complaining. Hell with how much I like fizz I wouldn't mind if he stayed this way, but it just feels really unhealthy.

Also, Please do not accuse me of 'farming upvotes'. this isn't youtube, I don't get payed for getting upvotes. You seem like the troll to me.

Pink Chocolade Feb 21, 20164 votes

Oh boy you should just say its your smurf account

Cosmic WarperFeb 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No, it wasn't. You've only played 16 normal games on Fizz in the past 3 months. 3 ranked games this season, 7 ranked games last season.

If you were to ask me, as a Jinx main with over 500 games, "Is Jinx unfair?" I wouldn't talk about some play that happened last game. I've got more important, general things to say.

I'm not saying Fizz is unfair or fair (I haven't been playing much recently), but I am saying that's not acceptable reasoning to decide.

Where can you check the amount of normal games you have on a champ? I'm curious

disregardableFeb 21, 20162 votes

op.gg -> champions -> normal

as I said, Riot's API only gives you the normals for the past 3 months, whereas ranked games are available forever.

https://i.gyazo.com/2a2e7cfa03ddf98ba43322e57e44e8e1.png

Shac NorrisFeb 22, 20163 votes

{quoted}

A fizz main with little more than 20 games played. Right.

Mayyyyyyybe not only playing ranked.

BeMyFriendPleaseFeb 21, 20167 votes

your 4 games with fizz prove your claims.

I must say it's amazing people didn't look at that first, enjoy the upvote farming though

PennsFeb 20, 20166 votes

I wonder why people always complain about champs that are balanced but annoying to play against like Fizz or TahmKench while there are a ton of actually broken champs with 53-58 win rate lol.

SpoofghoulFeb 20, 201651 votes

broken =/= winrate m8

PennsFeb 21, 20166 votes

Win rate doesnt say everything but its still one of the best indicators.

WimbledofyFeb 21, 201610 votes

think what he meant is along the lines of overpowered and broken are two different things. Broken is mainly regarding kit, overpowered has to do with stats. If they made a champ that had 1000 base ad but all his abilities were super hard skill shots, he wouldn't really be broken in terms of his kit but he could one shot people with just his autos.

5000000000000000Feb 21, 20161 votes

If all his abilities are really hard skill shots, that'd be broken in itself.

WimbledofyFeb 21, 20165 votes

idk what im even saying.

5000000000000000Feb 21, 20166 votes

I get what you mean, but you used a bad example, lol. You can have a fair kit and be overtuned/undertuned and be OP/UP but not broken. Kinda like release Bard being trash tier.

charcharmunroFeb 20, 20166 votes

...BECAUSE they're annoying to play against. Fizz's E is probably one of the unhealthiest moves in the game. It gives him a get-out-of-jail-free card, a disturbing amount of mobility, a slow, AoE chunking...

KING 5HARKFeb 21, 20164 votes

{quoted}

...BECAUSE they're annoying to play against. Fizz's E is probably one of the unhealthiest moves in the game. It gives him a get-out-of-jail-free card, a disturbing amount of mobility, a slow, AoE chunking...

Half the champions have some kind of get-out-of-jail-free-card

JQKAndreiFeb 21, 20167 votes

Yeah but they pay a lot for it.

Ekko has it on an ultimate

Vladimir has to pay 20% of his health, and cannot jump over walls with it (and dooesn't do that much damage)

MohawkBirdFeb 21, 20161 votes

[deleted]

yoniameFeb 21, 20164 votes

they at least have have no intargetibility

KnoyleFeb 21, 20162 votes

I would take Fizz over any AD Assassin any day but that doesn't make him less bullshit. I just say fix the other Assassins first before you touch him.

And um NO Tahm IS bullshit no matter how you look at him. No damage items and can still 100-0 squishies like a fed Nasus and he's supposed to be A SUPPORT.

SithesisLordFeb 21, 20161 votes

Renekton item 3748 item 3071 item 3053 item 1305 item 3742 item 3065 +TLD

Oh. Where's TK? Right. Fish just became crocodile food.

KnoyleFeb 21, 20169 votes

having counter picks does not mean its balanced.

Supreme Senpai69Feb 21, 20163 votes

Tahm Kench became balanced with the last batch of nerfs I'd argue. Still annoying and toxic to the game but I don't feel helpless laning against him anymore. And playing him doesn't feel cheap like it used to. Personally I wish they'd change his ult to just get rid of the HP/Damage part completely and increase its active radius. Until rank 3 you can't even do much with it, whereas supports shouldn't be doing much damage anyway.

But yea, fuck Fizz.

KING 5HARKFeb 21, 20165 votes

{quoted}

I would take Fizz over any AD Assassin any day but that doesn't make him less bullshit. I just say fix the other Assassins first before you touch him.

And um NO Tahm IS bullshit no matter how you look at him. No damage items and can still 100-0 squishies like a fed Nasus and he's supposed to be A SUPPORT.

If he gets to the carry. A champ is not bullshit because you or 50% of boards, who actually have no clue about this game, say that. He has clear weaknesses but you fail to see them and start bitching.

KnoyleFeb 21, 20162 votes

Then by all means enlighten me on what his weaknesses are. It doesn't help to SAY he has weaknesses and not actually state them.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 21, 20162 votes

No waveclear in sieges aside from ult (similarly, no poke). One waveclear spell that is also his main damage. Low Range for the most part. Mobility is tied to a lot of his damage - zed, leblanc, talon, kat, kassadin, kha, and Rengar can use their mobility to gapclose and still do great damage with their other abilities. Aside from his E, has pretty low base damages unless you stand there getting autoed to death with his W up. Q can be interrupted. E can be flashed. Ult's delay makes it easy to QSS, and its unlikely to hit more than 1 player if the enemy is paying attention. Core items got super expensive (Lich Bane and Zhonyas). While bursty when ahead, his W is designed for sustained damage - though it makes it harder to 1v1 him since he can chase you down, it takes him longer to reach his one-shot potential than other assassins. Pretty high cooldowns and mana costs, especially for a champ that isnt likely to rush athenes or morello. P

His strengths, though i assume you know them: slipperly. Has untargetability in kit. Execute DoT damage makes it hard to fight when low. Shark gives DFG-like effect. He can outplay you. Not the greatest stat-check champ, but does fairly well. Is a counter-assassin to other assassins after a couple items.

RikariFeb 21, 201615 votes

the only thing that makes Fizz balanced is his E. http://cnet2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/05/31/3d97705c-8ea1-4030-ac30-193b4b22d9a7/resize/570xauto/e738e2b3a5b3dacc1fade21d2dd6524a/twitch-kappa.jpg Get it? Because he is balanced when he's on the pole? no? k

63536895_DELFeb 21, 201628 votes

He's not perfectly balanced on his E, the laws of Fizzics prevent him from staying up there.

ZhireFeb 21, 20166 votes

stop

MhihnjFeb 21, 201610 votes

that's it. I am becoming a fizzician

Billy VoHagenFeb 21, 20166 votes

I assume you meant physicist, not physician. It would be fizzicist.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 21, 20164 votes

Learn your Fizziology. His webbed feet allow him to balance then jump off.

Whut Thuh Feb 21, 20163 votes

exactly its fizzically impossible for him to stay up there for very long. if he were to stay up there it would be astroNAMIcaly op. but just saying that is giving riot ideas ;)

BârdFeb 21, 20164 votes

But then he falls off.

ShonjlFeb 21, 20165 votes

Because winrate and OP are different.

Examples I can come of the top of my head with that people mention a lot on the forums are Fizz and Lux.

Lux has a high winrate and playrate due to how easy it is to play her and how favorable she is in this meta. She herself isn't broken though since she is insanely easy to kill. If she Qs and it doesn't snare you, she is dead period.

Fizz though I can see being broken since I am fairly sure not only does he have an even higher winrate than Lux. But due to his E being one of the most toxic abilities in the game. Its a Zhonyas bursting double dash on basically no CD. Anyone that plays Fizz now always gets 30-45% CDR so it will always be 4-5 seconds. The mana cost on it becomes a nonissue after a few levels or if it basically always kills. So you basically have 4 seconds to kill him before he escapes or kills you, and this is often with him coming into you more often than not. If you do start on him, he will E away or on top of you when you miss some of your abilities, so even a weak Fizz has an advantage on you always.

Slamurai JackFeb 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lux has a high winrate and playrate due to how easy it is to play her and how favorable she is in this meta. She herself isn't broken though since she is insanely easy to kill. If she Qs and it doesn't snare you, she is dead period.

Please explain to me how Lux is favorable in a meta filled with assassins and mobile adcs. I'd love to hear it. If you're gonna just say something is strong in the meta, you need to actually justify that statement.

yoniameFeb 21, 20164 votes

she outranges basic attacks while being able to cc them and shield her own carries both as mid and as suport lux. personally i'd say her ulti has too high scaling, she should be forced to use her passive more

Slamurai JackFeb 21, 20162 votes

That's not a reason for why she's supposedly so good in this meta; that's just listing things she does. You said that she's "good in this meta" with the meta being lots of assassins and mobile adcs being the standard. Why? What is it she does that's particularly good against those champions? Because to me, it seems like she's not particularly good against those champions but is strong enough that she's a good pick regardless.

yoniameFeb 21, 20163 votes

i am not sure i understand what you don't understand

Slamurai JackFeb 21, 20161 votes

I'm going to assume English isn't your first language because otherwise my question would be pretty clear.

You said Lux is good in this meta. That implies that Lux is good against other champions that are popular right now. Assassins are really popular right now and so are mobile adcs. Both of these champions give skillshot champions like Lux a hard time but you say she's strong in this meta anyway. I said she's so strong that it doesn't matter that she's not good against meta champs.

yoniameFeb 21, 20163 votes

oh okey i got it, you missed the ,,outranges" part. Zed aside (well okey most teamfights are in late game so we can except lux to somewhat counter him with zhonya) if any of the ad carries/assasins come close she can root them while the rest of the team, destroys them as they are normally squishes, while she still has her and her ultimate to peel enemy lanes backline, and her w to help her team engage. So she is particularry good because she can & cc shield from a safe distance and works as a support with supreme scaling

Slamurai JackFeb 21, 20162 votes

Now there you go, that's a good answer.

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20162 votes

but annoying to play against

Because of this. Just because a champion isn't OP, that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. This is a game and its main goal should be to be always funny. If a champion's existence alone makes its opponent's life miserable, then you have to solve that problem. And the two best ways to solve it are (1) rework that champion so its more fun to play against (e.g. Poppy) (2) overnerf that champion so it's unviable enough to guarantee nobody will play it, minimizing its impact on the overall player experience (e.g. Yorick).

Fizz is utterly frustrating and innervating to play against, and sooner or later RIOT will need to acknowledge that and face that problem.

PennsFeb 21, 20161 votes

Its also an esport. "Its a game" is a pretty bad excuse for stupid balancing demands lel. Apart from that Fizz isnt even like Yorick. Id say he is about as frustrating to play against as Le Blanc or tanks like Malphite/Voli.

KaisadiIIaFeb 21, 20162 votes

Never said it shouldn't be balanced. But it is first a game, and then a sport, because there is no point playing nor watching a sport that is not fun.

And you can apply this to any recreational activity: take football or basketball. They are made to be fun as much as they are to be competitive.

PennsFeb 21, 20163 votes

So... Is Fizz constantly picked in competitive play and on top of that making games unfun? I doubt it. Show me 1 Plat or above guy in this thread, made by a bronze-silver "Fizz main", that complains about Fizz. I couldnt find one.