Please, Riot Listen to us a Little More

Lysdexic1··3 votes·648 views

Riot, I want you to take a good, hard look at the new duskblade and the changes to Xin Zhao, and then I want you to look at some of the community feedback that came through while they were on the PBE. The community overwhelmingly disagreed with both of these changes before they went through stating them as both unneeded and just downright blatantly overpowered. And now, a few days into their live server debut, lo and behold, they are blatantly overpowered and just outright defining the meta right now. ADC's are building Sterak's Gaze just to counter the influx of assassins.

But this problem goes beyond just the current state of the game. We plead with you on a regular basis not to release certain changes, but our cries always fall on deaf ears. Look at the juggernaut rework of Skarner, Mordekaiser and Darius; all three of them were grossly overpowered upon release. Both the PBE and the boards had given you overwhelmingly negative feedback about them, but they were pushed through anyway. You then had to spend the next several patches nerfing the hell outta them to make them balanced, when it would have been so much more beneficial to have just held them back and have them in a better state upon release.

Cassiopeia's rework had problems of it's own. It just didn't feel right. We didn't like where the changes were headed and we were very vocal about it. She saw maybe 2 patches of play after her initial release and while sure, her balance state was okay, she didn't feel rewarding to play anymore. she was then promptly abandoned by most people, both veteran Cass players and new players alike. And it wasn't that she was incredibly weak, there was just no real reason to pick her. She didn't have significant easy burst, mobility, or reliable damage. The fact that she was a scaling hyper carry didn't really come into play very often because we were in the middle of a very fast paced meta upon her release.

My point is this: please consider player feedback more when making game changing decisions, please Riot. We may not always be right (popular consensus before Yasuo was released was he was a bit underpowered and then once he hit live he exploded), but when a significant portion of players who actually respond to the changes of the game are telling you that those changes are too strong or too weak, at least go back and take another look rather than push through with no regard for our advice. It saves headaches, time, and probably a lot of money spent in future balance playtests.

7 Comments

yukumari3 votes

Riot does listen to the community. However, Leagues community is so flip-floppy when it comes to balance, it's stupid. People beg for Garen to be reworked and buffed, because he was "braindead to play" and a one trick, damage soak. They listen. They rework. Then the other half of the community cries that he's OP. Then when he's nerfed, people complain that he's over nerfed. This happens for literally every change ever. In addition to this, everyone has a different Idea of the direction the game should go. If riot listened to everyone, the game would be a fucking mess.

Riot listens. That doesn't mean they implement everything that they hear, but they certainly hear it.

Lysdexic11 votes

{quoted}

Riot does listen to the community. However, Leagues community is so flip-floppy when it comes to balance, it's stupid. People beg for Garen to be reworked and buffed, because he was "braindead to play" and a one trick, damage soak. They listen. They rework. Then the other half of the community cries that he's OP. Then when he's nerfed, people complain that he's over nerfed. This happens for literally every change ever. In addition to this, everyone has a different Idea of the direction the game should go. If riot listened to everyone, the game would be a fucking mess.

Riot listens. That doesn't mean they implement everything that they hear, but they certainly hear it.

However, some of the changes are very obviously overtuned. and while it's true they should not implement all of the changes we ask for, the ones that are on the PBE have statistical values that can be quantified. All of the things we tell them can be easily checked and balanced accordingly, but they do not take the time to properly balance things before they ship them out. We submit them video proof, long rants that include mathematical analysis of the changes and ask for Riot to take another look at the things they push through. However, they do not even double check the products they ship to live. What purpose does it serve if our feedback is relatively ignored?

My Sea Cow1 votes

From my understanding PBE is more for making sure bugs are worked out not balancing. Could be wrong though

Lysdexic11 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Sea Cow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aXZ7wdEK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-13T21:35:24.117+0000)

From my understanding PBE is more for making sure bugs are worked out not balancing. Could be wrong though

This is taken straight from the league of legends website "The Public Beta Environment (PBE) is a limited-access public League of Legends realm where players help us test "declassified" features, content and experiments that aren't yet (and may never be) ready for prime time. Why do we have the PBE? Riot's mission is to be the most player-focused game company we can be, and part of that is making sure that we're taking cues from you. Your feedback is what fuels us as we strive to make the League experience better. When it comes to rooting out problems, testing ideas, and building the game, the more feedback from you we can get earlier in the process, the better off we're gonna be. The PBE lets us call up a bunch of passionate League of Legends players to get their eyes, brains and QWER keys in front of cool new stuff while it’s still being worked out."

there are a couple lines showing that it's also for making balance decisions. "The Public Beta Environment (PBE) is a limited-access public League of Legends realm where players help us test "declassified" features, content and experiments that aren't yet (and may never be) ready for prime time" This passage says that they may use our feedback to halt progress on any given project. "When it comes to rooting out problems, testing ideas, and building the game, the more feedback from you we can get earlier in the process, the better off we're gonna be." This one says rooting out problems, not just bugs. It also says it uses it as a place to test ideas, meaning that they arent sure of their decisions yet but take our experience into consideration.

Dyonas1 votes

They may say that PBE is to test changes and that they want to take on feedback from testers but in reality PBE is pretty exclusively used to find bugs and fix them along with test that new stuff works before release. After it's pushed to live it becomes the balance team's problem. It's a sad state of affairs but that is pretty much how I've come to view PBE.

Lysdexic11 votes

{quoted}

They may say that PBE is to test changes and that they want to take on feedback from testers but in reality PBE is pretty exclusively used to find bugs and fix them along with test that new stuff works before release. After it's pushed to live it becomes the balance team's problem. It's a sad state of affairs but that is pretty much how I've come to view PBE.

It looks to me like a massive waste of resources. Why waste the extra time and money doing the work 2-5 times when they could just have it done right the first time?

Dyonas1 votes

{quoted}

It looks to me like a massive waste of resources. Why waste the extra time and money doing the work 2-5 times when they could just have it done right the first time?

Who knows? For a company that supposedly makes $18m every 5 days they sure don't seem to have many people working on big projects if they can only manage one full Sion-sized rework a year. It makes you wonder just where all that money goes.

More from Gameplay

More by Lysdexic1