New Boot Idea

Lysdexic1·Oct 4, 2015·8 votes·1,104 views

Hey guys I was just watching the worlds FNATIC vs C9, where FNATIC used the yasuo knockup comp, and I started thinking how it was unfair that there was no real itemization against knockups, especially considering how many champions have them, so i want to propose a new boot line specifically designed to reduce that kind of CC. Enter the Gravity Boots. They provide the usual extra movespeed over T1 boots, however they also reduce the duration of knockups by 20%. I realize there are some very short knockups out there, so I am keeping the duration reduction kind of low, however I just want any sort of itemization against it, to make it a little less OP. Not OP in the sense that it is incredibly overbearing, but OP in the sense there is nothing you can do against it, and it is so common among champions. Tell me what you guys think :).

25 Comments

GrReaper96Oct 4, 20154 votes

How bout making tenacity reduce knockup duration as well?

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How bout making tenacity reduce knockup duration as well?

I believe there was some talk of that a while ago, but it hasn't been applied yet and there is no further mention so it's safe to assume they said no,

EnvironmentalistOct 4, 20151 votes

Not a bad idea, but if you're taking Yasuo's ult as a reason for these boots, the 20% reduction isn't going to make a difference, unless Yas is trailing behind and getting into the fight late.

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not a bad idea, but if you're taking Yasuo's ult as a reason for these boots, the 20% reduction isn't going to make a difference, unless Yas is trailing behind and getting into the fight late.

No, Yasuo isn't the reason for these boots, he's just one part of a large problem of a very common CC type with literally no itemization against it.

Daedalus871Oct 4, 20151 votes

Knock ups/backs/aside aren't supposed to be counterbuilt. They are a cc that is supposed to be untenacitable.

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Knock ups/backs/aside aren't supposed to be counterbuilt. They are a cc that is supposed to be untenacitable.

And that is incerdibly unfair. Half of the champions in the game have a knock up/back/aside. Why can't we have any sort of counter to it? If it was uncommon amongst champions, sure I would understand that, but with there being so many of them and so many of them being AOE it just seems stupid to have literally no way to fight against it.

Daedalus871Oct 4, 20151 votes

item 3102

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Long CD and only blocks one skill. Anyone with decent situational awareness will waste a low CD spell on that and THEN use their CC

Daedalus871Oct 4, 20151 votes

If you make a "gravity" effect separate from tenacity, it will be situationally overpowered or completely useless.

If you make "gravity" part of tenacity, then you got rid of the reason for knock-ups in the first place.

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you make a "gravity" effect separate from tenacity, it will be situationally overpowered or completely useless.

Exactly! That's called counter building. Stacking armor is OP -in certain situations- but really bad against heavy AP teams. Stacking health is good -unless you're vs alot of % health champions-. there is no situation where a build is 100% OP, but if you're building AGAINST your opponents, ANY build can be OP.

Daedalus871Oct 4, 20151 votes

By situationally OP, I mean it could have 50% reduced knockup time, and I still wouldn't consider getting it unless the team has 3 reliable knockups.

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

By situationally OP, I mean it could have 50% reduced knockup time, and I still wouldn't consider getting it unless the team has 3 reliable knockups.

That's fine; there are better options for other things, but at least there's some itemization for those 5 man knockup teams.

Daedalus871Oct 4, 20151 votes

You're not getting it. It would either be useless to the point where no on buys it or overpowered to the point where knockups might as well not exist.

It'd be item 3009 v2.0.

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're not getting it. It would either be useless to the point where no on buys it or overpowered to the point where knockups might as well not exist.

It'd be v2.0.

Maybe if the reduction WAS 50% like you said earlier, but as it is, 20% won't be so blatantly OP. Maybe Yasuo is a little too slow to capitalize on a knockup, maybe Vayne misses a few max-range condemns, it's not game breaking. It's not even as strong as taking a item 3075 into a 5 AD team comp. And as it is, knockups themselves are incredibly OP. Theres no reliable counterplay against it, and just the sheer amount of champions that have aoe knockups is just ridiculous; frankly, it NEEDS counterplay as it is right now. Have you ever been playing a tank and literally not be able to touch the ground for the good 5 seconds it took them to kill you? I have. And it isn't like knockups will all of a sudden stop being useful, but like merc treads, it will make it a little LESS useful.

Daedalus871Oct 4, 20151 votes

20% would mean it is never bought.

Dar RaksadaOct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you make a "gravity" effect separate from tenacity, it will be situationally overpowered or completely useless.

If you make "gravity" part of tenacity, then you got rid of the reason for knock-ups in the first place.

it might be good to get rid of the reason for knockups though, they still seperate themselves from stuns by being able to interrupt dashes.

Dar RaksadaOct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Knock ups/backs/aside aren't supposed to be counterbuilt. They are a cc that is supposed to be untenacitable.

That's how they were initially designed, but they were rare back then. However, there's been a bit of a knockup-creep since then which has made tenacity, cleanse, mikael's and qss feel much weaker. It happens often these days that I consider buying item 3111 , but after pressing tab and reviewing the enemy team I find out it's useless ( Thresh Kalista f.ex)

Baron of BreadOct 4, 20151 votes

There was some talk by Riot at some point about making tenacity apply to knock ups. Nothing has actually been done with that as far as I know but it was mentioned. I will probably edit this when I find where they mentioned that.

Big Bang BobOct 4, 20151 votes

I'm pretty sure tenacity not working against knockups is the point. It's like a mini suppress, so champs with short CC durations are guaranteed to have an affect on champs with tenacity (not that you see much beyond item 3111 ).

As for counterplay, if you take a look at all champs with knockups, you can see that all knockups are either close ranged (or at least require you to get close to an enemy), delayed/telegraphed, are ultimates, or are some combination of these (except Janna 's tornado, but that's a skillshot, for whatever that's worth), weaknesses that can easily be worked around.

As for Yasuo 's ult, it's a suspension, so it can be cleansed or reduced by tenacity.

Lysdexic1Oct 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Bang Bob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X0MfJOHZ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-04T19:31:44.745+0000)

I'm pretty sure tenacity not working against knockups is the point. It's like a mini suppress, so champs with short CC durations are guaranteed to have an affect on champs with tenacity (not that you see much beyond ).

As for counterplay, if you take a look at all champs with knockups, you can see that all knockups are either close ranged (or at least require you to get close to an enemy), delayed/telegraphed, are ultimates, or are some combination of these (except 's tornado, but that's a skillshot, for whatever that's worth), weaknesses that can easily be worked around.

As for 's ult, it's a suspension, so it can be cleansed or reduced by tenacity.

Diana JarvanIV Gragas Maokai Ziggs Zac Velkoz Syndra Sion Rammus Riven RekSai These are just the champions I can think of off the top of my head that have non-ultimate aoe knockups/backs/asides with small delays. There are more champions that have non-ultimate aoe knockups/backs/asides that have longer delays, and then there are a myriad of champions that have large sized aoe knockups on their ultimates. The champions themselves all have counterplay or matchups of their own, but there is no counterplay for their knockups. I think tenacity reducing knockups would result in it being too OP on it's own, so the better option would be to add a separate knockup reduction item.

Big Bang BobOct 5, 20151 votes

I didn't want to count knockbacks/asides because I though it would be awkward for for the units to be knocked back a shorter distance, but I suppose you could just travel the distance faster, while "projectile" knockbacks LeeSin Tristana are unaffected, so I'll take a look at those.

Diana Gragas JarvanIV Maokai Zac Rammus Sion Riven RekSai

All of these champs must get close to you (either because the ability is a dash or just short ranged) to knock you up/away, putting themselves in harms way. Riven 's knock up, while not having a very long delay, is very telegraphed, alongside Zac if you're far enough.

Sion 's knock up has a relatively long delay (1 second) so it's pretty easy to avoid.

Ziggs 's satchel charge breaks all of the previously mention rules (puts you close to enemies, delayed/telegraphed, or an ult) but has an incredibly long cooldown. Syndra 's also has a pretty long cooldown.

And finally, Velkoz 's E is yet another suspension and can be cleansed or reduce by tenacity. It still has a decent delay though.

Chuck CharlesOct 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Bang Bob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X0MfJOHZ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-04T19:31:44.745+0000)

I'm pretty sure tenacity not working against knockups is the point. It's like a mini suppress, so champs with short CC durations are guaranteed to have an affect on champs with tenacity (not that you see much beyond ).

As for counterplay, if you take a look at all champs with knockups, you can see that all knockups are either close ranged (or at least require you to get close to an enemy), delayed/telegraphed, are ultimates, or are some combination of these (except 's tornado, but that's a skillshot, for whatever that's worth), weaknesses that can easily be worked around.

As for 's ult, it's a suspension, so it can be cleansed or reduced by tenacity.

dont forget a janna can literally just ult him out of his ult so when he lands he lands on nothing. saw it in the CLG vs TSM series. aphro every single time bjergsen ulted just ulted him before he landed and it ruined his ult.

Big Bang BobOct 5, 20151 votes

That, I must see.