Am I the only support that likes to go without sightstone?

ArkenStorm·Aug 31, 2015·6 votes·3,367 views

this attached picture happened just recently. I never bought sightstone, but I did buy wards and upgraded trinket asap. Upgraded warding trinket gave me all the wards I needed, max wards out for me all the time. I never needed a pink ward really, but I probably should have bought some. regardless, I guess my point is sightstone is not absolutely necessary for a support.

Downvote me all you want folks, I'll still play this way.

EDIT: to remedy confusion on "support items where" I had frost queen's claim before rylais, which I sold for a blasting wand and got ardent censer to counteract the massive amounts of CC on the enemy team(black shield + 40% CDR)

88 Comments

ZACKandATTACKAug 31, 20158 votes

Sightstone is absolutely necessary for a good support. The amount of wards that a support needs to place is a lot. The 800 gold for sightstone pays for itself if you use your wards properly. Plus by getting yellow trinket over red trinket, you cannot deny vision and the enemy support will sweep your vision. This will leave all the money you used for wards to be wasted.

ArkenStormAug 31, 20153 votes

yellow trinket allows you to keep up max wards all the time, and vision wards are not hard to get. 250 gold for upgraded yellow trinket allows for building other items. Also there is such a thing as a jungler who smites raptors. both of them.

ZACKandATTACKAug 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

yellow trinket allows you to keep up max wards all the time, and vision wards are not hard to get. 250 gold for upgraded yellow trinket allows for building other items. Also there is such a thing as a jungler who smites raptors. both of them.

You can't keep max wards all the time if your enemies are good and sweep your wards. Even with sightstone it becomes hard to keep vision because of how much the enemy jungle/support will deny the vision you just placed.

ArkenStormAug 31, 20154 votes

"if your enemies are good" key phrase there. Upgraded trinket is cheaper, and when your enemies AREN'T good(see photo for proof of zero sweepers) then it really doesn't matter.

MCBiggah99Aug 31, 20155 votes

When you start climbing, I assure you you'll get completely fucked over for lacking a sightstone.

Valderis VandalaAug 31, 20152 votes

It's not about your enemies, your own team will play better and smarter and make fewer mistakes when they have vision, you buy it for your own team.

LordGeovanniAug 31, 20152 votes

if replaceing that vision is so important why doesnt everyone build sight stone or you trying to tell me that if one of a supports wards goes down the whole game is fuked but if its any one else's ward its cool and you can do without that vision because as long as support has 3 wards down compared to everyone elses 1 ward if they even place any

MatezoideAug 31, 20155 votes

Except you are building ''Support'' in this game. Wheres the gold generation item? Why Ardent Crescer when Morg doesnt have a Heal?

Anyway, not getting Sighstone isnt so bad if your entire team upgraded their Yellow trinkets and are actually using it (Including yourself), but this prevents you from denying vision/invisibility with item 3341

TrebbiAug 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Except you are building ''Support'' in this game. Wheres the gold generation item? Why Ardent Crescer when Morg doesnt have a Heal?

It works with shields aswell.

PunkkeeAug 31, 20153 votes

so you will only be able to give that small as buff to 1 person. the cost efficiency of the item is extremely bad on morg

ArkenStormAug 31, 20151 votes

It was a situational build in this game, building that put me at 40% CDR, so black shield had a 9 second CD. If you look at all the CC on the opposing team, I needed black shield up as often as possible. So many saves from leona.

Aeolian MelodiesAug 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It was a situational build in this game, building that put me at 40% CDR, so black shield had a 9 second CD. If you look at all the CC on the opposing team, I needed black shield up as often as possible. So many saves from leona.

There is so many good AP or support items with CDR that getting Censer for CDR is kinda >.>

Arcane AzmadiAug 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It was a situational build in this game, building that put me at 40% CDR, so black shield had a 9 second CD. If you look at all the CC on the opposing team, I needed black shield up as often as possible. So many saves from leona.

So where was your Mikael's to counter the Leona ults and TF Gold Cards that hit when your Black Shield is on cooldown (or on a different champion)? Oh wait, it doesn't have any AP and AP is the most important thing for a SUPPORT, how silly of me. So where was your Banner of Command to counter the magic poke coming out of TF and Corki? That has AP and CDR. Ardent Censer is TERRIBLE on Morg because Black Shield is something you have to save for when you really need it, not something you can throw out willy-nilly like Eye of the Storm, meaning you can't really make use of its buff.

LordGeovanniAug 31, 20152 votes

the small buff of being able to ignore spells for 3-4 seconds

1 800 MID LANEAug 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Wheres the gold generation item?

"I started spellthiefs edge"

DurzakaAug 31, 20155 votes

Upgrading trinket is fantastic.

And now your team doesnt have sweeper.

Sweeper is far more important than sightstone, but the only way to get that is if your team has a sightstone.

Just because youve won some normal games doesnt mean it is a good idea.

LordGeovanniAug 31, 20151 votes

use that same logic you just used and justify sight stone now knowing full well that Greater stealth trinket can put out the max amount of wards and can do it longer and more consistantly since its on cool down rather than having to return to base to refill and if you try to seige the enemy you will run out of wards with sight stone and useing sweeper you cant garentee its gold effeicent cause before you can deny vision you have to find wards and if you cant Guess the right bushes at the right time it becomes a useless item

DrCyanideAug 31, 20152 votes

Punctuation. Use it.
There are many times when you can see a ward going down in a bush, and know to clear it. There are other times where, regardless of if you find a ward, you want to make sure the enemy doesn't have vision (such as at the Dragon, Baron, or while you're setting up a death bush).
Your teammates often hold onto their Yellow Trinkets, since that's the only way they can contribute to spreading vision. If your team already has the additional Greater Stealth Totems, then your biggest vision need is the Sweeper. By not getting a Sightstone, you are forcing yourself to be less useful to the team.

Only Play DariusAug 31, 20154 votes

Support usually takes item 3364 to clear enemy wards (which is just as important as maintaining your own) so you usually should take sightstone.

LordGeovanniAug 31, 20152 votes

if you can guess where they are warding and lets be real no one upgrades trinket before their build is full unless you are a support who doesnt want to build sight stone situational exceptions for smart players but it more of a rule (habit people have but since people having the habit of building sightstone when its has a cheaper better to use counterpart is going to be called a rule that is can be called one too) than buying sight stone on a support

Shroom JunkieAug 31, 20154 votes

Well, you're technically supposed to be a support, not a damage dealer. Granted damage isn't bad, but generally having a Oracle's Lens is good to deny enemy vision and to make up for sight without having to spent hundreds by late game, you just spend 800 and get 4 wards to place every recall.

ArkenStormAug 31, 20152 votes

fair enough point, but 250 for upgraded trinket is cheaper. What also isn't shown though is that I started spellthiefs edge(because support item!). Sweeper is an invaluable tool, but we were winning pretty hard, so I didn't deem it necessary. Rylais + zhonyas + morellos shut down their wombo potential, and ardent censer(with the CDR, putting me at 40%) allowed black shield to be up every 9 seconds, ruining their cc, which was an extreme necessity if you look at their team.

UltraSceptileAug 31, 20154 votes

Basically you got really fed as support morg and then you just built pretty much pure AP and won.

Well it worked this game. But it's not supposed to work.

Morgana as a support should be building.....actual support. Gold generation item, probably frost queens. And then if you snowball you get hourglass. But afterwards you have to build.....actual utility. Locket of the Iron Solari, Mikaels, Zekes for the bonus AOE jinx crits........and of course, sightstone. To be a competent support you HAVE to maintain vision and deny vision with upgraded sweeper. I can win games as support without ever warding/using sweeper too if i get my ad fed enough, but it really isn't supposed to work. If you want to play Morg like that play her mid and keep up the warding, but as a support sightstone is invaluable, too important to just not buy.

ArkenStormAug 31, 20152 votes

I sold frost queens for the blasting wand after I bought rylais. I took ardent censer for the CDR on black shield(I had 40%) to ruin their cc. You keep up max wards with upgraded yellow trinket, and my jungler was really good about smiting raptors. I usually just buy vision wards.

Also I wasn't really fed. If you look at the game, those kills were pretty spread out.

UltraSceptileAug 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I sold frost queens for the blasting wand after I bought rylais. I took ardent censer for the CDR on black shield(I had 40%) to ruin their cc. You keep up max wards with upgraded yellow trinket, and my jungler was really good about smiting raptors. I usually just buy vision wards.

Also I wasn't really fed. If you look at the game, those kills were pretty spread out.

Ardent Censor was a bad buy, no one on your team needed the on hit to do anything. You were 10x better off with a zekes to boost jinx's damage output mid game by a mile.

You were against a corki and twisted fate, not to mention a leona, who all deal quite a bit of magic damage. I don't see the locket you could buy.

I see that your team snowballed which let you build damage. But I'm going to say this. You build sightstone because it's gold efficient for the entire game and you can then use these unlimiteid wards before level 9. You can play however you want, but you sightstone isn't necessary for a support, but I'm telling you, it is. There's a reason pretty much everyone builds it.

ZACKandATTACKAug 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Basically you got really fed as support morg and then you just built pretty much pure AP and won.

Well it worked this game. But it's not supposed to work.

Morgana as a support should be building.....actual support. Gold generation item, probably frost queens. And then if you snowball you get hourglass. But afterwards you have to build.....actual utility. Locket of the Iron Solari, Mikaels, Zekes for the bonus AOE jinx crits........and of course, sightstone. To be a competent support you HAVE to maintain vision and deny vision with upgraded sweeper. I can win games as support without ever warding/using sweeper too if i get my ad fed enough, but it really isn't supposed to work. If you want to play Morg like that play her mid and keep up the warding, but as a support sightstone is invaluable, too important to just not buy.

I usually start lane with spell thief's edge, and then switch to the ancient coin for the utility and extra gold generation.

The Queen ViperAug 31, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Am I the only support that likes to go without sightstone?

Unfortunately yes. You are playing supports wrong.

Sightstone is the core item. You can only get the upgraded yellow trinket after lvl 9 which is already quite late into the game but then also you don't have Sweeper to deny enemy vision.

Please, stop playing supports if you don't want to play them properly. You are only making it harder for your team to carry you and win the game when you are playing wrong.

ArkenStormAug 31, 20152 votes

"carry me" he says. Ha. funny. having more available wards on sightstone means nothing when the max is 3, and upgraded yellow trinket allows you to keep that limit up easily. Pink wards are a thing.

I'll keep winning playing my way as support. Worked out pretty darn well.

1000angrybeesAug 31, 20154 votes

It's really narrow minded to say that supports can't build what they please (in terms of adapting to the game or choosing what they think is best). I do think supports should prioritize vision and get sightstone, but after that (and getting red trinket) it's not set in stone that they have to build traditional support items. Also, some supports can definitely use those items to great effect, but some ARE better off building AP items to bolster their damage, heals, shields, and buffs.

Stop cramming supports in such a narrow frame. Not every support is the same.

(P.S. this wasn't aimed at the thread poster.)

ArkenStormAug 31, 20152 votes

I didn't think it was aimed at me. But I think what somebody else said works quite well for me, basically that sightstone is an excuse for people to not upgrade their trinkets.

IchimokurenAug 31, 20153 votes

I don't like it, because its quite useless, BUT its helpful, sure. The downside is you have to go around in the jungle to ward for your team. So I wonder, why the hell the jungler doesnt do sighstone then? >_> I go there to place wards and BAM dead, ganked by whole team in a piece of the bushes. So I only do if I need the HP, if not, meh.

ArkenStormSep 1, 20153 votes

Thank you. This reason is why I buy it on Leona sometimes. Also the junglers get much more money, and can buy/sell sightstone much easier.

siilentdeathAug 31, 20152 votes

problem is you probaly bought more than 10 wars which means you wasted your gold. sightstone is there to allow supports to not have to spend all there gold on wards. early game if my support isnt cummiting to buying a sightstone i go to passive play styles. based on a lack of vision i wont be agressive. if you go support you have to buy all support items and 0 ap items. you only are obligated to buy 1 item as the support. so just buy it and use it.

BeatzBoyFTWAug 31, 20152 votes

Being cocky by depending on only your upgraded yellow trinket can really cost you the game, if the enemy team were actual experts in sweeping away most of your wards(mostly just 2 wards from you each time) & has contained better map visions than you do. And you shouldn't have such high hopes for not buying sightstone for future games just because you successfully did it in ONE game.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=ArkenStorm

Done25Aug 31, 20152 votes

I HAAAATE biilding Sightstone. You know why? Because it's an excuse for my team to not spend 250 gold and upgrade their damned trinkets.

The item slot value sucks. The HP value sucks. It's 800 gold that the support, who has to work the hardest to earn gold, will be behind. 1600 gold if they're made to rush the upgrade for some reason.

ArkenStormAug 31, 20152 votes

see somebody who understands! Everybody is kinda ignorant.

Done25Sep 1, 20152 votes

Last game:

Zyra: "Thresh, why haven't you bought Sight Stone yet?" Me: "Why would I pay 800 gold to get a sight stone for you when you haven't you even spent 250 gold upgrading your trinket?"

ArkenStormSep 1, 20152 votes

I hate this so much. Especially when your ADC doesn't buy it.

Done25Sep 1, 20152 votes

Seriously. They get the most gold in the game. It wont kill their build to spend an extra 250 on their next B to buy an upgrade.

ArkenStormSep 1, 20152 votes

everyone can spend 250 gold on that. it's not hard, thats what, 5 or so minions? including gold generation.

CatastropAug 31, 20152 votes

Notice how your entire team also had their wards upgraded? Yeah that's why it works. It's not that Sightstone is a requirement, it's just half of the time, the team never upgrades.

ArkenStormAug 31, 20152 votes

exactly. Should I edit my OP to say that this was a 3-man premade with 2 extras? and TBH people I get in my games are pretty good about upgrading trinkets(I remind them often)

CatastropAug 31, 20153 votes

You must get some saints then. No matter how much I say "upgrade trinkets guys", it's like I'm just mouthing words at them(which wouldn't help anyway because they can't see me).

ZyorhistSep 1, 20152 votes

the trinket is actually better than sightstone. The reason people go sightstone is to free you up to get sweeper. sweeper clears enemy vision. having vision is strong but when you can clear out the enemies vision too you are much much better off.

ArkenStormSep 1, 20151 votes

oh I know why people go sightstone. I usually switch to sweeper once my team all upgrades their trinkets. If 3 people have item 3361 , 1 person has item 3363 , and the support has item 3364 , then I think the team has enough vision to go around WITHOUT sightstone. Until that happens though I just buy wards. Oh noes, 75/100 gold. People always pull the "oh you waste money on that" but forget that pots are a thing, and everybody buys those. you could argue that those are a waste.

ZyorhistSep 1, 20151 votes

9 wards out is fine and dandy, but there is a reason high level junglers buy a sight stone in addition to the support buying one as well. when you have 15 (20if you pinked) wards on the map you don't really miss out on anything.

ArkenStormSep 1, 20151 votes

sure, but you don't really miss out on anything with 9 either. Ward dragon, baron, all 4 buffs, and lone river bushes with a ward to spare. And if you get pink wards for some of those bushes(since nobody really buys yellow pink trinket that I have seen) then you have spares for tribushes.

ZyorhistSep 1, 20151 votes

sure you have the crucial spots warded. but what about catching people out, you cant really do that if you aren't watching more and more of the map. I commonly am placing wards out before my old ones expire, and there are commonly giant chunks of dark on the map where there aren't wards.

ArkenStormSep 1, 20151 votes

Well if that works for you, go for it. Even with only a trinket, you have extra wards before the last one expires and you can place them where needed. My point is that it is not absolutely necessary every single game to have a sightstone. Trinkets serve the purpose just fine.

ZyorhistSep 1, 20151 votes

I do agree with you. I'm not trying to say I don't, and given that this is written communication I feel that it needs to be said. I was just emphasizing the tradeoff that you make when you go upgraded trinket vs sightstone. I play both and it is largely dependent on how the game looks. If I'm the only one warding I'm going for the trinket, if I can put out a couple wards and my team will help I'm going sightstone. The main issue with sightstone is that you have to base way too much to make it worthwhile. If it generated wards it would be more useful.