I LOVE WHAT THEY DID WITH DARIUS, GAREN, SKARNER AND MORDE!

Macilento·Aug 6, 2015·3 votes·639 views

I LOVE WHAT THEY DID WITH DARIUS GAREN SKARNER AND MORDE! And i hope that other "old" champions get more or less the same job done, making them more unique. When you think about the "newer" champions (from 2012, but mainly from 2013) all the champions have a very unique playstyle and feel, that differentiate them ALOT. They kinda make the older champions looks boring in that sense since they dont have all of these unique stuff.

Look how different Kalista is from other adcs, Look how different Bard or Tahm feel from other supports, look how different Azir is to other midlaners, Reksai is so different from other junglers, And so is Gnar from the toplaners. Just to name the most recents one. Evne if you go some years back the champions there were already pretty unique, think Lissandra, Zac, Quinn, Yasuo.

I know many people dont like the changes, but i really do not understand why, they are literally giving you new mechanics and stuff to work with, and many of these things are net buffs too.

17 Comments

Variks the LoyalAug 6, 20153 votes

New mechanics are cool. But if it's worse than what we have now, I'd rather not have it.

I love Skarner. He's one of my favorite champions, and I'll admit, the idea of his mere presence causing Crystals to rise from the earth around the Rift is really cool and has a lot of potential, and the idea of something similar to Dominion, because Skarner used to be from the Crystal Scar, is pretty neat. But that potential, in it's current iteration, is squandered.

Take Mordekaiser. Nothing about his new kit, aside from taking Dragon as a slave, fits with his thematic. He's a hulking, haunted suit of armor that thrives on pain and suffering. "Their sickness sustains me." That theme fits much better in a solo lane/jungle than in a duo lane where he has to team up with another person (Unless he's Pentakill Mordekaiser teaming up with Pentakill Sona). If he thrives of pain and suffering, why does he use Metal Shrapnel as a protective shroud for an ally?

It's these sort of things that make it undesirable. When I play the new Mordekaiser, I will be very aware that I'm playing a character in a video game. As opposed to when I play Sion, when I feel like an unstoppable juggernaut warrior. As opposed to when I play Rengar, when I feel like a hunter who makes trophies of men. When I play Gangplank, when I feel like a daring and dangerous pirate captain. With Mordekaiser and Skarner, I will feel like I'm playing a video game, not like I'm playing Mordekaiser and Skarner.

MacilentoAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

New mechanics are cool. But if it's worse than what we have now, I'd rather not have it.

I love Skarner. He's one of my favorite champions, and I'll admit, the idea of his mere presence causing Crystals to rise from the earth around the Rift is really cool and has a lot of potential, and the idea of something similar to Dominion, because Skarner used to be from the Crystal Scar, is pretty neat. But that potential, in it's current iteration, is squandered.

Take Mordekaiser. Nothing about his new kit, aside from taking Dragon as a slave, fits with his thematic. He's a hulking, haunted suit of armor that thrives on pain and suffering. "Their sickness sustains me." That theme fits much better in a solo lane/jungle than in a duo lane where he has to team up with another person (Unless he's Pentakill Mordekaiser teaming up with Pentakill Sona). If he thrives of pain and suffering, why does he use Metal Shrapnel as a protective shroud for an ally?

It's these sort of things that make it undesirable. When I play the new Mordekaiser, I will be very aware that I'm playing a character in a video game. As opposed to when I play Sion, when I feel like an unstoppable juggernaut warrior. As opposed to when I play Rengar, when I feel like a hunter who makes trophies of men. When I play Gangplank, when I feel like a daring and dangerous pirate captain. With Mordekaiser and Skarner, I will feel like I'm playing a video game, not like I'm playing Mordekaiser and Skarner.

Thank you for your answer :D, well i agree on some parts with you, but i definetly feel that all the other champions maybe exept Morde as you said, got a net increase of owining their own identity. Like skarner going berserk near crystals, controlling crystals and stuff, that's just genius. Garen Seeking out the "villain" of the other teaam is exactly what make you feel good when playing that character.

On the other hand the changes on morde are big, so it's harder to udnerstand them, and i can feel you on the act that he doesnt look like the type of champ that goes with a buddy on bot. But that's true to other champions as well, i don't feel like thresh is someone who care particulary about having a partner, so does Lucian and others.

I think it's more about getting used to it and maybe learning something more about him. In the end he is still in need of a visual rework (wich may get him in a better position ) and also probably his lore need work.

So all in all i understand your concerns, but on the other side i think you should be way more exited by this stuff :D

And morde goign around with the dragon is another of those genius things

Variks the LoyalAug 6, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Thank you for your answer :D, well i agree on some parts with you, but i definetly feel that all the other champions maybe exept Morde as you said, got a net increase of owining their own identity. Like skarner going berserk near crystals, controlling crystals and stuff, that's just genius. Garen Seeking out the "villain" of the other teaam is exactly what make you feel good when playing that character.

On the other hand the changes on morde are big, so it's harder to udnerstand them, and i can feel you on the act that he doesnt look like the type of champ that goes with a buddy on bot. But that's true to other champions as well, i don't feel like thresh is someone who care particulary about having a partner, so does Lucian and others.

I think it's more about getting used to it and maybe learning something more about him. In the end he is still in need of a visual rework (wich may get him in a better position ) and also probably his lore need work.

So all in all i understand your concerns, but on the other side i think you should be way more exited by this stuff :D

And morde goign around with the dragon is another of those genius things

Yes, I agree, the idea of Skarner controlling crystals and gaining power within their proximity is really cool. But it is not executed well. In it's current state on the PBE, Skarner is a worse champion overall when not near a crystal. Moreover, his enemies can steal the crystals from him, and gain advantages as a result. His new passive will be absolutely worthless during a siege, or a base race, or a tower dive, or a gank, and only sort of good during either a Dragon/Baron fight, or a counterjungling instance (Either on Skarner's part or his foe's).

As for Thresh having a partner, I can believe it more than Mordekaiser, because Thresh is more like, I'm going to torment you and make your life hell, then laugh as forces beyond your control kill you and grant your soul to my lantern. Mordekaiser is, I'm going to break your bones, crush your limbs, and then prevent you from dying so you can feel even more torment. I always did think a tankyer, fightery Mordekaiser would make much more sense than his current, bursty state. But if you took his new kit except his ultimate, and rethemed the abilities, it wouldn't be out of place on Taric.

Critmaster GarenAug 6, 20152 votes

i actually find that the morde changes make a lot of sense.

at least the part where they added ad scalings to his kit and put more power into his q than his e. as you already said, hes a gigantic hunk of walking metal. it makes no sense that he plays like a poke mage, who comes close enough to hit you with his e from a distance, and then runs away and repeats when his e is back up. walkign up close and smacking someone into the face with his giant mace makes more sense. lets be honest, who maxes q on him right now? the thing is mostly for show.

he might need buffs and tweaks from where he is now, but he makes so much more sense as a heavy melee bruiser than a poke mage.

the ability to duo lane instead of an adc is interesting. maybe they help him out so it still stays as an option to solo lane or possibly even jungle. someone mentioned the idea of allowing him to take other jungle monsters as pets aswell. would be kindof interesting to take the ghost of the big wolf to help him through his jungle clear.

MacilentoAug 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF5ysILt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-06T10:47:46.299+0000)

i actually find that the morde changes make a lot of sense.

at least the part where they added ad scalings to his kit and put more power into his q than his e. as you already said, hes a gigantic hunk of walking metal. it makes no sense that he plays like a poke mage, who comes close enough to hit you with his e from a distance, and then rusn away and repeats.

he might need buffs and tweaks from where he is now, but he makes so much more sense as a heavy melee bruiser than a poke mage.

the ability to duo lane instead of an adc is interesting. maybe they help him out so it still stays as an option to solo lane or possibly even jungle. someone mentioned the idea of allowing him to take other jungle monsters as pets aswell.

Im exited for that as well, what i don't like is that you cannot cast W without an ally near, that's is a bit limiting... I mean you could have the W on yourself maybe with a reduced effect, but at least you could use it in other situations (eg. Jungle)

Best Darius KRAug 6, 20152 votes

Dude what are you talking about Riot ruined their kit. Did you even read the changes?

Crowe StalkerAug 6, 20151 votes

Not just the kit, they ruined the base stats too. Good luck playing bruisers who have a hard time even getting in range in The League of Kiting.

If anything this patch is just a ridiculous buff to Ashe and Kalista disguised as a 'Rework to Bruisers'

SuperLuigiLXIVAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not just the kit, they ruined the base stats too. Good luck playing bruisers who have a hard time even getting in range in The League of Kiting.

If anything this patch is just a ridiculous buff to and disguised as a 'Rework to Bruisers'

Not that I'm claiming to be for or against the updated kits, but how exactly is it a buff to those two ADCs to rework the kits and stats of four champions who are barely ever played in the first place? What are they gonna do, win more games where Garen is not picked?

Crowe StalkerAug 8, 20151 votes

I should have clarified better: most of these Reworks are reducing the base movement speeds to 330 or 325. Ashe and Kalista would excel against opponent with little movement spped and no guaranteed gap-closer.

Most people in the first week will pick up these champions under Riot's promise that they have been reworked and/or improved, where these two will becone extremely dominant due to their high kiting potential.

It's like playing against Release Bard: Their kits are garbage and everyone wants to try them, so champions who counter them or can abuse windows of opportunity they present will excel. Of course, it will be temporary, but the Freelo Train gives no Cares.

AtheosisXAug 6, 20152 votes

You don't play any of those champs do you?

MacilentoAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You don't play any of those champs do you?

I play them and im exited for the change, i dont worry mcuh about the numbers, those will be adjusted, im exited about the mechanincs and the possibilities they offer you

Crowe StalkerAug 6, 20151 votes

Here's my rant on why these 'Mordekaiser Changes' will literally leave him as nothing but a husk of a 'Champion' that no one will realistically pick, Duo Queue or otherwise. I suggest that anyone watching these changes read it and understand why Mordekaiser players are not even slightly pleased with these changes. Why in fact, anyone that has ever played Mordekaiser now feels cheated.

I don't play Mordekaiser much anymore, but I played him a lot Pre-30 and he was very fun to play. If PBE goes live, he'll be a joke, more than Lane Poppy could ever be.

EDIT: Here's a good thread on why Darius' Rework is bad.

Critmaster GarenAug 6, 20151 votes

actually how is titanic hydra on morde? im thinking with his new q, the thing could actually have a lot of punch. hes not as tanky when it comes to solo laning, true. but that doesnt automatically mean his solo laning is gutted.

the synergy with the item might be rather nice considering the range it gives him off the aoe while giving him a little surivivability.

and the people who played him in solo lane. i usually saw them max e first instead of q, which might not be a good choice. like very early on maxing q might be powerful enough to trade and to survive until he gets that hydra and gets good aoe waveclear going together with the item and his e.

ShénzhìAug 6, 20151 votes

I love it too! :d

Except Darius is concerning me. He's not Nasus yet he sounds like he should be Nasus with his new Guillotine sound. know what i mean? O.o

Big LincolnAug 8, 20151 votes

My thoughts on Mordekaiser after playing him more, lengthy read I'm sorry:

tl;dr my suggestions, revert W, revert the base MS, put some power from his Q back into his E and work on his ult a little more

Q is better, but it's a lot less interesting. Damage is WAY too front-loaded onto it which makes me think it's the only way they could make it feel powerful. I feel like I could be playing Olaf or Shyvana when I'm doing it, except I'm giving up more spread-out damage for up-front burst. I always thought it was much cooler being described as him slapping you so hard that everyone near you will feel the pain. I wouldn't mind some of the damage being slightly traded off for this capability on the second and third hits, which would also improve his massively reduced waveclearing potential. Additionally, it needs to be bugfixed so that it applies on-hits properly on the second and third hits.

His 325 base movement speed is just stupid. You can't punish a melee champion for building movespeed items so he can get into melee range easier. Can you imagine if Udyr or Singed or Volibear or Olaf or literally any melee champion with no means of immediately closing the gap besides running at you were given this change?

W just flat-out sucks. I hate this ability now. The passive is invisible power, it's ally-cast only (which breaks the immersion of game feel, as it has no business or reason to be such), the damage is down, you don't get resists, and you traded ALL of this for a measly heal and the XP passive. This just needs a total revert with exception to the heal, though I can definitely live without it.

E suffers because of Q's raised DPS. Its lowered damage makes it much less satisfying to use, especially on his AD builds that Riot seems to want to be pushing. While it still hurts hard on his AP build, it could use a little damage tweaking. I think slightly upping E's AP ratio would keep his AP build a strong alternative.

R is moving in a good direction. More power in the ghost, less power in the stats, and dispensing that power to the rest of his kit. While I feel the dragon is FAR too powerful to be healthy, it's vaguely countered by his inability to ult anyone until it dies. Perhaps a cooldown or grace period between dragon's death and his ability to ult if it isn't already on CD is necessary. I think the range nerf was too harsh, though.

Passive shield is much better for all builds except raw glass cannon ones, but really he should always have at least one HP item and a few that grant him resists -- he can grab a good chunk of all of these stats without losing his offensive power.

I think that unless W gets reverted, this rework will be a flop. With the rest of his new kit, Mordekaiser is actually much more than a "cool whacky new idea" for a bruiser bot lane -- he can go anywhere and work. His jungling power is actually very potent now, he can go mid lane, he can go top lane, and he can even go bottom lane. And on top of that, he can build anything and he'll still be able to work. I know Riot, for some arbitrary reason, decides to hate AP Mordekaiser (despite it being the obviously superior choice for gameplay and lore) but right now, he can still work pretty damn well. If tweaks are made, I think a lot of opinions could be swayed from this being a terrible rework to one of the best.

MacilentoAug 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF5ysILt,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-08-08T05:58:18.380+0000)

My thoughts on Mordekaiser after playing him more, lengthy read I'm sorry:

tl;dr my suggestions, revert W, revert the base MS, put some power from his Q back into his E and work on his ult a little more

Q is better, but it's a lot less interesting. Damage is WAY too front-loaded onto it which makes me think it's the only way they could make it feel powerful. I feel like I could be playing Olaf or Shyvana when I'm doing it, except I'm giving up more spread-out damage for up-front burst. I always thought it was much cooler being described as him slapping you so hard that everyone near you will feel the pain. I wouldn't mind some of the damage being slightly traded off for this capability on the second and third hits, which would also improve his massively reduced waveclearing potential. Additionally, it needs to be bugfixed so that it applies on-hits properly on the second and third hits.

His 325 base movement speed is just stupid. You can't punish a melee champion for building movespeed items so he can get into melee range easier. Can you imagine if Udyr or Singed or Volibear or Olaf or literally any melee champion with no means of immediately closing the gap besides running at you were given this change?

W just flat-out sucks. I hate this ability now. The passive is invisible power, it's ally-cast only (which breaks the immersion of game feel, as it has no business or reason to be such), the damage is down, you don't get resists, and you traded ALL of this for a measly heal and the XP passive. This just needs a total revert with exception to the heal, though I can definitely live without it.

E suffers because of Q's raised DPS. Its lowered damage makes it much less satisfying to use, especially on his AD builds that Riot seems to want to be pushing. While it still hurts hard on his AP build, it could use a little damage tweaking. I think slightly upping E's AP ratio would keep his AP build a strong alternative.

R is moving in a good direction. More power in the ghost, less power in the stats, and dispensing that power to the rest of his kit. While I feel the dragon is FAR too powerful to be healthy, it's vaguely countered by his inability to ult anyone until it dies. Perhaps a cooldown or grace period between dragon's death and his ability to ult if it isn't already on CD is necessary. I think the range nerf was too harsh, though.

Passive shield is much better for all builds except raw glass cannon ones, but really he should always have at least one HP item and a few that grant him resists -- he can grab a good chunk of all of these stats without losing his offensive power.

I think that unless W gets reverted, this rework will be a flop. With the rest of his new kit, Mordekaiser is actually much more than a "cool whacky new idea" for a bruiser bot lane -- he can go anywhere and work. His jungling power is actually very potent now, he can go mid lane, he can go top lane, and he can even go bottom lane. And on top of that, he can build anything and he'll still be able to work. I know Riot, for some arbitrary reason, decides to hate AP Mordekaiser (despite it being the obviously superior choice for gameplay and lore) but right now, he can still work pretty damn well. If tweaks are made, I think a lot of opinions could be swayed from this being a terrible rework to one of the best.

thanks for the answer, but it hink you got wrong one things, Riot doesnt want morde to be AD, his AD scaling on his Q is just to create a smooth power curve for him if he is in botlane. Also he has an ap scaling on it too. THey are jsut trying to break the meta a bit with som e experimentation, , theoretically you should go Morde bot only if you have an AD mid, but even better an ADC mid. Like you should go varus, sivir, ezreal AD mid if you go morde bot

Big LincolnAug 8, 20152 votes

he gained an AD scaling on his E as well

Mordekaiser now functions very well as an AD caster due to the nature of Q being 3 hits encouraging at least -some- attack speed. While his AP build will outdamage the AD on his Q, you need to build more AP for it to scale beyond what AD would give you, making his AD bruiser builds viable for strong, but weaker, sustained damage with more durability as compensation.

The thing is, W very much encourages if not outright forces you to go into bot lane. The lack of a self-cast and the passive makes it much more fitting to push him bot as you are actually losing team XP if you send him into a solo lane now. Currently, if sent bot, his W passive makes it so that he gains full XP by killing minions, which means that you can send someone else into a solo lane, and now 4 people will gain full XP, with only the team's support falling behind.

I feel like that's an incredibly unfair mechanic both to Mordekaiser's team (being encouraged to shove him bot, even if he doesn't really want to go there) and the enemy (Mordekaiser can ignore you in favor of farming last hits and then he's suddenly level 6 while you're still level 4.) If his current W was tweaked to live values (more damage but over a longer duration, can be self-cast, etc), the passive removed and only maybe adding his heal with some sort of condition to it, I would give this rework an A+

It's just.. mind-boggling how close Riot came to making this champion truly able to thrive in every environment, and just changing one ability that currently tries to stifle that versatility would make this a rework that actually encourages real diversity.