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A match-up question, Yi vs Yasuo in lane.

SEKAI··2 votes·2,156 views

Say, if you lane Master Yi and get a matchup against Yasuo, how are you even going to do about that?

Yasuo is literally Yi, if he's also good in early and mid-game. Sure, Yi deletes Yasuo somewhat easier in late game, but geez that's like 35min+ we're talking about here, and that's ONLY IF Yi dodges the tornado otherwise it's the other way around.

In lane, Yasuo has no resource, has lower CD, has higher damage, has higher sustain, higher mobility, higher dueling power (you can't even duel him when there are ally minions around, and you still just lose when there aren't anyway), has wayyy better poke, has CC, has the god sodding QQQQ that is extremely hard to dodge because you're at point blank and the hitbox is bigger than my mum etc etc etc.... the only thing that Yi does better is that he has higher MS?

Seriously, what should a Yi do when he's up against someone who just straight up destroys him in his own game, as a wet-dream version of himself? Why does Yasuo exist when Yi already fills that niche (hell, at least Fiora is no longer a Yi #2. Then Yasuo gets made)?

23 Comments

PermabannedGaren2 votes

{quoted}

has higher damage

No he doesn't. Master Yi has higher base AD at all stages of the game and his E even at rank 1 gives his autos much higher damage per auto than Yasuo has early game.

has higher sustain

Yasuo has literally no sustain, Yi has Meditate to regen health.

higher dueling power (you can't even duel him when there are ally minions around, and you still just lose when there aren't anyway)

This is frankly probably bullshit. In an AA war Yi should win early game. Even Qs shouldn't tip the scales in Yasuo's favor.

has wayyy better poke

And this is the big reason Yasuo beats Yi in lane. His constant Q poke and mobility mean he can easily favorably trade with the rather limited Yi. This is true of most meta top laners.

has CC, has the god sodding QQQQ that is extremely hard to dodge because you're at point blank and the hitbox is bigger than my mum etc etc etc.... the only thing that Yi does better is that he has higher MS?

Melee Q's hitbox is one of the most precise in the game lmao.

Seriously, what should a Yi do when he's up against someone who just straight up destroys him in his own game, as a wet-dream version of himself? Why does Yasuo exist when Yi already fills that niche (hell, at least Fiora is no longer a Yi #2. Then Yasuo gets made)?

Yi's design is dated and frankly not as healthy as Yasuo's. They also aren't particularly similar. In a 1v1 mid to late game where Yi isn't behind there is no contest: Yi stomps Yasuo, and almost anyone. He curbstomps Yasuo with no effort and with virtually no ability to outplay on Yasuo's part.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

No he doesn't. Master Yi has higher base AD at all stages of the game and his E even at rank 1 gives his autos much higher damage per auto than Yasuo has early game.

Yi has less than 5 AD more than Yasuo at the start, and at lvl 18 he only has 1 more base AD. Base means quite little. What matters is ability damage.

Sure Yi has Alpha and Wuju which all have quite the punch, but Yasuo has double crit, and a spammable kit (besides W) that dishes damage, CCs (often at point blank), jumps around and whatnot. It's clear that Yasuo often has higher ground to deal damage despite Yi probably has more in terms of raw.

Yasuo has literally no sustain, Yi has Meditate to regen health.

Meditate is on a fixed 35 sec cd without CDR, costs both resource and time (channel and CD), and can be easily interrupted by someone like Yasuo if used in combat. Yasuo's shield comes back every couple seconds with no internal CD nor cost, this pretty much cucks Yi's "jump" on him (either alpha engage/poke and the first hit of Wuju engage).

This is frankly probably bullshit. In an AA war Yi should win early game. Even Qs shouldn't tip the scales in Yasuo's favor.

Yasuo doesn't engage in an AA war, he has his own spam wars to do. And what makes Yasuo so hard to deal with as Yi is his E, before Q after. E allows Yasuo to pick where to fight, and have the high ground while fighting in lane almost at all times. As pointed out by another, Yi can only realistically win Yasuo 1v1 if he somehow baits him into a fight in river or jungle otherwise there is little hope.

And this is the big reason Yasuo beats Yi in lane. His constant Q poke and mobility mean he can easily favorably trade with the rather limited Yi. This is true of most meta top laners.

I thought you said Yi should win early game just above.

Melee Q's hitbox is one of the most precise in the game lmao.

I'm talking about the tornado's enormous hitbox, and the fact it's often used at point blank.

Yi's design is dated and frankly not as healthy as Yasuo's. They also aren't particularly similar. In a 1v1 mid to late game where Yi isn't behind there is no contest: Yi stomps Yasuo, and almost anyone. He curbstomps Yasuo with no effort and with virtually no ability to outplay on Yasuo's part.

A healthy champ won't be gathering an extreme amount of hate and a shockingly high ban rate across most of the elos/divisions. An unhealthy champ won't be only hated in low elo range almost exclusively. Your definitions are off.

And no, even in mid-late game, YI vs Yasuo is a 50-50. If Yi gets the jump, he wins, if Yasuo lands the tornado, he wins. Meanwhile Yi can not win against Yasuo in lane, this is by most people's admission and yours too even though you sorta denied but then come around agreeing to it (mostly because you wanted to move the goalpost to push the notion that Yasuo is more healthy than Yi. I at least see that much).

Stars Shaper1 votes

Yasuo double crit doesn't get anything good over Yi passive until he has 2 crit items. Quit thinking that Yasuo starts the match with a ready item 3031.

I guess even the basic Yi knew nto to use a selff rooting, channeled heal over time inside the battle.

Yi Q can dodge Yasuo tornados

Yi has better 1vs1 and chase ability

Yasuo can't build Life Steal early exactly ebcause he is forced to go into crit items which makes Yi a far better farmer and dueler in the early stages. Lategame Yi has just so much damage that Yasuo ramp up makes him useless against decen Yis.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aAEMrU0Z,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-05-22T09:31:04.596+0000)

Yasuo double crit doesn't get anything good over Yi passive until he has 2 crit items. Quit thinking that Yasuo starts the match with a ready item 3031.

Double crit is just 1 part of a statement I was making.

I guess even the basic Yi knew nto to use a selff rooting, channeled heal over time inside the battle.

Yi can not disengage in a battle. Running backwards isn't a disengage, and even if it is, Yasuo will just be right behind Yi and poking at his ass.

This means W can really only be used when there's nothing going on and you want to regain some of your HP back as a Yi vs Yasuo in lane. Meaning it has little use in terms of combat sustain in this matchup.

Yasuo's shield and dash on the other hand, seems to be a bit better by comparison.

Yi Q can dodge Yasuo tornados

Not when Q's CD is as long as my horse's D, and that Yi most likely can't finish off Yasuo before Yasuo's Q comes off CD.

Yi has better 1vs1 and chase ability

If Yi uses his Q to dodge, he won't have chase in the fight. Yasuo chases better than Yi in general as long as there are minions around to spare.

Yi only has better 1v1 if they 2 are completely isolated and fighting in a vacuum, think about the amount of times that would actually happen. And even then, if Yasuo lands a nado it's still all over for Yi, especially after 6.

Yasuo can't build Life Steal early exactly ebcause he is forced to go into crit items which makes Yi a far better farmer and dueler in the early stages. Lategame Yi has just so much damage that Yasuo ramp up makes him useless against decen Yis.

Yi can not duel Yasuo in a lane scenario, because he'd get poked all day and get denied farm. To use your argument, Yi doesn't start the game with a item 3153.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Want to have a hard matchup as Yi? Try Mordekaiser, you'll take back Yasuo any time of the day.

Tornados are not sure hits, you can dodge them and if you keep giving Yasuo the eprfect setup then it's your fault. Yasuo base stats make him unable to go toe to toe against any melee unless he is already ahead, also Yasuo pushes lane a lot more than Yi and you can farm in a safe spot. The same safe spot you can use to heal up because, you know, you don't have to dash to get to safety, you can walk (faster than Yasuo too).

I'm not saying that you need a full BotrK, just getting a first buy Vampiric scepter is enough, I'm in no way a Yi expert but his passive is sure damage, not an icnreased chance of so even if Yasuo comes back with item 3086 he still doens't have a sure critical hit.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aAEMrU0Z,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-22T09:53:44.381+0000)

Want to have a hard matchup as Yi? Try Mordekaiser, you'll take back Yasuo any time of the day.

Tornados are not sure hits, you can dodge them and if you keep giving Yasuo the eprfect setup then it's your fault. Yasuo base stats make him unable to go toe to toe against any melee unless he is already ahead, also Yasuo pushes lane a lot more than Yi and you can farm in a safe spot. The same safe spot you can use to heal up because, you know, you don't have to dash to get to safety, you can walk (faster than Yasuo too).

I'm not saying that you need a full BotrK, just getting a first buy Vampiric scepter is enough, I'm in no way a Yi expert but his passive is sure damage, not an icnreased chance of so even if Yasuo comes back with item 3086 he still doens't have a sure critical hit.

Yi gets destroyed by Morde, like it's not even funny to look at, I've tried that. But it's okay, because Yi and Morde are 2 different champs.

In case you're wondering, the reason why I get this frustrated is that Yasuo and Yi are extremely similar champ, and Yi has very little amount of ways to play against Yasuo in a lane despite their similarity. That's just beyond annoying. Like, unless Yi baits Yasuo into fighting in jungle with no one come to their aid, otherwise Yi straight up can not win against Yasuo in lane assuming the samurai player actually has a brain.

..................

Also nados are not sure hits, but there are 2 issues with this statement:

  1. It ignores that its hitbox is just a tad too big.
  2. It ignores that it has very little CD and no cost.

This is the same problem with old Nid's spear and Lee's Q, being hit is not a matter of skill in aiming and dodging, but an inevitability due to how easily spammed and abused it is, as well as how powerful and reward it is when it does land.

..................

I do not agree with the notion that Yi can farm in a safe spot. Because Yi has less range than Yasuo almost all the time and alpha can not even guarantee minion kills unless 3 levels in, let's not even mention how long the CD is especially when you don't have something to keep bashing on to reduce its CD. In other words, Yi has to last hit in melee range, while getting constantly harassed across mid or long range by the opposition Yasuo. Yi can not fight Yasuo when there is minions because he will just get kited and whittle down if not just killed outright from jukes. Yasuo also has that regenerating shield that can block Yi's counter-harass. Yasuo also has higher mobility (in lane) in minion waves due to E. And even just farm under turret, Yi will still just get harassed. And eventually Yi will just run out of resource to use both Q and W, as well as missing a ton of CS because of the harass.

..................

I tried VampScepter, it doesn't work, I just get rolled by Yasuo for the reasons explained just above. The small health return with that means very little when you are harassed non-stop, can not return the harass, can not duel Yasuo when there are minions around, still get harassed under turret, and with higher CD as well as that your resource runs out while Yasuo's don't.

And Yasuo scales just as hard as Yi.

..................

Idk man, I'm so salty.

LyingOnLine1 votes

Yi is an incredibly shit laner.

What you should do is either pick up a champ who is decent in the toplane, or start playing jungle.

Asayake 5150glow4 votes

{quoted}

Yi is an incredibly shit laner.

What you should do is either pick up a champ who is decent in the toplane, or start playing jungle.

He's not incredibly shit, but Yas just fucks him over.

I say that because Wuju style gives Yi a lot of damage early on, and if you get 3~4 autos off with it up at level 2 or 3, that was a trade massively in your favor. However, Yas trades a lot better and won't give Yi the opportunity to get more than 1 auto off.

LyingOnLine1 votes

He is incredibly shit. Nasus is a better top laner than Yi is.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

He is incredibly shit. Nasus is a better top laner than Yi is.

Well, no, Yi does more damage than Nasus does early game... and Yi scales pretty well too, Titanic into Bork gives a very strong laning phase.

Spicy Rice1 votes

U wot m8?

Yi has one of the best, if not the best scaling ad/base ad in the game.

If you know how to use him, he is an amazing laner

LyingOnLine1 votes

That would be wonderful...if it was at all relevant. Being good as a laner is not a manner of whatever one base stat you care to pick and choose.

Aeszarck1 votes

It's a tough lane, but Master Yi has the advantage outside of the minions. He'll get destroyed while Yasuo has minions to play around.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

It's a tough lane, but Master Yi has the advantage outside of the minions. He'll get destroyed while Yasuo has minions to play around.

No league players will for no reason engage others when there are no minions around so catching him without minion is almost impossible to begin with.

And since you'll spend most of the time getting poked and hiding behind/outside of the minion wave, Yi will also be under-farmed. So even if that outside-minion-duel were to happen by some off-chance, Yi most likely won't win anyway. And even if he has the edge, he won't have the power to nail Yasuo down in early levels, all Yasuo needs is disengage and reset to the poke routines and Yi is useless in the lane.

For me, it really feels like what Blitz mains feel about Thresh, where the latter is just all-around a better version of the champ he mains. And that doesn't feel tasteful really. But aye, I supposed it's not that bad with Yi at least he at least jungles better than Yasuo, but still in lane he just feels inferior to Yasuo and that's really annoying tbh.

Aeszarck1 votes

{quoted}

No league players will for no reason engage others when there are no minions around so catching him without minion is almost impossible to begin with.

And since you'll spend most of the time getting poked and hiding behind/outside of the minion wave, Yi will also be under-farmed. So even if that outside-minion-duel were to happen by some off-chance, Yi most likely won't win anyway. And even if he has the edge, he won't have the power to nail Yasuo down in early levels, all Yasuo needs is disengage and reset to the poke routines and Yi is useless in the lane.

For me, it really feels like what Blitz mains feel about Thresh, where the latter is just all-around a better version of the champ he mains. And that doesn't feel tasteful really. But aye, I supposed it's not that bad with Yi at least he at least jungles better than Yasuo, but still in lane he just feels inferior to Yasuo and that's really annoying tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDz_smcWr50 is a good video explaining what I mean. Play safer in lane and fight him in the jungle where he can't dash.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDz_smcWr50 is a good video explaining what I mean. Play safer in lane and fight him in the jungle where he can't dash.

That helps a great ton clearing it up. Thanks.

Though I am not personally too convinced of its effectiveness because that relies on 1) the Yasuo is expected to help other lanes, and do otherwise more "team" actions which make them predictable/bait-able in some way, which doesn't happen in my elo and it's all chaos here (both ranked and norms) and 2) the player themselves is not aware of Yasuo's weakness of being handicapped without his mobility. That and, the trick probably can not work more than once or twice (though that's probably all it needs to win a lane).

Still, good info there, will come handy at some point. Thanks again.

swiftsnipe1 votes

I would say that yi loses most top lane matchups.

He has tools to help him like his double strike for trading and q to dodge abilities but by laning yi you are generally putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Aeszarck1 votes

{quoted}

I would say that yi loses most top lane matchups.

He has tools to help him like his double strike for trading and q to dodge abilities but by laning yi you are generally putting yourself at a disadvantage.

The weird thing about Yi is that you feel really strong because your auto attacks do so much damage and he has a heal too, and yet he still only does mediocre in top lane. The funny thing is that he's a Darius counterpick, who is known for being a terrifying melee bully.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

I would say that yi loses most top lane matchups.

He has tools to help him like his double strike for trading and q to dodge abilities but by laning yi you are generally putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Sure Yi generally is disadvantaged in top or any other solo lane, and is expected to be behind. That's true. But generally Yi from my experience still has some room to just farm under turret and poke the backline minions with alpha to hopefully get a hit on the enemy champ, and hang onto it til jungler gets here; or that Yi could exploit the lvl 2 rush with Wuju Style if confident.

However when up against Yasuo, there is very little Yi could do it seems as the lvl 2 rush is no longer valid, and Yasuo would just poke Yi under turret with infinite Qs so you miss either CS or HP, and challenging him in a duel usually just ends badly for Yi too.

Are there are ways Yi could do in that situation (you see, Yi jg is too meta, I'm trying to lane him like the good o' days. Or that's not possible at this stage)?

swiftsnipe1 votes

old lane yi was AP. He doesn't have AP scaling anymore

Rewt1 votes

Yi isnt balanced around top lane. He is balanced around jungling. This means he isnt meant to try and go 1v1 toe to toe with something like a yasuo. he just isnt balanced for that.

Commando Yi1 votes

build cultlass and ninja tabi while he rushes statik shiv you can now 1v1 him when there are no minions around

Darkdemon6531 votes

{quoted}

Say, if you lane Master Yi

Don't do that.

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