In depth Morde Vs. Mobility

GigglesO··5 votes·915 views

The reason that they don't like champions like morde are simple. He has no mobility and no CC. CC is the counter to mobility, so what do you do when a champion has neither? The answer is simple, you have to make them grossly overpowered at what they can do.

When you look at their ever so favored mobility champions like Lee Sin, you have to:

  1. Be in the right place.
  2. Use your skills in the right order. It looks something like this. I need to dash to the right location with q or w, kick someone, dash back to them again with q or w,, get my slow off on them, while fighting with second w, slightly use my passive so I can get my second e off, all while keeping in the right location to have the most effect. Seems pretty straight forward right? The straight answer is no, and that is why people consider him a "high skill cap" champion.

Well what happens when you don't have the power to be in the right place at the right time?

  1. Your skills need to be stronger to compensate while you get to the right place at the right time. It looks something like this, Did I get the skill off because I properly aimed it while someone danced around me by pressing all of my buttons and trying to click on the enemy.

So why is this considered an issue? Well to be flat out honest its because the second makes champions binary and non-interactive, which is something that they regularly have issues with. If your abilities are too easy to hit, then people get frustrated because they don't understand that the difficulty in playing the non-mobility champions are actually aiming and hitting your skills.


Now for the balance issue, make the mobility too easy (historically zed ulti), and the "high skill champion" is too easy to play. Make immobile champions abilities too strong or easy to hit, and it makes mobility champions feel underwhelming. What Riot doesn't seem to understand is that to balance out the paradigm they need to find a happy medium between loving mobility champions and binary champions, which is hard to do, and why they favor mobility champions.

To be honest, morde is actually currently in a pretty good state, and doesn't need another rework to push him further from his identity of always shield, never die. Not all champions should have meaningful choices. There was an old discussion on why vlad Q didn't have meaningful game-play interaction. Riot's original response, was that not everything needed to have a weakness, because they could have the weakness elsewhere in their kit, or in matchup, or even team fight interactions. Flash forward to current day Morde, what is so binary about his kit that Riot, and players hate playing against him? It's that non-nuke level consistent damage WILL NOT kill morde. If the enemy has low enough damage you could even 1v5 (assuming you have the bonus stats from dragon)


That leads to my next part of the discussion, how to currently handle Morde and his identity.

Players across all parts of MMRs have (mostly) full access to his full power, similar to Garen, the reason why Riot sees a discrepancy between high MMR players and low MMR players is because of Matchup knowledge, and knowing exactly what fights they can and can't win. High MMR players try not to fight if they know they can't win the Matchup, and will often farm until they are in the right position to fight.

So now we hit the age old question of how we buff a champion without giving the top end of the spectrum a flat buff?

Free up W to be fully self castable. Lower MMR players tend to go in 1 at a time, while higher players tend to team fight more often. This would offer Morde at all levels of gameplay more self readability, but as stated helps the lower MMR players more because of how teamfights pan out in lower MMRs. To top it off, you could even make it so that his ally still functions as it does now, so we don't get old ap morde interactions of placing W on a tank and watching your ally destroy someone without Morde even being in a teamfight.

Lower his W MS, in favor for more Base MS While this may sound like a buff to all mordes at all MMRs, due to how teamfights work in Lower MMRs This again frees up morde to get into position better without the use of a teammate. However if W's MS is reduced by 35, and his base increased by 15, in higher MMRs he would still have a harder time getting to the enemy in a teamfight setting. The risks of this is making his lane phase stronger across all MMRs.

Make E larger, but reduce shielding slightly Hitting E can be extremely hard to hit, but is super rewarding when it hits champions appropriately. The reason why this would be a buff at lower MMRs but not as much at higher MMRs is because lower MMR players have a harder time landing skill shots, and it is already a binary skill. Potential issue is that higher MMR mordes get to hit 1 more champion slightly more often, but with a small shield % nerf it could end up being a moot point argument.

Make his passive scale off of all damage, instead of just magic damage. This one is slightly harder to justify as a low MMR buff, but it opens up build paths to get a shield out of more than just AP damage heavy builds. From what I've seen tanks are more viable in lower MMRs, as people typically don't position properly to avoid being damaged, making high damage builds harder to play. This would allow a larger variety of builds to function better, opening up tank and ad builds. Titanic hydra splash damage, sunfire cape, thornmail, or even liandris building shield would be absolutely amazing. The potential risk to this is that morde's across all MMRs would be able to generate shield more efficiently. The reason I don't see it being an issue is that alot of the builds that it would allow seem to function worse at higher MMRs.

The last way we could balance out champions like morde is to have Melee and Ranged version of juggernaut items. A few items that gave morde alot of power, stereks gauge being a prime example, were nerfed because of other classes using them too well. The only issue with this is a buff like that is a buff across all MMR's.


Final thoughts, we need to stop favoring the skill that it takes to play a mobility champion because it is seen as "high skill". Both mobility and non-mobility champions take a different set of skills to play. That and In my personal opinion the nerfs and buffs that riot are doing right now to mobility champions like Lee Sin who function better in High MMR aren't going to work. His R nerf is a nerf across all MMR's. If they want to appropriately nerf lee sin, they need to change his second Q to deal less damage, and make his R less reliant on kicking an enemy champion into another enemy champion. The positioning just isn't there in low MMR's to kick someone into another enemy, or to even do a really cool second Q combo with a W dash out, but what do I know, I'm just another player.

Final Takeaway, is not all champions need an entire rework just because they don't fall in line with Riot's paradigm, instead sometimes small changes should be made to balance a champion. A lot, of reworked champions go from 1% playrate ----> 100% pick or ban ---> nerfed ---> right back to 1% playrate. Then the community wonders why they go right back into the rework pool (ryze anyone?).

8 Comments

M0RDEKA1SER2 votes

I'm a fan of all the ideas presented here. Well put. Hopefully MM sees this and pulls his fan base over for more upvotes.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

I'm a fan of all the ideas presented here. Well put. Hopefully MM sees this and pulls his fan base over for more upvotes.

I wish it could garner more attention from the community in general, the whole buff nerf issue is a matter of mmr. It's hard to buff something for high MMR without making it broken for low MMR and vise versa. Discussions like this could spur ideas for riot to explore for a better all around game.

M0RDEKA1SER2 votes

They need to just balance everything around professional play. It would further encourage lower mmr players to practice more and get better. Trying to balance for lower mmr isn't going to help anyone.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

They need to just balance everything around professional play. It would further encourage lower mmr players to practice more and get better. Trying to balance for lower mmr isn't going to help anyone.

I tend to agree, it would give anyone that really learns a champion the ability to climb through low MMR. With the new 10 bans coming up, if there is a huge issue with a few champions in low MMR they can get banned.

Mordepool1 votes

Well presented.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

Well presented.

Thank you, please feel free to add input. I don't want to be the only one giving input on Morde, as my opinion is not the opinion of all morde players.

I'm just tired of seeing champions like Vlad, Morde, and ect... left in the dust because Riot doesn't value anti-playmaking through shields, healing, or damage. I'm also tired of Riot tending to favor mobility as the "takes skill to play", while forgetting that anti-plays can take skill. I've lost many Morde Fights simply because they out maneuvered me, or even danced circles around me to where I couldn't hit them to get my shield. Both take skill, both require a separate balancing mindset.

ExiledTyrant1 votes

I agree that Mordekaiser doesn't need huge changes in the short term to make them playable again. The main reason original Morde worked with no mobility was because his damage came off in cycles. If you set up a 3 second engagement 2-3 times it usually meant you won. This time span was just quick enough that it helped overshadow some of his glaring mobility weaknesses. The rework more than doubled the engagement time needed while still maintaining the same amount of engagements needed to win. Now that so many core items and masteries have been nerfed the glaring weaknesses of his design have been made more apparent.

The solution could definitely be solved through more self reliance and increased mobility. Things that could help are:

-Removal of cast times on his abilities while moving. Anyone who played old trundle understands the massive improvement on his overall kit after simply removing the cast time on his abilities. Stopping to cast, even for .25 seconds, puts just enough gaps in a chase to make just out of reach champions impossible to catch.

  • Give back his top tier attack speed scaling. People always thought that Mordekaiser having top tier attack speed scaling was an oversight. In reality it did a great deal for his consistency and movement. This is because it allowed him to reach a 1 attack per second swing timer very easily. When you attack below 1 second there is a noticeable delay while attacking and moving at the same time. It is very easy to cancel your attack by mistake while moving. Resets like this waste time and add a clunkiness to attacking while moving. Something Morde has to do a lot of.

  • Grant tenacity when W is active or a cleanse when reactivated. Mordekaiser has to walk at people a lot. Skill shots that are usually balanced by having to aim them get to enjoy their full power at point blank range. To make walking at someone easier Mordekaiser needs some way to resist or counter all of the CC coming his way. Without that his win condition ( getting a full Q off 2-3 times) becomes even harder to accomplish. An example would be:

Harvester of Sorrow - Mordekaiser wreathes himself in a a maelstrom of living metal dealing X magic damage and leeching x health for 5 seconds. Grants 20%/30%/40%/50%/60% tenacity and 75 move speed for the duration.

Harvester of Sorrow - Mordekaiser wreathes himself in a a maelstrom of living metal dealing X magic damage and leeching x health for 5 seconds. Reactivating this ability doubles the cooldown and cleanses all debuffs from Mordekaiser. Cooldown 10/9/8/7/6.

  • Make his mace of spades 2 hits instead of three. Reducing the number of hits needed to deal mace of spades damage would greatly reduce the up time Morde needs to set up a kill. Two swings gives some reaction time without making his overall needed up time overly obnoxious.

With regard to the OP I do believe W should go back to becoming a selfish ability. There is power there that could push his solo damage back up without having to buff his Mace of spades. I do however think he needs more than just movespeed. It is already easy to get out ran even after dedicating your build to movespeed. I think there needs to be more of a push to make CC less sticky on Morde to really make a difference.

As far as making E larger I am against it simply because E pushes the wave. When laning you want to do that as little as possible and aiming the cone so it trades with your opponent but also doesn't push your wave is hard enough as is. A bigger cone would just mean more wave pushing which means more openings to be ganked while trying to stay in Exp range.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

-Removal of cast times on his abilities

I think there needs to be more of a push to make CC less sticky on Morde to really make a difference.

I really like all of the points that you presented, but these were two of my favorite. Cast times really do interup things like attacks, which can mess up his 3 hit power making him feel clunky.

The second comment is really to a similar effect. All they need to do is make him feel less clunky in combat, and cc reduction would really help with that.

Then again they could bug fix him and see where he is in terms of clunkyness after the fixes too...

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