Possible Solutions to AP Bruiser Lack of Itemization

Frosted Tips··7 votes·5,725 views

Hextech Omnisythe

Hextech Revolver + Catalyst of Aeons + Kircheis Shard + 583 gold = 3333 gold

50 AP 300 Health 300 Mana 25% AS 10% CDR

Passive: Lightning Bolt - Damaging an enemy champion with a basic attack shocks them for 80-250 (based on level) bonus magic damage. (4 second cooldown)

Passive: Eternity - Restore mana equal to 15% of damage taken from champions. Restore health equal to 20% of mana spent, up to 15 health per cast, while toggle abilities can heal for up to 15 per second

Passive: Moving and attacking generates Energize stacks, up to 100. When fully Kircheis Shard Energized, your next basic attack gains Energized Strike.

UNIQUE – Energized Strike: Your next basic attack steals 10% of your target's movement speed and grants it to you for 2 seconds.

Placehilder Name (AP Maw)

Seeker's Armguard + Amplifying Tome + Ruby Crystal + 1115 gold= 3050 gold 55 AP 45 Armor 250 Health

Passive(Melee only) - Once you are dropped to 30% health gain a 200 shield and 60% damage reduction. While the shield is active you become silenced excluding your summoner spells. (Does not cancel channels)

Placeholder Name (AP Black Cleaver)

Needlessly Large Rod + Kindlegem + Dagger + = 3000 gold

70 AP 300 Health 20% AS

After using your ultimate ability for the next 20 seconds your basic attacks grant you stacks of Grace(Melee only)(Cooldown: 30 seconds)

Grace stacks up to 5 time granting the user 6% magic penetration per stack up to 30% and lasts the rest of the duration.

Gunther's Untattered Cloak (AP Sterak's)

Blasting Wand + Negatron Cloak + Ruby Crystal + 830 gold = 2800 gold

40 AP 40 Magic Resist 300 Health

Passive(Melee only) - After receiving 50% of your maximum health in damage within 2 seconds remove all CC effects and gain a magic damage shield for 250-1100 based on level. (Cooldown: 150 seconds)

Problems:

  1. Itemization 1a. Lack of items 1b. Mage abuse 1c. Tank abuse 1d. Assassin abuse
  2. Unique Stat to Scale with.

1a. AP Bruisers lack the items needed to be an effective build. There build paths lack something no matter how you build them. Either they lack AP, CDR, Health, Armor, Magic Resist, or Penetration. So, I believe that a new set of items would drastically improve the balance and health of the AP Bruiser class.

1b. The first complaint or concern when trying to make or suggest items for AP Bruisers is that mages will abuse these new items. That is totally valid and likely, so to combat that these new items will either be made completely melee only or make their passives melee only. It is as simple as that.

1c. On this regard tanks are likely to abuse AP Bruiser items because they scale with health AP and CDR and I think they best method of fixing this is to reduce AP scaling or to remove HP scalings on tanks so that to do damage on tanks you have to build AP and it is a legitimate hindrance to their builds to build AP. Maybe give tanks more Armor and Magic resist scalings.

1d. Made the AP low and also tried to delay some of the spikes in power so assassins would be forced to last longer in the fight to get more effective use out if the item which assassins really can't do because they will get blown up.

2.I believe that there is a solution to adding another stat that AP Bruisers like, but it would require Tanks scalings to be switched up. I think that Tanks should scale only with AP so that it actually hinders their builds to deal damage and I think that AP Bruisers should receive some bonus Health scalings. This would mainly be in their defensive abilities, but some may work with offensive abilities and I mainly. Secondly not with the current items I have made, but if different items were made then Mana could be the scaling for AP Bruisers, but that would mean Kassadin and Ryze would need to have their scalings changed.

Let me know what you think. Also I just thought about the Mana scaling so let me know if you think that is a better stat to balance AP Bruisers around since only Kassadin, Ryze, and AP Bruisers would have to change. I'm going to work on some Items that would work with the Mana scaling unless it is drastically shot down in this.

38 Comments

Håppy6 votes

what in good god's name is that first one, a Gunblade active, a Catalyst passive and an Energized effect??

nm10101 votes

It's ap triforce, the idea has been thrown around a few times.

Håppy3 votes

{quoted}

It's ap triforce, the idea has been thrown around a few times.

...DO YOU MEAN LICH BANE??

nm10102 votes

Lichbane is not the ap version of triforce lol, it is just an ap sheen item. This is actually a worse version of the previous iterations, some of which had a baby deathcap in them instead of the Kircheis Shard.

Håppy1 votes

{quoted}

Lichbane is not the ap version of triforce lol, it is just an ap sheen item. This is actually a worse version of the previous iterations, some of which had a baby deathcap in them instead of the Kircheis Shard.

lich bane is literally an ap triforce. triforce is a sheen item. that's the appeal of it. that's why you build it. people who build triforce build it for the sheen proc. just like with iceborn and just like with lich bane.

nm10101 votes

Yes it is just the sheen proc, totally not the 6 stats and 2 passives that bruisers love. Not the nearly 130% gold efficiency without passives (lichbane is ~80% gold efficient without passive). Not the powerspike playstyle that compliments bruisers’ natural power curve. All sheen items are just flavors of sheen and totally equal for their various classes.

Irelia Bot3 votes

{quoted}

It's ap triforce, the idea has been thrown around a few times.

The problem is that is going to end up being a straight out mage item.

If a AP trinity is wanted why not have an adaptive force base item added which then builds into phage and having trinitiy's spellblade do adaptive damage based on the amount of bonus AD or AP a champ has.

Glaricion1 votes

V5.22 Ability power removed.

[sg-soraka]

Frosted Tips1 votes

Actually the it is an enhanced version if Revolver passive. Yeah it has a bunch going on and it may need to lose something.

heroikc2 votes

Omniscythe might not be too bad...though I may remove the active; seems a bit overtuned.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Crap I miss typed it is a passive. And I think it is very important to have but, lowering the numbers/increasing the cooldown may be needed.

heroikc1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3dEHVIr,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-22T00:23:26.655+0000)

Crap I miss typed it is a passive. And I think it is very important to have but, lowering the numbers/increasing the cooldown may be needed.

I'd probably just combine the Lightning Bolt with the Energized effect.

Hemulen Magi2 votes

Keep 'em coming. Continue posting AP bruiser itemization concepts until Riot finally implements some. I agree we need another item 3191 item.

WotlkDeceive1 votes

memes and games.

Frosted Tips1 votes

?

WotlkDeceive1 votes

Ap Itemization is the best , you get hp with almost every AP item you get

lets not forget the best champions right now are AP.

your items are so damn overloaded

Frosted Tips4 votes

AP Bruiser itemization not mage or battle mage itemization. AP Bruisers do not have any item that is not used better by mages.

WotlkDeceive1 votes

your items can easily be abused by Diana or lissandra or another good mage with a good potential , giving a lot of stats in one item with an overpowered passives/actives is not a good thing.

Frosted Tips3 votes

Diana is actually supposed to be a fighter so she should use these. How would Lissandra abuse these items when they are melee only?

Tahminatrix 1 votes

First itemFizz

Second item Nunu Morgana

Third item no...one version of black cleaver is bad enough (its intended users don't even touch it and prefer trinity while assassins abuse it) although its hard to think of a champion that would want to build flat magic pen but is also melee in order to abuse the %+flat combo...oh wait nvm...Nunu Katarina

Mr would be useless against that.

Poske1 votes

The items are to weak

If you are gonna design a bruiser ap item it needs to give more then 300 hp The actives seem more of ANTI ASSASSIN TOOLrather then making them live in teamfights

Overall you have no idea what you are doing with your suggestions and havent put much thought in it Your suggestion also mostly has Diana and none else in mind

Frosted Tips1 votes

Morde would use some of these well, as well as singed, Gragas, and Sylas.

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3dEHVIr,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-22T14:38:33.686+0000)

Morde would use some of these well, as well as singed, Gragas, and Sylas.

Morde wouldnt use any of this and if he would it wouldnt FKING MATTER because he still wont reach ANYTHING Singed would use gunther perhaps Gragas would use gunther perhaps

Sylas works with full AP and doesnt require bruiser itemization (That is clear to everyone) + Sylas being released in such way pretty much says what Riot thinks about AP bruiser itemization

Every single item you suggested is a massive noob bait except gunther which you would see mages rush to nullify already weak Le blanc, Zoe ETC as it screams abysall scepter

Your items are really inefficient I mean I understand you are suggesting stuff on boards.. last thing you want is for items to be called OP well you created an opposite reaction from a peek chall player,

I also just hate the idea of self silence, it would piss off a wearer most of a time

So here are some tips

Dont make bruiser items give less then 500 hp 50 mr 65 armor (Unless they give multiple of "tank stats" ) Why do you have boner for attackspeed? Drop that boner, Diana needs some kit changes to be a bruiser anyway Stop making anti assassin shields / effects

You want effects which makes AP bruisers TANKY in teamfights NOT 1v1

JeaneGreene1 votes

Leblanc ain’t weak.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Leblanc ain’t weak.

Let me consult #1 LB world He said that Le blanc is a trash pick

Frosted Tips1 votes

Morde wouldnt use any of this and if he would it wouldnt FKING MATTER because he still wont reach ANYTHING

Why would he not use Gunther's? It literally is great for him. Removing CC would be insane for him since that is his and all Juggernauts biggest counter.

Sylas works with full AP and doesnt require bruiser itemization (That is clear to everyone) + Sylas being released in such way pretty much says what Riot thinks about AP bruiser itemization

To the first part yes he does work full AP, but that is because Riot admitted that they gave his kit insane power so that he could survive with the current lack of AP Bruiser items. Meddler even said they were working on some items, but they were not working out so far. Sylas wants to be a true bruiser, but can't because Riot has yet to release AP Bruiser items.

Every single item you suggested is a massive noob bait except gunther which you would see mages rush to nullify already weak Le blanc, Zoe ETC as it screams abysall scepter

How are they a noob trap? Also mages can't run Gunther's since it is melee only and the stats are abysmally low for champions that need high AP.

Your items are really inefficient I mean I understand you are suggesting stuff on boards.. last thing you want is for items to be called OP well you created an opposite reaction from a peek chall player,

If you look at the stat values all the items I made are between 85-100% efficient which us pretty on par for items in League. Also they have some pretty strong passives, but I mean those can be ignored if you want.

Dont make bruiser items give less then 500 hp 50 mr 65 armor (Unless they give multiple of "tank stats" )

Do you know how much gold that would cost to make items like that? They would have to be like 4k per item or only offer like 20 AP.

Why do you have boner for attackspeed? Drop that boner, Diana needs some kit changes to be a bruiser anyway

One attack speed is very nice on many AP Bruisers. Two yes Diana needs small changes to be a a bruiser (mainly number changes imo) but her passive would probably stay.

Stop making anti assassin shields / effects

These effects are great in team fights and they are modeled after AD Bruiser items so they seem to be the direction Riot likes to take, and why is it bad that Bruisers have anti assassin effects?

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3dEHVIr,comment-id=0005000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-22T16:47:18.878+0000)

Why would he not use Gunther's? It literally is great for him. Removing CC would be insane for him since that is his and all Juggernauts biggest counter.

BECAUSE HE DOESNT REACH ANYTHING IN A FIRST PLACE

Sylas being released in such way pretty much says what Riot thinks about AP bruiser itemization

To the first part yes he does work full AP, but that is because Riot admitted that they gave his kit insane power so that he could survive with the current lack of AP Bruiser items. Meddler even said they were working on some items, but they were not working out so far. Sylas wants to be a true bruiser, but can't because Riot has yet to release AP Bruiser items.

Thats fair

How are they a noob trap? Also mages can't run Gunther's since it is melee only and the stats are abysmally low for champions that need high AP.

Because they are to weak

If you look at the stat values all the items I made are between 85-100% efficient which us pretty on par for items in League. Also they have some pretty strong passives, but I mean those can be ignored if you want.

They are around 8% to weak except the last one

Do you know how much gold that would cost to make items like that? They would have to be like 4k per item or only offer like 20 AP.

I never said include every stat

One attack speed is very nice on many AP Bruisers. Two yes Diana needs small changes to be a a bruiser (mainly number changes imo) but her passive would probably stay.

No not number changes, kit changes

These effects are great in team fights and they are modeled after AD Bruiser items so they seem to be the direction Riot likes to take, and why is it bad that Bruisers have anti assassin effects?

Frosted Tips1 votes

BECAUSE HE DOESNT REACH ANYTHING IN A FIRST PLACE

One that is supposed to be his weakness, and this item would help since it would be harder to CC lock, and two, he is getting another rework this year.

They are around 8% to weak except the last one

Hextech Omnisythe is 95% gold efficient without any of its passives which is not bad when compared to other similar items.

AP Maw I may have been too harsh on, but it I add just 5 AP so it is at 60 AP then it is 93% efficient without it's passive.

AP Black Cleaver is 93% efficient without its passive which is really strong.

The items are overall cheaper than their counterparts and I think that should be taken into consideration meaning that they will hit item spikes earlier than their opponents if they are AD Bruisers.

I never said include every stat

They could really only have 2 stats per item if they had that high of an individual stat. Also why should they have more/equal HP or Armor, or Magic Resist, to tank items?

No not number changes, kit changes

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3dEHVIr,comment-id=000500000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-22T18:04:55.968+0000)

One that is supposed to be his weakness, and this item would help since it would be harder to CC lock, and two, he is getting another rework this year.

Hextech Omnisythe is 95% gold efficient without any of its passives which is not bad when compared to other similar items.

Unless you are Ryze / kassadin / building both seraph + this item its inefficient (which no champ would do) Mainly the mana is useless because you ll build lost chapter item first

AP Black Cleaver is 93% efficient without its passive which is really strong.

Bruiser item / 300 hp choose one, and no that passive aint strong prob the worst passive on your items Most of a time by the time you get decent pen a target should already be dead / is dead

If anything it sounds like a kaisa / Ori item

I still dont like the self silence imagine getting tilted due to self silence you have no control over but rather the enemy has since they are dropping your HP

Its not about agreeing / disagreeing

I told you my concerns, I would personaly design better ap bruiser items and rework the existing ones like zhonya ( which active shouldnt exist AT CURRENT POPULARITY but thats a complex unknown issue)

We do definetly need another Armor / AP item and a bruiser item

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

item 3170

Frosted Tips1 votes

Mages would hard abuse it.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3dEHVIr,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-22T17:44:20.916+0000)

Mages would hard abuse it.

Simple solution.

Make it melee only.

There, problem solved.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Without its passive that item is 124% gold efficient which is insane and it does not solve 2 major AP Bruiser problems. Yearly ways to get atleast to 20% CDR and no good Penetration item since building Void is like building LDR on Illoai.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3dEHVIr,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-22T18:40:26.142+0000)

Without its passive that item is 124% gold efficient which is insane and it does not solve 2 major AP Bruiser problems. Yearly ways to get atleast to 20% CDR and no good Penetration item since building Void is like building LDR on Illoai.

It's a defensive options, it's not supposed to grant tons of CDR and Magic Penetration.

Bruisers need defensive options too, you know?

Frosted Tips1 votes

Yes they do and that is fine to add, but they need much more than that item.

FSRER1 votes

And now imagine jax with all those items. Now imagine itemization vs them, cause not only there is not enough mr in the game, such items would throw the game way too off balance.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Ok and Jax could get adjusted which he already needs to be, and the same thing could be said about when they added regular bruiser items and when they added lethality and when they added a bunch of mage items.

Illabethe1 votes

Boy...... you like overloading items..... 4 second cooldown on 80-250 damage auto attack? Wow. Annie would have a field day.

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