Give a true equivalent of 
. Or if you want to be truly equal, raise the price of 
to 1300 and put the Stasis active on it. Really tired of AD mids spending 1300 gold to become impossible to all in.
AD champs get all the good items. There are now 3 items to negate magic damage, yet there's still only one for AP. Can any rioter explain the discrepancy?
Sahn Uzal68 votesPeople seriously need to stop comparing AD itemisation to AP itemisation Riot made sure there are a lot of differences between the 2. Stop asking for an AP version of AD Item or an AD version of AP Item It's not gonna happen, for a good reason.
Mages are NOT in need of a buff, at all. Lethality items are in need of a nerf though.
Risen294 votes[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a0oRg90X,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-02-13T18:45:04.934+0000)
Mages are NOT in need of a buff, at all. Lethality items are in need of a nerf though.
No, they aren't. For 2900 gold with Zhonyas you can nullify all the lethality the other player spent over 9k gold to buy, and you get AP and a nice active on top of it.
You aren't entitled to be survivable against an AD assassin with 9k gold worth of lethality, as an APC, when you can't be bothered to spend an extra 800 gold on a chain vest on top of your zhonyas. Or buying health/AP items.
CudyDarkyz13 votesjust a question. What do we do with said chain vest?
Glory ln Death4 votesYou can upgrade to GA. Not sure if there's any other really useful alternative.
CudyDarkyz2 votesYa only useful thing is GA. I actual started getting it second/third buy. Gives me armor/MR. "i dislike buying Abyssal Scepter ever sense the change to it so i just get a negcloak and sit till i want the GA" It Stops dives before they even start, and in team fights the mind game of "don't focus the 10/0/3 Taliyah she has a GA no point" is a lot stronger then it sounds. I can see why people may disagree, I personal wish for a new armor item that gives mana regen think Morellonomicon, but the CDR changed to armor, with a new item in it, that gives armor/mana regen like how lost chapter gives damage/mana+regen.
I can live with how the game is now. My only issue is how strong the items snowball. I can deal with my lane if they build said items, but can't when a 6/0/0 4 item riven tells me i have to stop laneing.
DeathBot66610 votesAlthough you are right, he does have a point. The only viable choice for an AP to build against AD is , building into 
or get 
, and neither of them make for a good item for get first, unless for a really specific reason. meanwhile AD mid laners can build 
into 
, into , 
, or 
for MR, both can be rushed first (Excluding boots). Maybe an AP version of isn't the best answer, but their still should be some defensive item which can be viably purchased first on mid laners.
Steel Blossom14 votesAre you trying to say that / rushing don't sap the damage of AD mid laners...?
NineTailedMystic5 votesQSS yes, which is why they don't rush it. Hexdrinker, not really.
Steel Blossom8 votesFrom personal experience, is almost 10% less damage than 
. Usually, against mid laners who don't rush any armor, I can basically 100-0 them with ignite at level 6, with a , and I definitely cannot say the same for when I rush .
NineTailedMystic2 votesIf they don't rush at least Seeker's then they're garbage or cocky.
"Oh no, I can't 100-0 them, it's not like I can't poke them once and then 90-0 them".
Steel Blossom4 votesLol the 100-0 has a range limit tho. They also have to be like way out of their tower and not land any CC. The 100-0 I'm talkin about is just potential max damage.
MissingKayo1 votesWe get it. You're a mage main. But try to be reasonable when you debate. No one cares about made-up horseshit.
NineTailedMystic2 voteswat
ModIts Yuu and Mi3 voteswat
Yeah this thread is special, also, really nice FEK
Mira Arya Enthe9 votesThank you, some brains in this outfit. God damn whenever mages aren't present in all 5 lanes it is the end of the world to mage mains. Meanwhile tanks only whine when pushed completely out of meta.
Ralanr29 votesAP burst champions are supposed to be better than AD burst champions late game.
Supposed is the keyword here.
MaeDoSan2 votesWhen was that ever the case , adcs were supposed to be the best but are they ?
Ralanr12 votesLook at items that build from tear and items like RoD. Mages were supposed to be geared for mid to late.
MaeDoSan1 votesthey are called carries for a reason with the most costly items in game
Ralanr12 votesAnd the term "APC" was a thing.
MaeDoSan1 votesnever was meta it was adapted from adc
Ralanr11 votesI'm just saying that mages are supposed to be geared for mid to late. I never said they were the kings of late.
paperbIade1 votesI'm just saying that mages are supposed to be geared for mid to late. I never said they were the kings of late.
mages cant kill tanks
Ralanr9 votesSustained mages can.
SH Azykan8 votes
{{champion55}} 
are all very capable of killing tanks
Dark Nephthys1 votes[{quoted}](name=7th Syn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a0oRg90X,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2017-02-13T22:19:24.352+0000)
Now when you mean tanks..what kind of tanks are you talking about and are you talking about late game mages versus late game tanks? As in full-build? Because if so..
Yes to them being able to kill tanks
She can kill tanks but it would kill her mana and it really depends on what tank it is because if she gets jumped on then she will pop before she can kill some tanks.
I can see him if he is able to kite the tank a bit while hitting both procs of his Q and E which becomes much easier with 
.
would have to really poke the tank a bit and hope they can kill them before they reach him.
Syndra might have the one-shot potential to kill a tank but would leave her useless against other people until her ultimate is back up and the tanks can possibly live her ult. Orianna wouldn't have the damage to kill a tank, maybe able to run away.
I don't see how a tank would die to him. Maybe if he kills Karthus and then was trapped in his passive for an extra few seconds and died there but most tanks could just ignore him and kill him.
SH Azykan3 votesorianna has short enough cd's, you arent killing them in 1 rotation but she can get off many rotations. Anivia with liandries and a void staff melts tanks if she traps them in a good wall + ult ziggs and xerath are really kite strong mages, similar thing as orianna, they have rylais then the tank literally will not get in range to matter while ziggs and xerath poke them to death. syndra is in the same boat as orianna.
Idk why people when they argue mages cant kill tanks forget, you arent just getting off 1 rotation. you arent bursting a tank (a tanks only valuable if they aren't 1 shot after all) but they can definitely kill them
also, there is a reason karthus has shown back up in top lane, and its definitely not jayce and riven
Auz the Ripper3 votes was the original super-high DPS mage
he had the highest until and were released
350 (+.8 AP) per second is nothing to laugh at, especially with his 15% MR shred
Asayake 5150glow12 votesAnd sure, ignore the 
health and AP items.
Meanwhile AD only has 
for health and AD.
Sure AP doesn't have armor, but that's because armor is way too effective against armor pen. Health is a much healthier stat, as it keeps AD assassin damage relevant while still making you tankier, especially against other AD.
Guyy Fieri19 votesAnd sure, ignore the
Meanwhile AD only has
Sure AP doesn't have armor, but that's because armor is way too effective against armor pen. Health is a much healthier stat, as it keeps AD assassin damage relevant while still making you tankier, especially against other AD.
To be fair ad also has Frozen Mallet, TriForce, Steraks Gage...
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Gnarles Barkleyy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a0oRg90X,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-02-13T19:51:13.101+0000)
To be fair ad also has Frozen Mallet, TriForce, Steraks Gage...
As if anyone mid who's AD and isn't Ezreal is gonna build those.
resumed19 votesweird how you narrowed it down to ad mids when ads are dominating every role except support o_O??
Asayake 5150glow1 votesweird how you narrowed it down to ad mids when ads are dominating every role except support o_O??
Ok well Frozen Mallet is barely bought, Steraks is only really bought 4th item, and mainly defensive, and Triforce is only bought on champions who abuse Sheen.
On the other hand, RoA is a good pick up on any mage looking to scale, Rylais is good for a bit of CC and health, as well as being cheap (it's a Steraks with less defenses, aka no shield, but more damage), Protobelt is pretty much the same thing, Liandry's is good with any DoT, although a bit too expensive and not too efficient, and the magic pen is godly against ADC's.
resumed11 votesroa is not a good pickup on any mage, some mages like velkoz, syndra, xerath, etc, do not get any use out of this item. rylais is now only useful to the champions that it was absolutely core to as it is not just this huge ball of stats anymore. protobelt has terrible slot efficiency and falls off, and is only useful to champions like diana, kennen and situational pickups on champions like annie who need to get close to do anything. liandrys is a really good, well rounded item, but again mostly used by its core users, not simply a pickup on any mage as other items would help them more like zhonyas or abyssal.
other than for the core users, those items are situational as hell. but the ad health items do not have as many dedicated core users as the mage items do because the ad itemization is a lot more broad than the ap itemization. mages like zyra and brand are literally balanced around buying rylais liandries EVERY game, champions like vi and quinn are balanced around having flexible build paths because there are so many more items available to them
Asayake 5150glow2 votesroa is not a good pickup on any mage, some mages like velkoz, syndra, xerath, etc, do not get any use out of this item. rylais is now only useful to the champions that it was absolutely core to as it is not just this huge ball of stats anymore. protobelt has terrible slot efficiency and falls off, and is only useful to champions like diana, kennen and situational pickups on champions like annie who need to get close to do anything. liandrys is a really good, well rounded item, but again mostly used by its core users, not simply a pickup on any mage as other items would help them more like zhonyas or abyssal.
other than for the core users, those items are situational as hell. but the ad health items do not have dedicated core users as the mage items do because the ad itemization is a lot more broad than the ap itemization. mages like zyra and brand are literally balanced around buying rylais liandries EVERY game, champions like vi and quinn are balanced around having flexible build paths because there are so many more items available to them
I don't think there's a mage in the game who can't use 100 AP, 500 health, and 300 mana.
I agree, AD health items don't have dedicated core users (besides Triforce). That's because no one, or very close to no one, ever uses Frozen Mallet or Steraks.
SH Azykan2 votes
and one of 
/ 
he really cannot afford the slot for the RoA
not gonna lie, velkoz was a bad example though as he actually does like having the item in a bad lane (w max + early catalyst is basically how you survive talon/katarina)
also
is basically the only FM core user P:
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=7th Syn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a0oRg90X,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-13T22:25:20.406+0000)
Well you could get Deathcap later, and put RoA in the Lichbane/Ludens/Zhonyas/Rylais/Liandry's/etc slot because it's also a defensive item. Also that's not fair, Viktor only has 4 slots and 3 are taken up by essentials (Morellos+Void Staff+Deathcap), although he honestly still has room for it.
NineTailedMystic5 votesDelaying Deathcap to last item is incredibly painful because of its combine cost.
dunder kill2 votesFrozen mallet sucks ass and Steraks was gutted ages ago
Guyy Fieri3 votesFrozen mallet sucks ass and Steraks was gutted ages ago
But you can't say that there is only one health/ad item...and Mallet really isn't that bad...
dunder kill3 votesand Mallet really isn't that bad
Yeah it is lol
Ionian Vulpix3 votesI was specifically talking about Early Game Burst, you know, when Zed hits 6. Those items are all completed items and cost around 2900 to 3300 if I'm not mistaken. Hexdrinker costs 1300 gold.
Asayake 5150glow5 votesI was specifically talking about Early Game Burst, you know, when Zed hits 6. Those items are all completed items and cost around 2900 to 3300 if I'm not mistaken. Hexdrinker costs 1300 gold.
A 
is pretty decent in my experience.
Big Lincoln8 votesyou have range and hard CC, excluding the cancers like Quinn and Graves most AD assassins have neither
you can't complain about unequal items when the champions are completely different
Starcraft243ver2 votesThey have mobility.
Sona Ping3 votesIf we want to be fair: mobility, invisibility/untargetablility, and sometimes hard CC (
)
Big Lincoln11 votesAll AP assassins are mobile, even a couple mages are
Mages have poke and range advantage
Starcraft243ver1 votesZed has poke and range as well. Coupled with mobility. And no mana. Leblanc is an ap assassin with range.
Big Lincoln12 votesZeds Q poke is mediocre behind minions and WQ requires a 20 second cooldown and blowing his only escape to poke you
energy is a pretty shit resource outside of lane
Penns1 votesrange
