Please get Brand out of the support role

Ionian Vulpix·Mar 29, 2018·166 votes·6,743 views

This cruel, sick joke has gone on long enough. Do whatever you did to Malzahar that got him out of support. I really couldn't care less if he's viable in other lanes, just get him out of bot somehow.

123 Comments

My Waifu VanillaMar 30, 201874 votes

My only problem with Brand is 9 times out of 10 when you catch brand out it doesn't matter since he turns into suicide bomber brand and hits REW before he dies and arguably STILL wins his team the fight even if he gets caught out first because he does so much damage from his passive+ult.

5000000000000000Mar 30, 201821 votes

Maybe make his R stop bouncing once he's dead? It would add more counterplay, but I think it might feel really bad to play as.

Also, I'm still fairly sure any of his issues come from the passive damage that's too high.

My Waifu VanillaMar 30, 201817 votes

It also doesn't help that his ult slows you making it much harder to not blow the rest of your team up with his passive.

Starcraft243verMar 30, 20182 votes

Well, splitting so the ult doesnt bounce ?

ElohavenMar 30, 20183 votes

It means you lose the fight botlane though.

Jinzo TorranceMar 30, 201866 votes

Yeah, get ADCs out of bot so Brand can take the carry spot

EeyoreMar 30, 20189 votes

Honestly, getting more mages into the carry position bot lane would probably be a better way of getting Brand out of the support spot.

DisembarkMar 30, 20184 votes

Tbh Brand doing more damage than the ADC anyways.

Tuition FeeMar 30, 201831 votes

Hello, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Yasuo support?

greekvandaLMar 30, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Hello, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Yasuo support?

Rengar*

k wìxMar 30, 201827 votes

Ayup, it's not just Brand. There are several good replacements. Annie Velkoz Xerath Zyra

And while I do think Brand could be toned down a notch in the early game, he's not that oppressive if you keep your distance.

Beyond that, he has a LOT of good counters to him:

1.) Outrange him. He's fragile and easy to poke out, he also has NO way to defend his partner short of CC.

2.) Outsustain him. He does have mana issues if you press him hard enough.

3.) Shields and Healing. Negate his damage!

ampheonMar 30, 201823 votes

4.) Ban him

Devilreaper XIIIMar 30, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0euXoERM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-30T00:29:54.526+0000)

Ayup, it's not just Brand. There are several good replacements.

And while I do think Brand could be toned down a notch in the early game, he's not that oppressive if you keep your distance.

Beyond that, he has a LOT of good counters to him:

1.) Outrange him. He's fragile and easy to poke out, he also has NO way to defend his partner short of CC.

2.) Outsustain him. He does have mana issues if you press him hard enough.

3.) Shields and Healing. Negate his damage!

brand is broken damage wise, he needs a nerf.....

2Charmnot2CharmMar 30, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0euXoERM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-30T00:29:54.526+0000)

Ayup, it's not just Brand. There are several good replacements.

Annie support died years ago when they nerfed her auto range. If you're losing to a annie support now then wow.

It Hertz When IPMar 30, 20182 votes

Think last I looked Annie Support has a winrate of ~43%.

ElohavenMar 30, 20182 votes

His distance means you easily lose out on CS. Not many ADCs can poke Brand in botlane and supports either since they same the same or lower range. Mana issues are negated after 1 item (Lost Chapter or Tear)

Unlike Xerath, Brand's poke is much stronger due to his passive.

He has counterplay but his oppressiveness due to his passive is close to Malzahar levels.

Nea104Mar 30, 201813 votes

This is part of the crazy damage issue Riot is not caring about.

Quiet DudeMar 30, 201812 votes

Ryze support is the hidden gem of supports

ZackTheWaffleManMar 30, 20183 votes

What trickery is this?

Quiet DudeMar 30, 20183 votes

Max r > w > e > q

Best support game of your life

HowAboutWeNautMar 30, 20181 votes

Nah fam it's all about that Syndra! She's essentially Janna, but with more damage. QE combo level 2 can stop the enemy ADC from farming half a lane if place correctly.

SciFi ScrivenerMar 30, 20182 votes

VelKoz is pretty crazy support. Do you think Ryze is better than that?

RainbowIceeMar 30, 20183 votes

call me crazy, but Braum is a pretty good support too.

Trias000Mar 30, 20188 votes

Why? There's many champions I don't like playing against. Should I make such a thread about every single one of them? Like "get Viegar out of mid lane"?

MagicFlyingLlamaMar 29, 20187 votes

Brand has been a support for years. Not any worse than Velkoz or Zyra in the grand scheme of support carry.

IainG10Mar 30, 20188 votes

I'd argue that Zyra is far better, just because her cc is not limited to one target, or by minion blocking

5000000000000000Mar 30, 20187 votes

Brand brings so much more damage than Zyra though

Sex Crazed EveMar 30, 20187 votes

All they'd have to do is make his Q stun scale with rank

[sg-lulu]

Radiant WukongMar 30, 20183 votes

Lux

It Hertz When IPMar 30, 20181 votes

Burns too much mana tossing E. You're better off taking Morgana.

Radiant WukongMar 30, 20183 votes

Mana flow band and ancient coin.

ThilmerMar 30, 20183 votes

Please, make Brand mid great again.

I have been playing Brand mid since season 3, and he has been receiving nerfs and strange changes for a while because he is too strong as a support... and that screws Brand mid as a side effect.

KissieMar 31, 20183 votes

I been perma banning blitz since I can remember Just switched to perma banning brand the other day

KrinuMar 31, 20183 votes

The problem is, at present, threefold:

Very high base damage values without any AP.
A passive that compounds the above problem, providing scaling damage without needing any offensive itemization.
An ultimate that overwhelmingly favors fighting multiple foes.

NorikatMar 30, 20182 votes

I literally ban Brand every single time I'm in bot lane unless a teammate already banned him.

YaseedaMar 30, 20182 votes

You can play lot of champs as support as long as they have sort of CC. And even without it. Example> I play FIddle and veigar as support quite often, depending on team setup, and in this season maining Maokai support. You cant expect Riot to "do something to stop people from playing non meta supports", because it will happen anyway. Welcome to high elo where quite a lot of picks are not meta.

DameshiMar 30, 20182 votes

I heavily dislike mage "support". Ever since they pumped a ton of gold into support to make people play the role it essentially just turned it into an extra carry. Only difference is that in mid you still need to worry about farming. As support you're free to focus on killing. I feel like that was not the appropriate way to make the role more appealing, but the damage is done and mage "support" is going to stick around.

xelakerMar 30, 20182 votes

Brand is fine, I've plenty of brand supp matches and people either fear the brand and die or play smart and do just fine or trounce me. as long as you dodge or keep a minion between you for his q you will be just fine.

DemainaNyxMar 30, 20182 votes

Exactly, treat him like a Blitzcrank. If there are minions in the way, he can't proc his passive burst pre-6. The most he can do is hit EW, which is a chunk of damage, but the W is dodgeable and E does pitiful damage.

SociopathFriendMar 30, 20182 votes

I really couldn't care less if he's viable in other lanes, just get him out of bot somehow.

The thing is... there really isn't a good reason kit-wise for Brand to not go bot-lane. His kit has three abilities that benefit from having more champions around to get off more damage- four if you count his innate damage. Guess where the most champions are on the map?

And thanks to the built-in sightstone on support items, Riot has opened up the support role even farther because you don't have to chunk in gold and slots for 2 items to be a support anymore. It's literally more viable than ever before I think to take a non-meta "Support" bot-lane.

Dancing FoxxMar 30, 20182 votes

Brand is a nightmare to deal with. I enjoy enchanters and you can't shield through the amount of damage he does, nor can you trade with him with our pitiful damage. Not sure how, but he seems to have mana longer than I can shield as well.

Last night I had a new ADC with me, and Brand double killed us by himself while his ADC was walking back to lane. There is nothing an enchanter could do to double kill anyone without an ADC early game as Lulu building support items. We all know what happens when Bot Lane falls behind these days...

I'm really not sure who to bring against him. I'm not good at Tank supports but I doubt they would fare much better in lane with no MR. I'd rather not play a mid-lane to counter this...

DemainaNyxMar 30, 20182 votes

All in's are good against him if you don't get poked too much. He dies very easily if he gets hooked or CC'd long enough. He's still an immobile mage, so anything that punishes that fact will do well against him.

Plus, he's the ranged support in the match, so if he doesn't push his advantage early, you kinda auto win as an engage tank, assuming your teammates don't just stand on top of each other when he ults. I've won countless times against Zyra's and Brand's as Naut, Thresh, or Blitz because I know he's easy to kill if I hit him.

wildfox99Mar 30, 20182 votes

nerf his base damage but give him better scalings and less mana cost

you did it

OleandervineMar 30, 20184 votes

Have you lost your mind? If you reduce his mana costs, it will make the problem worse, even if his scalings require more AP. People would be able to stack his passive faster with lower mana costs, and more consistently without going OOM.

Praetor NotoriasMar 30, 20182 votes

Wouldn't it be easier for you to learn not to stand so close together?

Pika FoxMar 30, 20182 votes

Just play leona into him and watch him be entirely useless all game.

But hes never going to be out of support. His E range is too small and waveclear cost too high for him to be viable mid. Only major reason lux is is because she has far more range.

rtbf55359909Mar 31, 20182 votes

[deleted]

BlueBilberryMar 31, 20183 votes

Yes. There are worse supports than Brand.

GulmaMar 31, 20182 votes

Damage creep just made him do more damage, enough to kill people as a support. I say that going 0/3 in lane and then ending up 8/3/x. Very high damage and hard to dodge long stun