Pretty much all mages feel like either burst mages or DPS mages

TeCoolMage··11 votes·2,101 views

note: this is not a buff mages thread, some need buffs and some need nerfs

Outside of competitive, a lot of (with a few outliers like maybe orianna) mages are played purely because of their damage in an all in, which is either DPS or burst

Xerath ? His poke is secondary, he's meta because he's the only poke AP with a EWQ burst combo comparable to Jayce or lethality Varus.

Anivia ? QE burst and R DPS. Her CC and wall is nice but not the main reason she's played. Just buy a ton of damage items and one-shot the ADC

Ziggs Okay he's partly played for his tower taking ability but not for his poke. He deals huge AOE DPS in an engage, and is a generally good teamfighter

Viktor is just a burst mage with no identity anymore, he should be played for his stun, ult zoning, and maybe his shield in tandem with his good damage but all he does these days is walk up to the carry and EWQR

Lux LuX SuppOrt iS pLAYEd fOR heR shIElD

Orianna Probably one of the only champions to be played because of her ult being game changing CC, and having a good shield

TwistedFate Actually surprisingly has avoided this as well because he's focused on early game roams rather than teamfights. Also is among the few to have point and click CC

And this would be Okay in a vacuum, but that leaves champions who have this stuff as their main shtick being relatively useless

AurelionSol Cassiopeia Ryze Karthus (Vladimir maybe) Why play these champions when you can play another champion that takes 1 second longer to shred a tank, but in exchange has better CC, (unless you need ryze point and click very badly) burst, utility, and more

Syndra Veigar Brand cool your bigger numbers overkilled the ADC by 1000 damage, but meanwhile the enemy mage overkilled the ADC by 100 and is continuing to contribute with good poke, lower ult reliance, CC, zoning, and utility

Sometimes a champion has such a good secondary niche that they're meta Azir Ahri are mainly damage oriented like above but they have stuff like mobility, CC for picks, play making ability, etc that lets them compete with other mages

Lissandra Taliyah pay for their utility with decreased damage more than the meta mages and in turn manage to stay out of meta

This is probably because of LoL slowly becoming a highly team fight and engage oriented game, with sustain and poke taking the back seat (rip poke>engage>sustain>poke triangle) to keep things exciting but I'd really prefer if playing less damage focused mage was an in between of a supportive role and carry role rather than just being second fiddle backup to the ADC when they can't go in safely compared to a longer range mage

Edit: someone can probably steal my content and repost this because I made the mistake of posting in a low-traffic hour (which means it has less upvotes per hour and won't make it to front page)

24 Comments

Lady Birdthulu9 votes

Karthus is an AOE champ- the whole point of him is like... anivia's ult... except you're the ult with his aura. You want them to stand in you.

With that being said I've always had issue with Karth because his ult is fairly weak- it's a clean up tool guys. His q is his damage. But his ult is one of the longest CD's in game. Considering ya'll gave lux a steriod with her ult [ for reals lvl 3 kill somebody with it and it's up in 10 seconds, else it's 27.5 seconds on 45% CDR NOT COUNTING THAT HAT RUNE]

like ok... so maybe it's high because it's a global. Again... Panth's semi global ult has a lower CDR. Soraka's global has a lower CDR. TF's is lower. Like even Zil's ult which used to have the same CD got reduced some time ago.

Like I get the fact the new runes aren't working for HALF OF THIS LIST. Ya'll keep buffing their damage output in these patches. We've noticed Rito...

Darkeus3 votes

Missing someone who has moved back to Mid.

Morgana

TeCoolMage1 votes

I kind of lump her in with Karma, Zilean and Lulu mid as enchanter mids, but her buffs gave her a lot of damage without destroying her CC or making her too OP so she's probably with Orianna in this case.

Good job riot, you managed to turn a mage that never made it mid into one of the currently best mid mages design wise.

Darkeus1 votes

Well she was a Mid Laner that kind of functioned better as a Support. With the mini-rework now she has good enough sustain to go back mid.

Ironically she is the first champ I started with after flailing around with other champs starting out.

But yeah, she is in a really good place right now I think.

You know who else is in a really good spot Mid but nobody plays her much (I do but I kind of suck with her)?

Kayle

Sister.... :-)

TeCoolMage1 votes

I think I've seen more Kayle supports and junglers than mid or ADC. Which is weird considering the fact she's a poster child Marksman mage next to Azir

Darkeus1 votes

That seems to be changing in Higher ELO.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Kayle/

The problem is the pick rates... She is really good, especially Mid or Top. But everyone forgets her for some reason. You get that E and attack speed going and you have this crazy angel with sustain, An Invulnerability Ult and REALLY FAST AP/AD damage coming at you.

But she has less than ideal Escape. The W is nice but it does not heal much. MS is always nice though combined with Hitting a Q to slow and break their armor first.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

I had something long typed out but I got like, halfway through it, and then realized it was pointless to be so redundant.

I disagree.

Xerath, Ziggs, Viktor, Orianna, Twisted Fate, Aurelion Sol, Cassiopeia, Vladimir, Brand, Ahri, and Taliyah are all fine. They have unique kits and playstyles, and they each bring something special to the game. I cannot agree with a thread complaining about these champions.

The rest of them I guess might be in need of some changes, but still... If you're going to complain about mages, don't just list nearly every mage. It makes your stance appear really biased and hard to relate to.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Mages and ADCs are Carries, meaning they focus on dealing dmg. What other dmg types are there besides DPS and Burst?

You're going to see the same type of diversity among mages as you see among ADCs

TeCoolMage1 votes

Carry simply means gold or EXP reliant. They don't need to deal damage. Here's some examples of non DPS/burst ways of contributing to a team, while still relying on gold or levels for bigger numbers:

Poke damage (which is different from DPS in that you don't kill them over 10 seconds in a teamfight but make them back over a minute before a teamfight)

Health advantage through healing/shielding (R.I.P Soraka mid maybe arcane comet or Aery will give her back the oomph she needs. Vladimir and to a lesser extent viktor can do this)

Damage to objectives (Ziggs, pretty much. Though a champion that deals extra damage to rift, Baron, dragon, inhibs and/or scuttle crab would be interesting)

Heavily level dependent CC, or CC that is only useful when an ally is nearby (Anivia)

There's an un filled niche for a carry mage who has a Nami E/Sona Q/Vladimir R/Zoe E and is focused heavily on enhancing ally damage with their own.

Even then there should be supportive mages who aren't outright enchanters, Zyra after all is classified as a 'catcher' instead of a battlemage.

Mig891 votes

Carry does not simply mean gold or exp reliant. A carry is someone who deals damage required to win the game whether it be to towers (ADCs primarily) or champs (ADCs or Mages) The rest of a team protects or targets carries because stopping their damage output even at the cost of dying will turn a teamfight.

TeCoolMage1 votes

There should be ways of being valuable to the team without being teamfight engage damage only. An all in should only compose a small part of the game, and carries should be able to win objectives through zoning, sieging, poking and splitpushing (okay maybe not splitpushing unless you have a global TP ADC TF/Shen-like Marksman), all of which can be done with the above methods.

Despite not sounding fun, attrition through poke and sustain should be a viable option to keep the game from being a one dimensional deathmatch.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Carry in this context is a role not a subjective definition for how much you carry a team ADC -> AD carry APC -> AP carry

THAT kind of carry

TeCoolMage1 votes

Oookay then mages shouldn't be only AP carries.

When I said carry, again I meant 'where you funnel resources such as gold into', a good Alistar or Braum can 'carry' in the sense you're talking about

Mig892 votes

I think the issue with the way you define it is its a flawed premise. You can funnel gold and exp into anyone you'd like to but they may not carry. Its true you can carry without doing the most damage in a game. Carries tend to poke and sustain until you can find a target to go all in on and that's where they attempt to land their combos. A good support can easily carry through locking down enemy carries and preventing them from doing damage. It doesnt matter how strong your carry is if the enemy carry doesn't get any damage off. In that sense mages are not only carrying through damage. A good example is an orianna ulti. If im playing Ori and im behind I know my ult can turn a teamfight if landed properly even if the damage is negligible. Its true damage wins games but enabling/preventing damage wins games by proxy and it can be just as obvious as that ADC unloading.

TeCoolMage1 votes

I agree with this though, what I'm saying is that non dedicated burst/DPS mages should be more about winning games by proxy but instead they're about one shotting the ADC and each other, with this being a secondary (but still very huge) advantage. Xerath can stop the enemy carry from going in by making them low with Q poke but in soloqueue he's picked pretty much because EWQ can outright kill them anyway from a range.

It's definitely a large amount because solo queue teams are disorganized compared to competitive (making the deathball 5v5 team too easy and good), but it's also partly because of numbers such as how squishy/tanky each champion is, where damage is distributed in kits, and because even in competitive teamfight comps are easier to pull off than other types.

Mig891 votes

This is pretty much up to the player one how they want to play. There are clear champs whose only usefulness is their damage output and then there are mages who CAN win by other means Amumu Anivia Gragas Kennen Morgana Orianna TwistedFate Taliyah Zyra Are all mages who can win a fight because of their CC. If you know your damage is not going to be the reason you will win a fight you can sacrifice some damage for the CC or penetration stat and still heavily contribute, if not be the reason your team won a fight. Mages output damage typically just like ADCs and there are also clear cases of ADCs being utilized for their effects and not just the damage. Goog examples of that would be Sivir, ashe, jhin, varus. I think it is all more defined in game based on what your team needs. Your Xerath example is alright because its true he can combo and kill almost any squishy but that Q threat is a strong zoning tool in a fight. He can ult at any time to poke whether its to initiate or to clean up or even just chunk during the fight when he cant get close enough to land his normal combo. I think they avoid going overboard on mage CC/utility because a competitive team would use it paired with AP damage/ratios to an extreme solo q would probably never see but straight up damage is not something mages are or should be soley focused on.

Votable Jester1 votes

Yeah, funnel your resources into Nunu, he's a carry [slayer-jinx-wink]

Troll for Trump1 votes

I don't think mages can be classified as anything else

Hovering Hentai1 votes

Why didn't you put Vel'Koz here?

TeCoolMage1 votes

God damnit I knew I was missing him, I literally though 'Oh yeah I gotta put in Vel' then 5 seconds later asked myself why I haven't clicked post yet

elo trash1 votes

forgot about Annie

TeCoolMage1 votes

Okay that's mostly because I'm unsure. On one hand she's like Orianna but not as good in terms of tibbers stun, but on the other she's point and click which makes her really good vs assassins.

Votable Jester1 votes

Almost every champion you're saying is unused was massively used in pro games for a long time.

PePsiLemoNN1 votes

Veigar Brand Syndra Will you risk overkilling the ADC with only 100 dmg?

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