I feel like eve stealth just has to go (or at least be heavily restricted), for her own sake

OJ191·11/25/2014, 1:02:10 PM·10 votes·3,579 views

Whenever her stats/damage/etc has been up to par, she's ALWAYS overbearing, because of the permastealth, especially with the current vision setup.

So she gets buffed/reworked up to par, and then nerfed, rinse and repeat foreeeeveer. And while losing or heavily restricting permastealth would suck for eve mains, at least they would get to play her in some form without feeling bad about it (whether because dragging their team down or playing OP fotm [which not everyone even cares about admittedly])

37 Comments

Learn 2 Swim11/25/2014, 1:12:21 PM11 votes

rename eve to lee sin and she will never get nerfed

fixed

Quepha11/25/2014, 4:52:12 PM7 votes

eve is a stealth champion, period. you can do whatever you want to any other part of her kit and she could still feel like eve, but if you remove stealth then it isn't her.

DJ Hatsune Miku11/25/2014, 1:59:57 PM7 votes

The real problem with stealth is that it's inherently strong for the person using it. Riot's idea of counterplay is "How can we make this easy for the opponent to deal with" rather than, "Do players have the tools to deal with this champion's playstyle." Assassins are generally hit or miss because if they can delete you they lack counterplay and if they're like Zed they can get their entire burst eaten by a flash or a zhonyas. Problem is Zed still has his stupid amounts of AD and sustained damage so he's his own level of stupid.

Stealth has the tools to be dealt with, however League is a game that isn't built to handle stealth as is. Look at Dota2. Not only do they have pink wards they also have an item that you can hold and it gives you a huge detection radius for stealth. Because of this stealth heroes are allowed to exist because countering them is as easy as buying that gem. The counter to that, however, is your team working to take them down as the gem drops on death. It's very engaging and really rewards both sides for outplaying the opponent. League doesn't have that and adding it would be silly because the game simply isn't made in that way. That's why they have to implement mechanics like the alert on Rengar's stealth. I still believe that is a really silly idea because what's the point of stealth if you still know they're there. I don't care if I can't see Rengar as he's running up to me, if I know he's there I can play as if he's visible which completely defeats the purpose of stealth.

As it stands, Eve is honestly just a fighter with a really awkward, thrown together kit that's immune to green wards. She's not really an assassin because she has no burst, she's more sustained dps and an initiate ult which leaves her more like a bruiser than anything. Eve is definitely a character that can exist, perma-stealth and all, but they need to make her with that stealth in mind. Her theme is that of a stalking hunter, a crafty assassin preying on the weak. She should be someone that focuses entirely on picks, lacking meaningful ways to wave clear or teamfight in exchange for assassination power and her stealth allowing her to position well. Sure the argument of "Oh she'll just walk over to the ADC and kill them for free then die and that'll be a 1 for 1 that always benefits her team." and that's certainly a valid argument. However I think if we forced her to be similar to Kat where she thrives on cleanup she'd be much better and healthier for the game. If Eve has to stalk and pick weak targets and lacks many real ways to straight up duel or 100-0 people unless she's really ahead I think she'd be totally fine.

Not everything needs to be fun to play against, fun is obviously subjective, so focusing heavily on counterplay is something that's strange. Play a game of MTG in legacy. You'll tear your hair out vs something like stacks or death and taxes but those decks have counters and while they're a bore to play vs and grindy as hell the satisfaction of out playing the opponent is what everyone cares about, not sitting there giggling as death mark ticks down while you sit in your Zhonyas. That's like constantly holding a counterspell plus mana to make sure your opponent never can get a dude out instead of forcing your opponent to make meaningful choices about when and how he has to approach each turn. As long as there is some way to make sure a champ can't freely do exactly what they want, they're fine in my book. Mages have magic resist, assassins have Zhonyas/GA, ADCs have armor, true damage has HP, and stealth has true sight. There's no reason stealth can't exist except by Riot's own dislike for the mechanic or inability to give up their obsession with stacking the odds in the opponent's favor to make sure bronzies can process the idea that "well if I do this I can be that! Yaaaay"

Tsukuy0m111/25/2014, 3:06:27 PM4 votes

Whenever her stats/damage/etc has been up to par, she's ALWAYS overbearing, because of the stealth, especially with the current vision setup.

So she gets buffed/reworked up to par, and then nerfed, rinse and repeat foreeeeveer. And while losing or heavily restricting stealth would suck for eve mains, at least they would get to play her in some form without feeling bad about it (whether because dragging their team down or playing OP fotm [which not everyone even cares about admittedly])

u want to remove evelynns only unique trade? its like u removing rengars bush jumps or lee sins q.

never gonna happen. she does need a buff. or change of ultimate. but no touching her passive

Sightless6611/25/2014, 3:45:26 PM3 votes

would suck for eve mains, at least they would get to play her in some form

Why would they play her then? Stealth is her one good thing. It's the most unique and defining mechanic in her kit Other than that, she's a pretty simple champion. What exactly is driving people to play her if not the stealth?

She'd need to be redesigned into an entirely different champion if this were to be done. It's hard to say if Eve mains would like this. Given responses to quite a few past redesigns, I'm going to guess they wouldn't exactly be pleased.

logique11/25/2014, 5:20:52 PM2 votes

I play eve and frankly, I can't think of anyone who seriously main's her that doesn't agree. I don't enjoy eve anymore - I'd trade her current stealth to enjoy the champ once more. The only time I do enjoy eve - I get lucky and get 3 kills in first 8 mins which lets me get dps and tank items early enough to survive the mid game and push to end the game before I become a lackluster ult bot in late game.

For me anything else doesn't make logical sense (in the sense that Riot seems unable to not push her into a bad corner).

Why keep the stealth and the moment I enter games, I already want to alt - f4 despite stealth being part of her identity? Its not worth it - not the way Riot has been nerfing her (mind boggling things like reducing the speed on spikes then blowing out the damage on the very same thing). An identity that makes you miserable? Fuck that.

Now understand that while this is a serious proposition it simply points out the glaring issue - Eve is in a terrible place. Of course we'd like to keep the invis but I'll trade a playable champ over invis.

8yVkmwxq0D11/25/2014, 3:14:24 PM2 votes

Eve used to be my favorite champ in her original form. While I agree that the stun out of stealth was maybe too powerful, I was fine with the slow out of stealth. She was powerful enough to destroy squishy champs. I stopped playing LoL for a while and when I came back, I found a totally different Eve. I can't believe that they made a stealth assassin into a bruiser fighter, it makes no sense to me. It's sad because she was my favorite for so long, now I can't even play her anymore, she's not as fun as she used to be.

Kharn Skyshatter11/25/2014, 4:13:26 PM2 votes

She already has almost no damage for an assassin and more of a bruiser, with your suggestion it'd ruin her just because you and others refuse to accept you can't always be 100% safe. She's almost a 95% chance you'll never see her in champ select anyways.

Colgate Minuette11/25/2014, 5:48:05 PM2 votes

I think you're just pissy because some Evelynn kicked the shit out of you in lane because you were not smart enough to back off and buy a pink ward. I play Eve alot, and typically my perma stealth doesn't even matter because of people being SMART and placing PINK WARDS.

BastionKross11/25/2014, 8:55:50 PM2 votes

I've said the exact same thing. As long as Eve keeps that permastealth, the rest of her kit is going to be garbage. It drains so much power. If the permastealth is removed, then you're free to add that power back to the rest of her kit. She can still be the creeping assassin/stalker and not have permastealth.

Eve mains really don't want to give that aspect up because of tradition or identity, but she also has a tradition/identity of being weak as hell (or if she's strong, getting nerfed down to weak as hell status). If permastealth is that important to them, then I don't mind if she keeps it; as long as they understand that as long as Eve has her permastealth, she will never be allowed to be strong for very long.

Ever.

Space Ghost Cat11/26/2014, 6:36:12 AM1 votes

You realize it uh... is heavily restricted? It used to be ungoverned except by stealth wards or oracles, now if she's within half of screen of you, you see her. If that is too much for you it's because you aren't using stealth wards to utterly mitigate her. She's pretty balanced right now and if anything a little underpowered.

Rebonack11/25/2014, 5:51:34 PM1 votes

How to fix Eve in five easy steps

  1. Bring back her OLD kit
  2. Her Innate now applies to Monster damage
  3. Her Q prioritizes the target of her auto-attack
  4. Her W no longer grants stealth. Instead it Charms a close-range foe for (short amount of time) and reduces the damage they deal to Eve for (longer amount of time).
  5. Her Ult active now grants her stealth for a few seconds in addition to the IAS and Movespeed buffs.

This is, frankly, what Riot should have done with her to begin with instead of giving her highish burst out of stealth. It would have maintained her identity as a deceptively tanky skirmisher who moves in and out of combat focusing weaker targets to get heals off her Ult passive. Without perma-stealth she wouldn't have as much early game pressure nor free scouting. Deep warding would be able to spot her on the way in for a gank.

Yeah, she would lose perma-stealth. But WAY too much of Eve's kit power is invested in her present Innate. So much so that the rest of her kit is watered down and awful.

Auz the Ripper11/25/2014, 8:11:50 PM1 votes

You're right It's not like pink wards are totally visible and can be easily removed!

Mirage Night11/30/2014, 5:06:56 AM1 votes

I would like to have her passive changed so the stealth would be combat oriented instead of global.

Gafugarion11/26/2014, 12:15:21 AM1 votes

Without stealth she's not Eve. If your jungle isn't an idiot they would deep ward her jungle and counter her when she's farming it, She's not perma invis, she has to go to camps to farm in between ganks, and any good team is gonna have pinks out after their first b anyway. If they don't that's more of an elo problem, not an eve problem.

If anything Eve needs a sustain buff for current jungle. I hate being stuck at 70% all the time as Eve in the preseason.

logique11/26/2014, 4:51:11 AM1 votes

Eh you know what I don't care. Enjoy the champ. I have over 200 games on her on one account, keep harping on the precious stealth and hang on to one of the lowest win rates in the game I'm moving on - if you haven't seen the writing on the wall check out the new champ that just got released. If I wanted to stalk someone and be relevant I'll play that or pick up rengar.

Colgate Minuette11/25/2014, 1:14:46 PM1 votes

Whenever her stats/damage/etc has been up to par, she's ALWAYS overbearing, because of the stealth, especially with the current vision setup.

So she gets buffed/reworked up to par, and then nerfed, rinse and repeat foreeeeveer. And while losing or heavily restricting stealth would suck for eve mains, at least they would get to play her in some form without feeling bad about it.

Both Shaco and Rengar can have pretty much the same level of stealth. You could position yourself the same way in lane as these champions and still not be seen. If anything Shaco is OP as hell cause you get no warning when he's near by. You get a warning with Rengar and Evelynn has a huge detection radius but not Shaco.

Her stealth is perfectly fine, it's easy to deal with just learn to buy pink wards. Upgrade that regular trinket into a pink and use that.

CoolKnightST11/25/2014, 1:13:24 PM1 votes

I'm actualy not sure. The jungle changes really buffed her passive by a hugh amount. While Evelynn simply can farm with item 3713 . She still gives pressure on all lanes.

However this is far the only option for evelyn right now. The other jungle direction a relative poor on her. item 3706 could make her more gank oriënted but it's not worth it while item 3713 is just the better option. I don't even talk about the counter jungle option. The item 3711 direction brings nothing to her lategame.

I think whe have to wait till all jungle items are ballanced before you start to discuss her.