@RiotRepertoir, Quinn Stuff! [long post]

Hello everyone, I'm FlashnFuse and I'm a self-proclaimed Quinn main. I play Quinn a lot, and I like to think that I'm pretty good with her. I typically play her as a bot lane ADC, but I take her top a lot, and I've jungled with her a few times as well.

Over time I've had a lot of ideas for buffing her, but overall I think she is in a decent (slightly weaker than competitive) spot right now. She can hard carry a game if she gets very far ahead, but can easily fall off in the late game.

In the interest of full disclosure: I haven't had any of my mains significantly changed or worked on in the time that I've played league, so I'm really worried that they'll change Quinn into a champion that I do not like. Rather than complaining about the changes or crying, I would like to make a comprehensive list of ideas so that RiotRepertoir and his team have some discussion to work off of

Please note that it would be absolutely insane to make all the changes I'm suggesting, this is just a list of ideas that I have in a notepad file that I want to share with the boards. If they went through with every silly buff idea I had, Quinn would be more ridiculous than Warwick with release skirmishers/devourer. Some ideas are better than others, most are buffs, some are changes i've seen other people suggest that I liked, some are changes I've seen other people suggest that I disliked, and some things are a desperate attempt at comedy. This is just a giant blob of everything I feel I can contribute to my favorite champion and should be taken with a grain of salt due to my confessed bias.

Let's start out with the simple things! What is fundamental to Quinn's identity? Though it may vary from person to person, I think that Quinn mains can agree on three things:

1. Valor tells the best knock knock jokes
2. The harrier proc mini-game is fun and occasionally maddening, but it makes Quinn who she is
3. Correct use of Vault can make you great, poor use of Vault is the easiest way to get yourself killed

Let's address each skill in no particular order:

(E) Vault: Dash to targeted enemy and bounce away from them, dealing a small amount of damage while knocking them up and slowing them for a short duration. Applies a mark of harrier to the effected target

This skill is perfect as it is, it doesn't need to get changed. I've seen a few different discussion for changing this skill and the most common one I see is "change it to be a dash like Graves' quick draw or Vayne's tumble". I would be incredibly disappointed to see that change. Vault's greatest strength comes from being a targeted skill, even changing it to something more along the line of Vi's vault breaker would be a bad change because of enemy champions/minions accidentally bodyblocking your single gapcloser/disengage skill. Did you know that Vault follows someone exactly the same way that Lee Sin's resonating strike does? I've gotten killed a few times because of that, but I've caught and killed far more enemies with that then I've lost. On top of that, this skill is great for a disengaging as well. It interrupts channels (fiddle drain, katarina ult, etc) and is a nicely rounded off skill.

TL;DR people that main Quinn don't want vault to be changed

(Passive) Harrier: Valor periodically marks a visible target as vulnerable, granting sight of the affected target. Quinn does a moderate amount of damage when attacking a vulnerable target. Passive disappears when Quin is replaced by Valor

The "shoot the harrier procced targets" is a fun minigame. Valor can be a bit of a troll at times and mark someone you don't want marked. That's okay though, he's not malicious; he's just a bird and birds are dumb. What I love about this skill is it does a great job of translating the thematic elements of a person and a bird working together to hunt down targets. There are a few small buffs you can throw at the skill, but really this one is in a good spot right now

1. Harrier does bonus damage to minions (similar to caitlynn's headshot). It would make the early laning phase a bit better and is just a "feel-good" buff to the skill.
2. Harrier passive and Vault mark use separate cooldowns. Vault applies a mark of your passive (which is great!) but it also resets your passive timer (which is not so great). This means that if your harrier has 2 seconds until it marks someone and you use vault, you will apply harrier to a target and reset the passive cooldown (~8ish seconds). This is kind of annoying, but a very reasonable limitation of the skill. This would be a big buff to Quinn's damage and make a lower skill floor for vault/harrier resets.
3. Have auto attacks consume the harrier mark similar to a Katarina Q. I've seen this suggestion before, but I think that this would be a very bad change. As the skill is now, you have to start an auto attack after the mark is applied to get the harrier damage. Clarity wise, it's great to know that you need to run away from the crazy bird lady when you have a target on your back. If they changed it so that it got consumed when an auto attack hits, regardless of when the mark was applied(so lets say .1 second before the auto attack hit), it would lose clarity and be an insanely unfair damage boost that your opponent couldn't see coming.
4. Ignore bonus armor (similar to caitlynn headshot). Strictly a dirty buff that would help her out at all stages of the game, particularly late game when she struggles.
5. Make critical strike chance lower harrier's cooldown. This would be a similar change to Ashe in how this champion uses critical strike chance differently, but this would also force Quinn into a standard adc build. I think there are some good trade offs that can be made here though, so I would be curious how riot would implement this system.
6. Movement speed boost (equal to W's passive speed boost) when moving towards a Harrier-marked target. Being a very short ranged attacker, Quinn can get in a lot of trouble trying to hit a harrier marked target. This would be a gigantic fat buff
7. Auto attacks reduce harrier cooldown. This is a change I would love to see, especially if they went for the "remove critical hits" route on Quinn. Quinn doesn't scale incredibly well with raw attack speed (since all her damage is in harrier's semi-static cooldown or her ultimate's execute) but this would complement that botrk and youmuu's that people like to build on her. I think could be over bearing though, allowing Quinn to have too much burst and sustained damage.
8. Harrier gives true sight on the target. It's kind of annoying when Valor marks someone and they go invisible, or when you vault off someone and they go invisible. With this change you can mark someone with true sight and then choose to not attack them (to give your team the vision on them) or you can attack them, consume the mark, and lose vision on them. This could be an interesting change but I'm worried about how hard this would hit stealth-based champions.
9. Harrier procs reduce vault's cooldown by 1 second. Could be a sweet buff for when you're dueling someone for an extended period of time. Not to overbearing.
10. BUG FIX When you auto attack someone marked by harrier but behind a windwall or Braum's shield, the harrier mark remains on the target but you can no longer consume the mark. Reaaaaaallllly annoying bug that needs to be looked at and fixed.

TL;DR this skill is in an okay place right now, but I have a few small tweaks it could take along with a significant bug fix

(W)Heightened Senses: Active: Reveal an area around Quinn. Passive: Gives a small movement and attack speed boost when you proc harrier. Gives a large amount of attack speed as Valor.

This is a nice scouting skill with a long cooldown. Straight out of the gate I would like to suggest a buff that would give it parity with other scouting tools:

1. Two charges . Similar to Ashe's scouting tool and Kalista's scouting tool. This would give Quinn's scouting tool parity with other markswomen. I can see no good counter argument for Quinn not getting 2 charges on this skill when other adcs have 2 charges on their longer range scouting skills. Really feels like a no-brainer to me.
2. More attack speed. If you go down the path of making harrier "scale" off attack speed, i think it would be cool to bump up the attack speed passive from this skill. I think could be over bearing though, allowing Quinn to have too much burst and sustained damage.
3. More movement speed. Could be a neat numbers buff, but we shouldn't make our adcs too mobile.
4. Passive as Valor attack speed moved to ultimate. As it is right now, this skill gives a massive boost to attack speed as valor (40% + 10% per rank in W). I'm not a fan of the attack speed on Valor being gated behind a skill that is a 1 point wonder at best (there is no realistic reason to max this skill over Q or E in any game I've ever played). I think moving the attack speed boost as Valor to ranks in the ultimate would be a nice significant buff. But I have a lot of different changes under the ultimate section.
5. Proccing Harrier removes slows. Makes sense that a movement speed boost can break a slow. Could be op.
6. Ranks in W increase your attack range against harrier marked targets . This could give this skill the meaningful choices when it comes to "which skill should i max first?". This will still probably be the last skill you mark up, but it would be a very uniquely new mechanic for the game and reinforce the thematic ranger and bird hunting down targets and attacking "from above".

TL;DR two charges is mandatory for scouting skills, move attack speed from this skill to ultimate, this skill gives attack range on marked targets

(Q) Blinding Assault: Throws valor in a line in front of you, damaging enemies he hits for a decent amount of damage. Also blinds enemies he hits by gouging out their eyes, which is fucking savage

The blind is what makes Quinn able to fight marksmen with better kits/more damage than herself. A good hit of blind can make or break a fight for you, and is great against anyone heavily auto attack reliant (Vayne, Jinx, Master Yi/any devourer user). While being not so great against ADCs that rely on spells for damage (Ezreal, Graves, Varus,etc ). I love the thematic of a blind, since it works great with the whole bird thing but visually there is little difference between throwing valor in a straight line and throwing a knife (or something) in a straight line. My following changes are mostly just thematic/visual changes to the skill, but functionally i believe Q should always remain a blind for Quinn's enemies.

1. As Quinn, Q becomes a point click single target blind. I'm not a fan of this change, but it would cement Quinn into a single target duelist while Valor has a lot of AOE. It would make Quinn's waveclear weaker but her harass stronger.
2. Q grants vision. There are a lot of skills that you can throw out somewhere and grant vision, I believe that Valor should grant vision in a similar fashion while he's flying to a spot.
3. Have blind scale with rank, again for the meaningful choice: "Do i want to max Q for a longer blind, Vault for faster cooldowns/more mobility, or W for range?"
4. Valor lands in a spot in a fashion similar to Elise's volatile spiderling and Soraka's starcall. Anyone in the area that Valor lands gets hit with a longer blind, the damage and is marked by harrier. If there is nobody at the landing spot, Valor chases a nearby target and hits them for less damage and less blind time with no harrier mark . This skill would just be amazing fun to get a clump of enemies (minions mostly) marked with harrier and could be interesting way of showing the Demacian Duo working as a team to kill things. This could be seen as a net nerf if Valor's acquisition range is too low, or if the "starcall" style landing is too long, but it could be a far trade off for the longer blind and harrier marks on the center of mass. Valor should probably prioritize whoever Quinn is auto attacking for the "chase" target.

TL;DR Blind works well thematically for Quinn. Option 4 is the coolest functional change

(R) Tag Team/Skystrike: Valor replaces Quinn on the battlefield as a melee attacker and gains attack speed from w. Valor moves through units and gains movement speed while out of combat. Reactivating the ultimate casts skystrike dealing a damage that increases based on opponents' missing health

I love and hate this skill. If you see one person outside of the pack, you can catch and kill them pretty easily (which is where Quinn gets her assassin title from). That being said, It's absolutely useless in an organized team fight against competent opponents. Becoming melee ranged isn't fun when you're a squishy ad carry, and the execute damage isn't even that great compared to other executes. The AOE on it is also very small, unless you're sitting in the middle of their team (don't do that). If you don't completely change this skill (which you should, and I have a suggestion below) I have some changes you could make to it.

1. The cooldown is way too long. (140 / 110 / 80) is its base cooldown. Compare that to Jinx's (90 / 75 / 60) execute that does more damage from a safer distance or Riven's (110 / 80 / 50) cooldown which does SIGNIFICANTLY more damage and puts Riven right where she wants to be. It's just not fair compared to these two other AOE executes and should be lowered either by a fixed amount or by 1 second per harrier mark.
2. Valor gets damage resistance or armor/MR. Strictly to what a melee champ of that level would have. Could be OP or worthless depending on how much resistance valor gets. This is a very poor path to go down, don't do this.
3. Valor can still mark enemy targets as vulnerable for harrier's damage. Quinn's primary damage source comes from harrier, and it hurts a lot when harrier is gone.
4. Skystrike marks everyone it hits with a harrier mark. Again, the AOE isn't great enough that you could do this in a teamfight and hit too many enemy champions, but it would add more kill power to the execute.
5. R breaks CC when Quinn switches to Valor OR makes Quinn untargettable as they swap. Could be an interesting change, I think of it as Valor swooping in to save Quinn when she gets rooted by morgana or something to that effect. Would add a new interesting choice in using the ult, still I'm not in love with the ult.
6. R resets cooldowns when Quinn and Valor swap. This is straight up OP. The combo of resetting cooldowns would leave you eternally blinded while letting Quinn and Valor murder you. H-AA means a harrier procced auto attack in this combo (Q -> AA -> H-AA -> E -> H-AA -> R -> E -> AA -> Q -> AA -> AA -> R -> Q -> AA -> H-AA -> E -> H-AA). If that combo doesn't kill you, it means you're either truly immortal and/or nasus.
7. The more time you spend as Valor, the more damage skystrike does. Generally when you ult as Quinn you do a quick burst combo to kill someone, so this change (and the compensatory nerf to the upfront damage) would be horrible.
8. Skystrikes casts if you die. Could be nice, and definitely reinforces the suicide bomber mentality that Quinn has. This easily tips the line into overpowered territory though.
9. A complete overhaul to the skill. R is now a point and click spell that summons Valor near you and has him race over to attack a targetted enemy. He has the same stats as Quinn (or a bit lower because balance), more attack speed, more movement speed and can move through units. He can no longer use vault, your Q changes so that he does it in an area near him (exactly as it works now, just with a pet) and W's vision gives vision around him instead of Quinn. Every time Valor auto attacks a target, he marks them with Harrier, which works great with Quinn's longer range attack if you use the W change proposed above. This is a huge change to the ult, one in that it makes Valor a pet, and two in that it changes to more closely mirror the thematic of Quinn and Valor on the battlefield together. You wouldn't even have to change the quotes! Naturally this means the execute would be gone, unless you people were insane.

TL;DR Have the current ultimate replaced with summoning Valor as a pet, Valor auto attacks enemies and marks them with Harrier while the player (as Quinn) attacks in tandem with her bird. No more execute

Wow that was long! (MS word clocks this in at just over 3,000 words....) Thanks for reading and I hope that I've contributed to the Quinn discussion positively. If anyone has anything to add, I'd love to hear it!