A non-numbers nerf to Illaoi

FlashnFuse·Dec 15, 2015·100 votes·4,887 views

Add a leash range for Illaoi's E - Test of Spirit that Illaoi can't leave. If Illaoi leaves that leash range from the spirit, the spirit should simply vanish harmlessly. This would introduce a new dynamic into the ability where Illaoi is pushed into staying as a front lane tank/juggernaut and more solidly adds a way to play around the ability (hit her with a giant knockback).

Thoughts?

EDIT: It would also get rid of those pesky situations where Illaoi E's somebody and then runs away from them and they become a vessel as they're trying to chase after her. That feels like an unfair way for that to resolve mechanically (as well as lore-wise).

78 Comments

DeathBurstDec 15, 201510 votes

Why not, but I predict it will have very little impact. If you are able to force her away from the Spirit, you won't become a Vessel, even in the current live version.

NidkenDec 15, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Why not, but I predict it will have very little impact. If you are able to force her away from the Spirit, you won't become a Vessel, even in the current live version.

You will because your spirit is still there for that illaoi's team to kill. I like the idea.

DeathBurstDec 15, 20151 votes

You won't be able to force her away except with Trista/Lee Sin ult if her team is here. She's supposed to be the frontline of her team. If the rest of her team is here, she'll stay here too.

RikoZerameDec 15, 20151 votes

It would make for some funny Blitz hooks.

DeathBurstDec 15, 20152 votes

Heh, I'm actually wondering... What happens if you land a hook on a spirit? Can you insta-make a Vessel by being in the backline and grabbing the Spirit just after Illaoi grabbed the Champion?

It's probably not optimal if you can just destroy the Spirit with some damage reflected to the body, but it sure is a fun interaction, if it is actually possible.

RIP Tahm KenchDec 15, 20151 votes

It's possible, but I don't really see the point to it, because just how you explained I'd rather get the free damage in.

DeathBurstDec 15, 20154 votes

The style points, mate, don't forget the style points :p

Ever tried the fire aura that freezes you to death? Try Mundo with Rylai ;)

Disclaimer: I'll take no responsibility if you do this in ranked.

ObericDec 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The style points, mate, don't forget the style points :p

Ever tried the fire aura that freezes you to death? Try Mundo with Rylai ;)

Disclaimer: I'll take no responsibility if you do this in ranked.

I don't play Mundo often, but when I do, it's Rylai+Liandry every time.

DeathBurstDec 16, 20151 votes

It's not optimal unless you are very far ahead already. Then you can kill all their team just by yourself.

ShatoSummonerDec 15, 20151 votes

Poppy says hi.

ahferroin7Dec 16, 20151 votes

Poppy Azir Gragas Janna Skarner Urgot Blitzcrank and Alistar say hi...

MLDzXnRRRDec 15, 20156 votes

That E minigame is very stupid, people don't wanna play vs her because of it.

High5Dec 15, 20152 votes

Yeah, e is the problem. It's hard to understand what's happening as an opponent. It needs to be simplified somehow.

League of PotatoDec 15, 20153 votes

maybe not make the debuff last for a whole minute? Id rather not have to run all the way back to the fountain from their inhib because I can't back because of a debuff that will kill me if i try standing there recalling

SzunrayDec 15, 20154 votes

Well that's something wrong with your playstyle specifically, cause not only can you just kill 3 tentacles to remove it, if you just dodged the first tentacle that you spawn, you can stand in place and recall.

If you're honestly running from your outer turret to base every time she lands an E, then you're just doing it wrong.

Not KatarinaDec 15, 20151 votes

I agree, but sometimes it's really hard since you have to get the last hits on the tentacles to remove the debuff, and uncoordinated teams would rather have 15g(?) than your life simply because they don't understand how being a vessel works.

You're right about the dodging 1 to recall though.

SteelflameDec 16, 20151 votes

Except it isn't just 15 gold if your team is killing it and not you. If you dodge them all, your team will get upwards of 30-50 gold from a single vessel. Sure, it isn't much, but compared to the 25 gold Illaoi's team gets from a spirit kill (And that requires one of them to last hit it), it overall snowballs it in your favor. And Nasus/Sion both get stacks from them.

Not KatarinaDec 16, 20151 votes

I don't have the happy feet to constantly dance around Illaoi's tentacles because my team wants extra gold, but I see your point.

SteelflameDec 15, 20155 votes

As an Illaoi main, this would probably not affect me at all, because you are never shoving me away from that spirit unless I am just flat out chasing you because YOU are running away. This only really helps against bad Illaoi's, and good ones will be unaffected. And bad Illaoi's are already doing VERY bad, and you are just making the barrier of entry on the champion higher.

Remlap1223Dec 15, 201557 votes

As an Illaoi main

Stopped reading right after that.

MooShooTheDragonDec 15, 20154 votes

Same

Pierce The VealDec 15, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Stopped reading right after that.

I did too but I just had to comment the way I did :P

Señor KarthusDec 15, 20155 votes

{quoted}

As an Illaoi main

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA/36118758?champion=420

http://i.imgur.com/t9m2NJj.png

Ashe JungleDec 15, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aThklztA,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2015-12-15T15:46:25.459+0000)

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA/36118758?champion=420

http://i.imgur.com/t9m2NJj.png

He's got exclusively Illaoi ranked games, and does well enough that I'd guess he's played his fair share of normals on her as well. Checks out.

VagaboundDec 15, 20152 votes

The KDR and builds check out. It only shows ranked matches so you're assuming they only play ranked.

Rock RockburghDec 15, 20151 votes

Can we all just appreciate that Illaoi's internal ID is apparently 420? Like, Kindred is 203. Ekko is 245. How did they manage to jump to 420?

TonyTonyMordecaiDec 15, 20151 votes

Thats pretty dank if you ask me

For CarthageDec 16, 20151 votes

I'm going to take a guess and say that it's to explain why her eyes are like that.

SteelflameDec 16, 20151 votes

You are basing that on only ranked games (Guess what, I play 90% of my games as normals), and even if you check now, you will see two more games. Of which, I went against plat/diamond top laners.

Pierce The VealDec 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As an Illaoi main, this would probably not affect me at all, because you are never shoving me away from that spirit unless I am just flat out chasing you because YOU are running away. This only really helps against bad Illaoi's, and good ones will be unaffected. And bad Illaoi's are already doing VERY bad, and you are just making the barrier of entry on the champion higher.

I am Renekton and I am going to enter dat ass. Without lube. Do you still dare not move?

SteelflameDec 16, 20151 votes

You try it, and you'll find that while you are going at me, my tentacles are coming from behind. And they have a bit more girth...

Pierce The VealDec 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You try it, and you'll find that while you are going at me, my tentacles are coming from behind. And they have a bit more girth...

I'm a fricking lizard, my anus seals shut and isn't perpetually open like a human being's. And I can just make my girth wider by pressing R.

ThatHaleStateDec 15, 20155 votes

Why is everyone so hell bent on nerfing this champion? She is in no way shape or form in need of nerfs. She is better against the people she is supposed to be and terrible against the ppl she is supposed to be. IMO she is perfect how she is, people are just still learning how to play her and against her. Instead of calling for nerfs so you dont have to adapt, just adapt to her as a viability to be against. If your having that hard a time, pick range, extreme all in potential, or sustain. I have not lost one time to this champion, especially in top lane. Pick Olaf and she couldnt be more freelo. Vayne, Quinn, hell even taric. She isnt that scary people. She isnt scary as a support either. Treat her like blitz and youll be fine. ie stay behind minions and she can never "pull you" or test your spirit, taking away her entire "viability" as a supp.

Ariel the CruelDec 15, 20153 votes

Vayne, Quinn, hell even taric.

TO be fair, Quinn near auto-wins a lot of match-ups right now thanks to Q (if played well).

High5Dec 15, 20153 votes

E is a frustrating and hard ability for opponents to understand. The rest of the kit is fine.

Critmaster GarenDec 15, 20154 votes

i dont see the point. if youre pushing her away from the spirit you already prevent her from dealing damage to it. its just gonna vanish and the ability ends.

plus her winrate seems to warrant buffs actually at this moment, not nerfs. so while shes generally perceived as strong in bronze and silver, her overall power level is quite low.

funny that its the same thing with darius.

Ariel the CruelDec 15, 20151 votes

if youre pushing her away from the spirit you already prevent her from dealing damage to it.

But you don't prevent her team from doing damage to it. I think that's the point OP is trying to make. She can still grab a soul then retreat to the mid/back line while her team pops the spirit - leaving the victim no way of buying it back. It's rare to see her played this way, but it happens occasionally with siege comps.

Critmaster GarenDec 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aThklztA,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-12-15T17:48:47.414+0000)

But you don't prevent her team from doing damage to it. I think that's the point OP is trying to make. She can still grab a soul then retreat to the mid/back line while her team pops the spirit - leaving the victim no way of buying it back. It's rare to see her played this way, but it happens occasionally with siege comps.

well, you did get hit by a mediocre ranged skillshot thats blocked by minions. and it now gives you a second chance by dealing damage to her to make it vanish, or get hit by an anoying debuff thats easy to cleanse.

i dont think test of spirit really needs toning down in any shape.

Ariel the CruelDec 15, 20151 votes

or get hit by an anoying debuff thats easy to cleanse.

The debuff is only an issue when allies won't let you last hit, or Illaoi ults. Since her ult apparently makes all tentacles untargetable.

The Voids CallDec 15, 20153 votes

I'd prefer for them to move the vessel mechanic part of her passive. "Hitting a champion or their soul with Harsh Lesson applies a stack of vessel stacking up to 5 times, each stack of vessel lasts 60 seconds. Killing a tentacle removes a stack of vessel. When the target is at or above 3 stacks of vessel, they will spawn a tentacle every 10 seconds, until they drop below 3 stacks of vessel." Note: her W has a CD of ( 6 / 5.5 / 5 / 4.5 / 4 ) seconds.

The idea is simple, the longer you fight her, the longer the minigame will last for you if you run away. This also means a good illaoi would have to understand when she can bully and apply stacks, while also making protecting her tentacles important if you want to apply vessel when making simple exchanges during farming, in order to bully them back.

Remlap1223Dec 15, 20152 votes

That, and give an actual timeout for being a vessel.

In before "It goes away after a minute." Yeah, and Kalista technically can't put more than 254 spears into a target, but that doesn't make her rend any less cancerous or having any sort of realistic cap to it.

DarkvaineDec 15, 20153 votes

if you kill 3 tentacles, you become free also, if you are really having problem with her, you can in game me and i can tell you all the details in how to crush her, i main her so im fully aware of my weakness and when to what match ups play her.

hope this helps

Remlap1223Dec 15, 20152 votes

i main her

Hang on, lemme quote myself.

{quoted}

Stopped reading right after that.

Also, I know that killing three tentacles breaks you being a vessel. What I"m saying is you shouldn't be bitch slapped across the map for successfully escaping her. Getting hit with a tentacle while running with homeguard's, having it chunk your health after you heal, disrupt the movement speed boost, and have to run back to base is just so goddamn cheesy. I should not have to live in fear of getting chunked before running back to lane. There's only four champions that should be allowed to do that: Ashe Ezreal Gangplank and Jinx . You should not have a global attack on a basic ability. That's so unbelievably stupid.

DarkvaineDec 15, 20152 votes

well the conversation here is not if you like it or not, i was just telling you how to counter play. now if you want to talk about if its fair or not then that's different, that conversation will never get any where. good luck in your journey

Remlap1223Dec 15, 20151 votes

Sure thing "Illoai main." I await drinking your salty tears when Riot "ruins your champ" by actually making her not bullshit to play against.

ModCaptainMårvelousDec 15, 20152 votes

How about instead, vessel status leaves whenever tentacles die near you.

Needing to personally kill tentacles is arbitrary for how slow they spawn.

MasterVidallisDec 15, 20152 votes

Nerfs to Illaoi? Lol, she is on the weak side right now for top lane. The only reason some people struggle is because they fail to read ability descriptions for new champions and so don't know how she works. While too early for changes to her if anything with some data she'll need a buff.

Also, she is VERY easy to gank, which is a major weakness for top regardless of her 1v1, and why you won't be seeing her in pro play anytime soon.

OmniMotoDec 15, 20152 votes

Personally I think I just think the E should have a meaningful difference between leaving the area or killing the spirit

Owatatsumi KamiDec 16, 20152 votes

I don't think Illaoi needs a nerf at this time. People still aren't used to her yet and aren't aware of her counterplay and walk into her strong points. She isn't considered strong at higher brackets of play and only on lower ones where people don't think things out as much. Personally I don't feel she's OP. She can be strong in some situations match ups but isn't over bearing especially if you dodge her skill shots and play around her other abilities. For the love of god stop walking into her ult/closed corridors in jungle!

Note: Not an Illaoi main. Haven't even played her yet. :P

Vincent LuciusDec 16, 20151 votes

I think she's fine at the moment but this does seem interesting. It would fit her theme of this tough woman that follows the law of a god that pretty much says to do as you please as long as you never stop moving. If you're going to take someone's soul out you've got the relish the fight that they'll put up and all that.