As a Darius main

5StackUltOneShot··13 votes·7,477 views

I am becoming confused. VERY CONFUSED. Playing my champion I know my strengths and weaknesses.

I have built in mobility which means once I engage (If I manage to) I have to keep fighting because put it simply, I cannot run or dash away or out manoeuvre my opponents, also I have my inner Q that denies me lots of damage and a huge amount of healing. However, this is traded off for extreme damage and an innate ability to counter tanks. I have small side weaknesses like my long E cd and poor ability to counter ranged as well as being prone to be kited but in the end it balanced off. I counter one champion and lose to another.

So, please, explain to me, what the fuck is the counterplay to this bullshit Riven Vayne ?????

Like, Riven has triple my mobility, double my damage, an AOE execute, more range, wall jumps, FUCKING no cooldowns (which apparently used to be her weakness), two forms of CC, a 100% AD scaling shield on, what? a 4 second cooldown?, oh and (wait let me contain my laughter) 'animation cancels', an intended feature btw which allows her to use all her abilities in the span of my E pull lmao. So, what is the trade off here? Where is her 'inner q' that i can dodge? Or her extreme mobility trade off for less damage than other champions. WHAT IS SHE LOSING? Give Darius a fucking dash, see what happens.

IT DOES NOT WORK GIVING A CHAMPION BOTH SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM. IT. DOES. NOT.

Oh and everyone else complains about ranged Darius (Vayne) so Im not going to, im trying to forget about her. Thinking about taking 1k true damage in four hits gives me fucking PTSD.

Edit: This isnt a thread about how I cant beat them in lane, I can very well hold my ground against some Riven players (Mainly because all her players are just jumping onto the 'high % wr champ' train). Its about the fact that I fucking engage, look behind me only to see both my botlaners wiped out by a Riven that clicked final Q W R only for her to then trash on the rest of my team. Vayne is similar in that she can go 0/10, buy rageblade and still 6 shot anything.

24 Comments

Poop Johnson8 votes

Can people stop saying mobile=less damage? Mobility has not and will never mean less damage, it means less tankiness which Riven has. Sure she has her E but her HP per secound is abysmal as well as her armor and actual health.. It also doesn't help that Darius is meant to counter tanks, not squishy hit and run champions and are meant to get in your face and then out.

Is Riven too good? Yeah but Darius shouldn't be good vs Riven to begin with.

Vayne is countered by Frozen Heart/Thornmail because they slow down her AS plus she's a duelist so fighting her 1v1 has never been the best idea. Is it perfect? Not by a longshot but the counters do exist they're just horrible.

5StackUltOneShot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Poop Johnson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZrGLKnPU,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-03-29T03:10:59.088+0000)

Can people stop saying mobile=less damage? Mobility has not and will never mean less damage, it means less tankiness which Riven has. Sure she has her E but her HP per secound is abysmal as well as her armor and actual health.. It also doesn't help that Darius is meant to counter tanks, not squishy hit and run champions and are meant to get in your face and then out.

Is Riven too good? Yeah but Darius shouldn't be good vs Riven to begin with.

Vayne is countered by Frozen Heart/Thornmail because they slow down her AS plus she's a duelist so fighting her 1v1 has never been the best idea. Is it perfect? Not by a longshot but the counters do exist they're just horrible.

??????

Darius is supposed to be good against melee period. He EXCELS against tanks.

Given these two statements his weakness is ranged, mobile heavy champions

Corvin07165 votes

When a Darius main complains about other champions.... for everything else there's mastercard.

No, but seriously what is your point? You are just listing an other champion's abilities. Where is the argument? What is the argument? Riven has abilities? Every champion has abilities. Let's list Darius abilities now.

His passive gives him bonus damage which scales with AD and stacks up 5 times into more bonus damage which gives him an even higher amount of bonus damage and the ability to apply all bonus damages on every new target as well. In any way soever it is a way stronger version of Riven's passive. His Q is aoe damage which also heals him. His W has bonus range, 90% slow effect on the enemy and an inbuilt "animation cancel" that you hate so much. His E is inbuilt armor penetration. You know that one which costs 2800 gold and an item slot for Riven. Darius gets it for free. Also it can be used as an aoe pull which also slows the enemies. His ult is a leap which is unstoppable, deals true damage and can be recasted multiple times. Also "At rank 3, if Noxian Guillotine kills its target, its cooldown reduction resets completely." (Give Riven a multi-recastable, unstoppable ult which deals true damage and see what happens. LOL)

Sum it up:

Riven: bonus damage (far less than Darius has), mobility, stun, shield, bonus range, knock up, wind slash, no resources Darius: bonus damage (far more than Riven has, it allows him to build tank and still deal insane damage), healing, bonus range, 2 slow effects, armor penetration, true damage, unstoppable ultimate, multi-recastable ultimate, 0 cooldown ultimate, better base stats

I fail to see how Riven's kit is more overloaded than Darius'.

"So, please, explain to me, what the fuck is the counterplay to this bullshit Riven?????"

Kennen, Jayce, Poppy, Teemo, Quinn, Renekton, Vayne, Lissandra, Jax, Irelia, etc. You're welcome.

NepgearDesu1 votes

Darius' bonus range on W is 25. Added to his regular, melee range of 175 units, that's a whopping 14% increase. "Far less than Riven has", I would imagine, and it doesn't affect anything but his W, while all of Riven's attacks benefit from increased range during her ultimate.

I don't have an opinion on this topic, just wanted to point out that measure and precision are usually welcome on both sides of the argument, or even only one.

5StackUltOneShot3 votes

{quoted}

When a Darius main complains about other champions.... for everything else there's mastercard.

No, but seriously what is your point? You are just listing an other champion's abilities. Where is the argument? What is the argument? Riven has abilities? Every champion has abilities. Let's list Darius abilities now.

His passive gives him bonus damage which scales with AD and stacks up 5 times into more bonus damage which gives him an even higher amount of bonus damage and the ability to apply all bonus damages on every new target as well. In any way soever it is a way stronger version of Riven's passive. His Q is aoe damage which also heals him. His W has bonus range, 90% slow effect on the enemy and an inbuilt "animation cancel" that you hate so much. His E is inbuilt armor penetration. You know that one which costs 2800 gold and an item slot for Riven. Darius gets it for free. Also it can be used as an aoe pull which also slows the enemies. His ult is a leap which is unstoppable, deals true damage and can be recasted multiple times. Also "At rank 3, if Noxian Guillotine kills its target, its cooldown reduction resets completely." (Give Riven a multi-recastable, unstoppable ult which deals true damage and see what happens. LOL)

Sum it up:

Riven: bonus damage (far less than Darius has), mobility, stun, shield, bonus range, knock up, wind slash, no resources Darius: bonus damage (far more than Riven has, it allows him to build tank and still deal insane damage), healing, bonus range, 2 slow effects, armor penetration, true damage, unstoppable ultimate, multi-recastable ultimate, 0 cooldown ultimate, better base stats

I fail to see how Riven's kit is more overloaded than Darius'.

"So, please, explain to me, what the fuck is the counterplay to this bullshit Riven?????"

Kennen, Jayce, Poppy, Teemo, Quinn, Renekton, Vayne, Lissandra, Jax, Irelia, etc. You're welcome.

So, the counterplay is other champions. Also I love how you stretch out Darius's descriptions but not Rivens, but ok lets play that game then.

Rivens passive is a % damage increase on her next AA every single time she uses an ability, bear in mind her AD is also amplified by her R and that she rarely builds defensive because her shield scales with AD and all Rivens buy item 3812, most Rivens will reach 400 AD at the minimum late game (Without counting infernal or Nash buffs OR her R), your amplifying it by 50%, she can proc this passive almost infinitely because of her 3 procs in the span of 1 Q cd. Her Q acts as an engage, disengage, wall jump and an AOE cc ability increased by her R, also 65% AD ratio aoe :). Her W, 100% AD scaling aoe stun, also increased range with R, btw two CC abilities on low cd's on a fighter :). Her E DASHH serves also as a way to chase or to escape while providing a 100% AD scaling shield :). Her R gives her, for 15 seconds, PASSIVELY (while activated), 20% bonus attack damage (That therefore increases her passive bonus AD) , 75 bonus attack range and increased range on every single ability. But no, thats not all, during these 15 seconds she also has the option to launch an AOE % MISSING HP EXECUTE that scales with 60% Bonus AD, but get this, the damage can be amplified by 200% based on your missing hp. All of this add to the fact that she synergises extremely well with alot of runes and can use almost any of them and that most items give free CDR and shit tons of damage and you have a broken champion that just gets better and betters if you decide to put in the experience.

Darius has a passive that gives a flat damage bonus on the condition that you AA a target 5 times (with the possibility of hitting your Q), it has a passive bleed that scales with 30% BONUS AD. His Q deals damage in a circle around him after a 1 second delay that also heals him for 12% of his missing hp provided that the target is on his outer edge, if the target is close to Darius, the damage is reduced to 35% and no healing is received nor is a stack applied. His W is an auto reset that slows by 90%. His E is a pull that also provides passively up to 35% armor pen at max rank. His R is an execute that deals more damage based on the amount of stacks on a target, at level 16 the base true damage is 300, scaling up to 600 with 5 stacks with a 75% BONUS AD Ratio.

So, Rivens survivability is non-conditional (instant shield) thats also tied to a dash on a champion that rushes CDR with a 100% AD scaling, Darius has a 12% missing hp shield thats conditional (i.e must be on outer edge) that also deals damage however, serverly reduced if target is too close. Hint, Darius is the bruiser, not Riven.

Riven's passive is (basically) non conditional and provides 50% more AD on each attack further amplified if R is being used, Darius requires 5 auto attacks on a champion with no mobility and no attack speed steroids (beyond his W).

Riven has an AOE stun with a 100% AD scaling with almost instant cast, Darius has a pull that is extremely hard to hit on close targets (as it is a cone) that deals no upfront damage.

Riven has an AOE Execute with the potential to deals 200% more damage with 3 passive benefits. Darius has a single target true damage execute that requires 5 stacks to deal any noticeable damage.

Riven has multiple options to engage, Darius has one (Use his E, flash E might help close a gap). Darius has one CC option, Riven has two.

??? Anything else you want to compare?

Oh, btw, RIVEN HAS NO RESOURCE BAR :)))))

Corvin07161 votes

Since all you did was a listing of Riven abilities one-sidedly I made one for Darius to make it two. You suggested that poor Darius is an unarmed underdog against the big-bad-overloaded Riven which is bs.

Darius has better base stats than Riven in every way. Riven is essentially an underdog against Darius, so her winning condition is outplay. You say Riven is not a fighter. Then what is she? Riven is the definition of a fighter champion. If she wants damage she has to buy AD, unlike Darius whose kit lets him build full tank and stil deals just as much damage. That is an attribute more of a tank than a bruiser. Tank's items are cheaper than bruiser's which lets Darius to push Riven out of lane even harder. Darius can beat Riven but if you just missing our abilities and running it down ofc she kills you. What you are saying about her "FUCKING no cooldowns" tells that you have no idea about her cooldowns. You may depend upon it a good Riven player knows Darius' cooldowns very well in order to trade with him efficiently.

5StackUltOneShot2 votes

{quoted}

Since all you did was a listing of Riven abilities one-sidedly I made one for Darius to make it two. You suggested that poor Darius is an unarmed underdog against the big-bad-overloaded Riven which is bs.

Darius has better base stats than Riven in every way. Riven is essentially an underdog against Darius, so her winning condition is outplay. You say Riven is not a fighter. Then what is she? Riven is the definition of a fighter champion. If she wants damage she has to buy AD, unlike Darius whose kit lets him build full tank and stil deals just as much damage. That is an attribute more of a tank than a bruiser. Tank's items are cheaper than bruiser's which lets Darius to push Riven out of lane even harder. Darius can beat Riven but if you just missing our abilities and running it down ofc she kills you. What you are saying about her "FUCKING no cooldowns" tells that you have no idea about her cooldowns. You may depend upon it a good Riven player knows Darius' cooldowns very well in order to trade with him efficiently.

When the fuck did I say Riven isnt a fighter? And yes, I listed abilities one sidedly in response to your one sided ability listing, fair no?

Darius has one of the highest base stats in the game to compensate for zero mobility, yes. Riven can build full AD and still drain tank with constant shields, Darius can build semi tank and still deal damage ON THE CONDITION that he gets five stacks.

Your arguments are baseless. Also, Riven, a 'high skill cap champion' has a higher player rate AND winrate than Darius, a supposedly 'easy champion', he both has lower playrate and winrate. ??? explanation?

Corvin07161 votes

When the fuck did I say Riven isnt a fighter?

"Hint, Darius is the bruiser, not Riven."

And yes, I listed abilities one sidedly in response to your one sided ability listing, fair no?

Original post of yours:

"Riven has triple my mobility, double my damage, an AOE execute, more range, wall jumps, FUCKING no cooldowns (which apparently used to be her weakness), two forms of CC, a 100% AD scaling shield on, what? a 4 second cooldown?, oh and (wait let me contain my laughter) 'animation cancels', an intended feature btw which allows her to use all her abilities in the span of my E pull lmao. So, what is the trade off here? Where is her 'inner q' that i can dodge? Or her extreme mobility trade off for less damage than other champions. WHAT IS SHE LOSING? Give Darius a fucking dash, see what happens.

IT DOES NOT WORK GIVING A CHAMPION BOTH SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM. IT. DOES. NOT."

In what universe or timeline does your OP count as a response to my answer that I posted later? You are living in a time loop or something? You cannot remember your own post???

Your arguments are baseless.

It is because you have no argument. That is what I said in the first place. You just listed abilities. Now you just keep repeating me.

....

You are obviously trollintg me so I leave it to you.

Dynikus2 votes

Riven complaints I understand, but why Vayne? You acknowledge that you're supposed to lose to Vayne because you're weak to ranged champions that can kite well.

SuicidePlank7 votes

{quoted}

Riven complaints I understand, but why Vayne? You acknowledge that you're supposed to lose to Vayne because you're weak to ranged champions that can kite well.

Because a Champion with so much self peel and Damage that you can't build anything to counter it against is just toxic, period. Remove that % Max HP Damage and while you are at it, on Fiora too.

PS: ,,Oh but Summoner, she needs 3 Autoattacks to proc it!" Have you heared about my friend item 3124 ?

Tychusfindlay9182 votes

There is legitimately ZERO you can do against vayne.

Riven is actually not that bad since it's harder for her to damage you without putting herself in a position where you can retaliate.

One is an autoloss without outside intervention, and the other is just a not-favorable skill matchup.

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

PTSD is psychological trauma that you can develop after suffering from a very traumatic event in your life.

War veteran that risked their and almost lost their life on a daily basis for their country can get PTSD. Some of them decided to end their life because they couldn't cope with it.

Losing at a videogame doesn't give you PTSD, don't fucking use that term for a meaningless videogame shitpost, ingrate.

SaltPatrol3 votes

Uhm. Stress is relative to the individual and it was obviously an exaggeration. Don't be so sensitive, the sand should wash out after a few washes.

ReySolomon1 votes

When I get top sometimes I pick darius most of the time (now I pick vlad more often) but sometimes I still pick darius but anyway..

She has 3 q's so the best thing to do is when she's about to throw her last q you E her and she'll probably dash away so you simply W and keep on autoing until you get your stacks on her and possibly kill her but I kind of doubt it since she has very low CD to escape.

in general she counters darius so I wouldn't be surprised if your having a rough time with her but it's possible to beat a riven I've done it multiple times.

Vayne… tbh that's just a farm lane for darius xD unless you wanna get randuins+bramble vest early that's your only solution instead of rushing Tri.

hiyares1 votes

im a cho main who lost tot he meta and is now following the path of bruisers and ops to get out of the damn lane atleast even. but in my experience with riven the best oprion is to try and catch her in the middle of her q or just after her aoe stun so that way you can make a quick trade with her before she can get a combo off or animation cancel for teh quick damage. i dont know if it would work the same on darius but i tend to hug vs her and when i find that small mistake beat the crap ut of her toss up into silence and auto e and get out. im assuming if you can hug for a bit and see how the riven you play against likes to combo you can abuse it with your pull to bait thestun on you under tower to get teh best trade. as for vayne shes broken there is no counter to her bs and riot just likes that skin money.

xDogMeatx1 votes

high skill adcs too tanky and has alot of mobility while high skill bruisers like Riven or kinda Jax has more burst/dps than juggernauts. (IMO its the items that break them they need to reduce maw and other 'defensive items' and actually lose something for that defense power up instead of punishing magic users using maw to pump steroids on them if they reach that 30% marker.) 2nd personal opinion adcs get way too much peel for their tankyness/damage.

GodlyBane1 votes

i thought it would be that darius is bad rn and shit (which im ngl he kinda is..). Hope they either revert or buff conquerer soon smh

LatetotheRace1 votes

Honestly riven needs to have her shield removed, and slows need to effect her Q distance covered. That way there's actually counterplay to her bullshit kit.

Corvin07164 votes

{quoted}

Honestly riven needs to have her shield removed, and slows need to effect her Q distance covered. That way there's actually counterplay to her bullshit kit.

So make her lose every single matchup against ranged champions and champions with poke. 0% winrate Riven, that is your idea of "balance". I hope you never dare to blame riot for bad balancing.

LatetotheRace1 votes

It would allow for balancing to be NOT a nightmare on her. The dash/shield combination is disgusting and insanely unbalanced. Then the Q makes her impossible to lockdown in any meaningful way.

Vlada Cut1 votes

Both Riven and Vayne need nerfs. Till then I'll make Darius suffer as Top Vayne

MorganFreemanBot1 votes

Riven has always been a lop sided skill matchup for Darius.

Against most Rivens, it boils down to Darius E. You can (and should) use it to cancel her third Q, which leaves her stranded and missing a substantial part of her combo, primed for an auto > W > Q > kill or disengage combo.

But, that's for riven players who can't do the INSANE animation cancels. If you bump into one of the ones who can pack all of their abilities in the time it takes her ulti to hit you, or some shit, Darius is going to lose the MU.

SirHydro1 votes

Buy a cloth armor and go top. Have 60 armor lvl1. Ninja Tabi's and Spirit Visage

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