Remake Koggy's Ult?

Rebonack··1 votes·544 views

I want to start by saying that I don't propose this lightly since I love AP Koggy.

Alright, that out of the way. Riot can't buff AP Kog as they have helped out off-builds like AP Ez and AP MF. The reason for this is really rather simple. When AP Koggy is strong it's nearly impossible to contest objectives because of his crazy poke. And that's a shame. It leaves poor Koggy sitting down there in 'will get curb stomped if I get popular' tier along with Poppy.

So to that end... A remake for Koggy's Ult to make it more useful to the only build Riot will allow to even approach being viable. Ranger Koggy.

Living Artillery: Kog'Maw empowers his next auto-attack to gain bonus range and damage to his target and foes near them. The attack still uses his Ult particle and projectile, allowing it to bypass Wall effects and giving the enemy team time to move away from the poor sod that just got targeted so they can avoid the AoE damage. This ability would retain its quickly ramping mana cost to prevent it from being spammed until you sink a bunch of gold into Mana.

So what would this do?

It wouldn't improve Kog's damage output, for one. Koggy already deals lots of damage regardless of his build. He doesn't need more. It would allow him to let Cait know how everyone else feels once he hits level 6. It would allow him to attack from non-suicidal ranges when his W is down, though he would be sharply limiting his rate of attack to do so. Most importantly it would cement him as the super long range auto-attack champion, a title that's been watered down pretty significantly with the release of Jinx.

The question, of course, would be how much range would the Ult give him? An extra 40 would put him back at 750 with his W up, which is how much range he got from the thing originally before Riot had the bright idea of nerfing his defining strengths instead of making his weaknesses more pronounced.

Anywho, thoughts on the concept?

5 Comments

ofart4 votes

There were some good insights in your other thread on how to improve Kog"maw without making him overbearing. Scaling the R bonus damage from 75% to 100% and finally 125% at level 16 was one idea. Keep in mind that AP Kog wasn't considered OP even when his ult. bonus damage was a flat 125% and without receiving any nerfs. They could even just buff his Q AP ratio back to what it used to be.

I agree that if he gets fed, objectives are hard to control (as long as your team has vision of flanks) but a fed champion is SUPPOSED to do that. Try contesting Dragon with a fed Katarina, Xerath, Syndra etc. You're basically saying he shouldn't even be rewarded for the one thing he's good at (especially with a dodgeable ult.). Teams aren't supposed to contest objectives while Kog rains down hell on them. They need to fight AND THEN try to take objectives or simply trade.

There are already dozens of counters to his playstyle both in champs like Kennen, Fizz, Akali, Katarina, Tryndamere, Ahri, Malphite, Sion, Shaco, Wu'Kong, Rengar, Nidalee, Zed etc. and items like Righteous Glory. Any type of hard engage on him spells instant death assuming equal gold and he's very easy to gank if he goes even a tiny bit away from his turret for some greedy CSing. There are also plenty of strategic options to counter him, such as split-pushing since he's rather slow, needs protection and can't react well to a team stretching him back and forth from one side of the map to the other. The other thread (linked inside yours) had a lot more discussion about this. In any case, he has clear weaknesses and clear strengths, both of which lie in extremes. There's nothing wrong with that and it's what makes him interesting.

I absolutely hate the new ult. idea. It works against Kog's identity as an artillery cannon and I find his current ult. very rewarding to hit for both AD and AP. The range is the most fun thing about it even if it's not as strong anymore. Your change would ruin him in my eyes and compromise the AP playstyle. I like everything about Kog atm except that I think some of his skills could use number tweaks. You can go create a new champion with those ideas but don't destroy the most iconic ability Kog has.

Rebonack1 votes

I absolutely hate the new ult. idea.

So do I!

But the goal is less to propose an idea that works and more to generate discussion. A great way to get things rolling is with a stupid idea.

The justification for not buffing AP Koggy is basically what Riot has said when the topic has come up. That or something along the lines of 'we don't balance for off-builds'. I'm here to spitball ideas with people, not lay down the law.

Scaling his Ult bonus damage was what was on the PBE if I recall correctly, but that was replaced with the straight nerf. Even just tweaking it to 105/115/125 would help. And it's probably also worth mentioning that the meta Koggy was strong in has been more or less crushed thanks to the vast importance of the new Dragon buffs. Alas, it isn't that often that Riot reverts nerfs after the meta shifts. Though they MIGHT buff elsewhere in the kit months down the line.

LaughingStapler1 votes

I'd argue that the meta shift back to assassins hurts him more than any Dragon changes. Since the Chalice nerf, champions less dependent on blue, such as Zed and Alkali are also stronger and happen to be Kog counters. Kog is best vs mids without high burst or gap closers. I was surprised that I had a lot of trouble vs Annie despite the huge range difference. She could zone me from creeps because if her stun got me I'd be chunked really hard. At 6, the zoning got even worse despite my ult. The problem was that while her range wasn't high, the Flash->Stun->R combo range is as long as mine and I can't survive that. The point is that Kog matches aren't as clear as they seem on paper and sometimes even miss without gap closers can be a problem if they have high burst.

It's also more difficult for him to stall out games. The new Baron buff is hard to hold off while at a disadvantage (compared to the easy minion wave clear Kog had last season) and the new Dragon bonuses make it easier to take turrets. Even the MS bonus is annoying if the other team gets it because that's just another way for them to get to him and it makes dodging his ults. easier too.

On the other hand, these points apply in reverse too. If Kog's team gets an advantage, it's also harder than before for the enemy team to come back. Games just tend to snowball more now. This isn't favorable for Kog though because he's fairly weak until level 11 or so.

Rebonack1 votes

AP Koggy has always been pretty weak against Annie, honestly. So long as she keeps on her toes, the threat of her flash combo is enough to keep him away. He really does best against mids who just want to loaf around and farm. That lets him do his thing and slowly work his way toward midgame unmolested. The changes Riot has made to the game's epic monsters, both Baron and Dragon, help with pushing and generally ending the game more quickly. And games ending quickly makes Koggy sad. Regardless of whether he's AP or AD, he thrives deep into late game.

On an unrelated note, how would fellow AP Kog enthusiasts feel about W and R dealing physical damage?

Before you balk, keep in mind that would mean you're snagging a Muramana instead of the usual AA Staff for effectively the same gameplay. He could probably get away with just getting a chalice without upgrading the thing to support his Ult spam.

LaughingStapler1 votes

That would just make AD Kog OP and he'd probably get Muramana too. I don't even know how you can suggest that without instantly realizing how completely broken it would be. Imagine if the current AD Kog got a free VS once he bought LW. That's basically what you'd have.

It would also crush AP Kog. Even if he went mid, he would build AD. This would make him more niche since sometimes you want more magic damage but it would also make him far too strong at pushing. His scaling would also be unreal since he'd have the poke damage of traditional AP Kog while retaining the autos of AD Kog.

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