Good job rito, no sarcasm. I have 61.3k mastery points in Kog'Maw and I wholeheartedly think that this change will make ADC Kog'Maw stronger by giving him early power scaling.
Disregard any threads from ignorant people who rarely if ever played Kog'Maw in their entire league career.
Best Kog NA7 votesWell said.I think that Riot knows what they are doing when they rework 
. They did a fantastic job with his rework because now he's much more fun and distinct to play.
LaughingStapler4 votes[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZcgREUIe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-29T21:57:44.266+0000)
Well said.I think that Riot knows what they are doing when they rework
How is pressing W and attacking fast while nearly rooted interesting and skillful? He was much more interesting AND VERSATILE before. You weren't forced into an on-hit build like a mindless monkey regardless of situation and you had more power in R so it was more skillful.
Best Kog NA4 votes now has something unique about him. He is the only champion in the game to break the 2.5 attack speed limit. With the rework riot gave Kog something that now defines KogMaw
Rebonack3 votes[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZcgREUIe,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-29T23:55:01.021+0000)
Unique does not necessarily mean useful.
If Kog's W did nothing to his attack speed and instead caused his basic attacks to proc OnHit effects twice it would be significantly more powerful.
Best Kog NA3 votesBut the doubling of his attack speed has led to new stratagies being formed around that 5.0 attack speed. It also has a psychological warfare element to it. A 5.0 kog maw is scary.
ForeverLaxx3 votesWhat "new strategy"? Do you mean the "protect the Kog strategy"? Because that one has always existed due to Kog having no mobility whatsoever. Interestingly, I don't see any strategy that this new Kog brings that old Kog didn't. He could always build AD, AP, or OnHit -- only thing now is that his unnecessary rework to make an already unique ranged carry "more special" forced the OnHit build as the one everyone builds.
Don't mistake gimmick item builds for strategy.
LaughingStapler1 votes[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZcgREUIe,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-29T23:55:01.021+0000)
How is that unique in an interesting way? His ult. is way more unique. Now he's just mindless compared to before both in builds and playstyle.
LOL Spammer1 votesHow is having 5.0 attack speed not unique?
Rebonack1 votes[{quoted}](name=LOL Spammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZcgREUIe,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-30T14:48:46.100+0000)
How is having 5.0 attack speed not unique?
Unique in an interesting way.
AP Kog mains were never particularly enamored by Kog's long range machine gun aspect. They're into the artillery platform part. And that took some hefty hits (along with Kog's tank-busting) to open up kit power for the new machine-gun tripod play style.
It shouldn't be difficult to figure out why a third of Kog's player-base wouldn't find this compelling.
Alleo1 votesI don't know, I kinda like pressing W and killing everyone that way. Now when I get tripples or more I can go into all chat and say "sorry guys I puked a little"
Pierce The Veal1 votes[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZcgREUIe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-29T21:57:44.266+0000)
I think that Riot knows what they are doing
Meanwhile Xin Zhao on PBE.
Best Kog NA2 votesThats why I said when they were reworking Kog :P In most other cases, like Xin.... They kinda dont have a single clue. They brought in a Japanese tentacle porn comic maker when they were making Illaoi....
Pierce The Veal1 votes[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZcgREUIe,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-29T23:56:25.318+0000)
Thats why I said when they were reworking Kog :P In most other cases, like Xin.... They kinda dont have a single clue. They brought in a Japanese tentacle porn comic maker when they were making Illaoi....
Well it's just plain logic.
A really easy way to see how it effects people is just check what people max most often when building certain items! Then crosscheck the buffs with the nerfs, or the shifts in power, then it becomes easy to detect what would go wrong!
Honestly AP kog needs buffs, but not to attack speed. He needs his ult to actually be worth using. Attack speed ap kog doesn't really ult much, but the true AP kog is a siege cannon with his ult. If I have to use half my mana bar to deal miniscule damage there's a problem!
Rebonack1 votesWell it's just plain logic.
A really easy way to see how it effects people is just check what people max most often when building certain items! Then crosscheck the buffs with the nerfs, or the shifts in power, then it becomes easy to detect what would go wrong!
Honestly AP kog needs buffs, but not to attack speed. He needs his ult to actually be worth using. Attack speed ap kog doesn't really ult much, but the true AP kog is a siege cannon with his ult. If I have to use half my mana bar to deal miniscule damage there's a problem!
Two ways Riot could help out AP Kog.
Either give his Ult smoother bonus damage scaling (2.666% per 1% missing would keep it at the same power upon reaching 25% as Live).
Or give Kog's Ult a flat AP ratio that doesn't get boosted against low HP targets.
Of the two, the second would do a better job of resolving between AD and AP Kog builds. AD Kog uses his ult to finish off fleeing foes. AP Kog uses it for relentless poke.
Pierce The Veal1 votesTwo ways Riot could help out AP Kog.
Either give his Ult smoother bonus damage scaling (2.666% per 1% missing would keep it at the same power upon reaching 25% as Live).
Or give Kog's Ult a flat AP ratio that doesn't get boosted against low HP targets.
Of the two, the second would do a better job of resolving between AD and AP Kog builds. AD Kog uses his ult to finish off fleeing foes. AP Kog uses it for relentless poke.
Indeed those might work.
My own idea was for Kog to actually have the scaling mana cost removed altogether and give it a flat mana cost. This won't benefit AD kog all that much, but AP kog will have his own "minigame" where he slowly pokes away with a serious barrage. Add the former idea of yours to this and AP kog is good to go.
Zydron5 votesI agree, it will definitely speed up his power spikes in the early stages of the game
Pierce The Veal2 votesI agree, it will definitely speed up his power spikes in the early stages of the game
It definitely will if you're ad or on hit kog.
AP kog rip.
Sightless663 votesNo one is debating that it will technically make him stronger. The question is how much stronger it will make him, and there's a lot of reason to think it won't be enough to actually make him good. It's a pretty small buff for one of the worst AD carries in the game.
Rebonack2 votesIt'll be a neutral change to Marksmen Kog.
Going W first and leading with Pickaxe will be better. Kog will be slightly stronger against champs he can fight effectively early game.
Going Q first and leading with Blasting Wand will be worse. He'll be even weaker against champs he can only afford to do quick trades with.
If Riot were interested in fixing Kog, they would be focusing on finding a healthy way to make his W duration more robust.
arcinex1 votesI don't ever build Rageblade on AD Kog'Maw. And for those who do, nobody will be stupid enough to ever max Q first and buy blasting wand first on AD Kog'Maw after the changes to Kog'Maw that are currently on PBE.
Kog'Maw isn't broken and therefore doesn't need fixing. Touching Kog's W duration is very iffy and would most likely make Kog too overpowered even if they only shave off a mere 2 seconds on his W cooldown.
However, there are build paths to accommodate this niche. EX: Essence reaver -> runaan's (or vice versa) -> IE (or you could alternatively build CDR boots for the remaining 10% and build BT, Bork, or Merc). This puts his W on a 4.2 second CD. Of if you're real nitpicky about it you can use the CDR mastery and get 45% CDR which would put his W on a 3.85 CD.
Now imagine if Riot W's duration more "robust" (implying that it isn't already), Kog'Maw will literally have his W up 24/7 becoming the first authentic machine gun artillery that never needs to reload, so to say. And Rito if you are reading this please, don't give Kog'Maw a bulshit reload like you did with Graves.
Rebonack2 votesI don't ever build Rageblade on AD Kog'Maw.
I'm sorry.
And for those who do, nobody will be stupid enough to ever max Q first and buy blasting wand first on AD Kog'Maw after the changes to Kog'Maw that are currently on PBE.
They sure won't.
Kog'Maw isn't broken and therefore doesn't need fixing.
His non-existent pick-rate seems to suggest otherwise, but okay. Broken in the sense of 'he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing'. Not broken in the sense of way too strong or way too weak. Rather, Kog is supposed to be the go-to ADC when you want raw balls to the walls sustained damage and nothing else.
Touching Kog's W duration is very iffy and would most likely make Kog too overpowered even if they only shave off a mere 2 seconds on his W cooldown.
Fun fact: When Kog was released his W had a 6 second duration and he was universally considered the worst ADC in the game. It got buffed up to 10 seconds and he was too strong. Then it got nerfed down to 8 seconds (lost 40 attack range, too). The uptime on Kog's W is central to his success because he's the only ADC aside from Sivir who has his primary niche gated by a cooldown that can't be mitigated. This is less of a problem for Sivir since her thing is team initiation. It is a problem for Kog since his thing is sustained damage, of which he has less than Ezreal when his W is down.
LaughingStapler1 votesIt'll be a neutral change.
Going W first and leading with Pickaxe will be better. Kog will be slightly stronger against champs he can fight effectively early game.
Going Q first and leading with Blasting Wand will be worse. He'll be even weaker against champs he can only afford to do quick trades with.
If Riot were interested in fixing Kog, they would be focusing on finding a healthy way to make his W duration more robust.
It's a nerf to poke style AP Kog with no compensation. SIGH! Riot, please don't destroy my favorite way of playing Kog and then ignore me for months. :(
Pierce The Veal2 votesYeah but RIP AP kog even more.
Bonipherus2 votesI just don't like it because it's just a bandage to one small thing instead of actually fixing the problems in his kit.
Alleo2 votesWhen his rework first came out I though "oh W buffs his attack speed so any attack speed passive will be placed on his W." I was very confused when it wasn't.
Shadowteen202 votesYeah. You say disregard any other thread, but have you seen any of the objections against it? or perhaps, PLAYED with the change? I have, and I can say that it really removes his early game power, and does absolutely nothing to mid or late game. It is a meaningless change that does nothing to help Kog'maw. At least be open to other opinions, instead of completely knocking them down without care.
Oh, and btw, I am also a high mastery Kog'maw at 53.6K. The problem is with that? You could possibly have gotten most of that BEFORE the preseason changes.... Soooo yeah
Yuumi or Lose1 votesThe only problem I have with Kog is his mana cost. His E at level 5 is 120 with a very long cooldown and only scales AP. The slow doesn't even make up for it when it scales each point. His W, which use to be free, is now 40 mana. And his ult should be reverted back to 40 mana per continuous cast. Other than that, I think Kog is fine.
Twitch Chat1 votesIt makes sense considering after the change to a flat 2% max HP per attack instead of 2-6% leveling his W doesnt actually increase your damage in any way. Unfortunately with this change his Q wont even be worth a value point.
Erockandroll1 votesRage blade gives 30AD 40AP at first, total of 54 AD, 72AP, and 64%AS when fully stacked.
This is extremely stat efficient and basically first build on Kog ADC. Something I want to explore though, is an AP scaling on hit build, rather than a flat one. Since Rageblade is already a good start for an AP/AS build.
Nashor's tooth offers 50% AS, 80AP 20% CDR, and 15 + 15%AP on hit damage. If we combined this with the on hit damage from rage blade, we would have 35 + 15% bonus AD + 22.5% AP to the primary target. that's 35 + 8 + 34 = 77 magic damage on hit with just those two items. Which combined offer over 114% AS.
This might be hard to Justify given the alternative of BotRK, which offers 60 damage for every 1k current health. But one of the reasons I'm looking in this direction is because of Kog'maws other AP ratio's, both on his Bio Arcane barrage as well as his ult. I also look in this direction because if I can focus mostly on the magic damage. (From items, and passively from Bio Arcane Barrage) I can more easily build penetration with items like Wit's end, or possibly even void staff.