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Regarding Incarnati0n's "Perma-ban"

arcinex··42 votes·7,264 views

So how does Incarnati0n become unbanned from his serious, so-called "perma-ban?" It was even stated that any accounts created by him were to be instantly deleted. Explain how he became unbanned? As far as I know, his absurdly high win ratio during the season 4 solo q season was due to his infamous DDOSing.

175 Comments

Ixlin2 votes
LongSh4dows15 votes

I love that DarkWinJax averaged over 3 reports per game, for 590 games, and still is allowed to have active accounts. So much for the effectiveness of reporting. "Hey we know this guy gets reported in 50% of his games for homophobic, offensive, and hostile language, making the game unpleasant for over 5000 other players. But he is not as bad as he used to be!"

Thanks Riot.

GibonGra8 votes

His accounts were banned, forcing him to make new ones. Riot has never stopped banned players from making new accounts. Jensen himself was banned from competition indefinitely, which isn't the same as permanently. "Indefinitely" means it's potentially permanent, but open to change if circumstances improve. Also, that was over 2 years ago, so by now he has probably grown up and matured. Riot has reviewed his behavior on his alts like Reversio and found that he's no longer toxic, so I see no reason to not give him a chance.

arcinex8 votes

{quoted}

His accounts were banned, forcing him to make new ones. Riot has never stopped banned players from making new accounts. Jensen himself was banned from competition indefinitely, which isn't the same as permanently. "Indefinitely" means it's potentially permanent, but open to change if circumstances improve. Also, that was over 2 years ago, so by now he has probably grown up and matured. Riot has reviewed his behavior on his alts like Reversio and found that he's no longer toxic, so I see no reason to not give him a chance.

I am aware of the definition of permanent. Also, in this case Riot stated that any further accounts created by Jensen were to be perma-banned on the spot. So how is it that during this time he was able to create accounts and continue playing?

Godhri12 votes

because they are desperate for a Cinderella story of redemption. OH LOOK. MOST INFAMOUSLY TOXIC GUY IN WORLD HAS CHANGED HIMSELF TO BE UPSTANDING INDIVIDUAL. Riot is probably utilizing the publicity of this situation to send a message to toxic players. If a guy with this kind of history changes with Riot's punishment system, then they can do it to anyone.

Remlap12235 votes

{quoted}

because they are desperate for a Cinderella story of redemption. OH LOOK. MOST INFAMOUSLY TOXIC GUY IN WORLD HAS CHANGED HIMSELF TO BE UPSTANDING INDIVIDUAL. Riot is probably utilizing the publicity of this situation to send a message to toxic players. If a guy with this kind of history changes with Riot's punishment system, then they can do it to anyone.

If that's true, I hope Riot gets all the shit in the world for that. That would probably be the tipping point of me completely quitting League altogether.

ajwf2 votes

He's wrong... Riot's main reason for change on the ruling is due to their recent changes in how they plan on handling toxicity in the community. If you've noticed, instead of sweeping it under the rug, Riot is trying to actually solve the problem.

The same is seen here. It is near impossible to constantly catch someone determined enough to continue playing a game with as much traffic as LOL has. So instead of letting toxic behavior fester (Which it really wasn't in incarnation's case, as he was an active, positive part of the community after the ban even away from solo queue), they want to reform it.

Wickedfates3 votes

so if you could please explain to me how this works?

toxicity will be fixed by promoting, and putting on a pedestal one of the most toxic cheaters this game, which has a reputation for extreme toxicity, has ever seen....

how are they trying to fix it... they are changing the rules to allow this behavior, this condones it.... whats the worse that can happen to you in this game, even if you are caught doing everything they tell you you are not allowed to do... not a thing, you can keep playing, get paid for playing even....

It is near impossible to constantly catch someone determined enough to continue playing a game with as much traffic as LOL has

but they did, they continued to catch him, over and over again they caught him cheating....

(Which it really wasn't in incarnation's case, as he was an active, positive part of the community after the ban even away from solo queue)

im trying to understand you.... so a player in your opinion who ddos, bots, and commits RP fraud.... thats is a positive influence to you?

KilljoyX4 votes

{quoted}

because they are desperate for a Cinderella story of redemption. OH LOOK. MOST INFAMOUSLY TOXIC GUY IN WORLD HAS CHANGED HIMSELF TO BE UPSTANDING INDIVIDUAL. Riot is probably utilizing the publicity of this situation to send a message to toxic players. If a guy with this kind of history changes with Riot's punishment system, then they can do it to anyone.

Considering he is still comically toxic he encourages toxic players "Your toxcitiy doesn't matter all that matters is your personal play skill."

GibonGra6 votes

{quoted}

I am aware of the definition of permanent. Also, in this case Riot stated that any further accounts created by Jensen were to be perma-banned on the spot. So how is it that during this time he was able to create accounts and continue playing?

Policies change. I'm sure they meant that originally, but then decided to give him a chance to change. Hell, when Riot started doing these ban reviews, they said it was because they thought players should have a chance to reform. And realistically, they probably also realized how it's nearly impossible to keep people from playing an online game, so they gave people like Jensen incentive to change.

Also, it's not like he got special treatment. Riot reviewed other former and prospective pros. Some have been unbanned from competition, others haven't. C9 signed him after he passed the review.

arcinex9 votes

{quoted}

Policies change. I'm sure they meant that originally, but then decided to give him a chance to change. Hell, when Riot started doing these ban reviews, they said it was because they thought players should have a chance to reform. And realistically, they probably also realized how it's nearly impossible to keep people from playing an online game, so they gave people like Jensen incentive to change.

Also, it's not like he got special treatment. Riot reviewed other former and prospective pros. Some have been unbanned from competition, others haven't. C9 signed him after he passed the review.

From a non-professional player's point of view, it seems like he indeed received special treatment from Riot, as with other pro players. If it were just an average every-day, non professional player, would Riot even take a minute of their time to review a perma-banned case? Highly unlikely.

GibonGra5 votes

{quoted}

From a non-professional player's point of view, it seems like he indeed received special treatment from Riot, as with other pro players. If it were just an average every-day, non professional player, would Riot even take a minute of their time to review a perma-banned case? Highly unlikely.

Would they stop you from simply making a new account? If someone behaves well on a new account, I doubt Riot just straight up bans it these days. It's not like Incarnati0n got his actual account unbanned, not the way I remember it anyway.

Wickedfates1 votes

i dont understand, so you think cheating is ok if its not on ur main? if you play on an acct.... is that not an actual account?

Vixanys2 votes

He didn't get back any of his accounts or the content on those accounts. He was contacted by Riot when they made revisions to the perma-ban policy (as were MANY other people!).

He was allowed to make a new account that would be heavily monitored for behavior and other implications he was original banned for.

There has been no evidence of any cheating since Q1 2014 or Q3 2013. He failed his End-of-Year because his behavior while good was not enough to counter-act the severity of his previous implications, but he was informed that he would still be monitored and would receive another review that if positive would result in possibilities for Summer 2015.

DestructoDave5 votes

{quoted}

From a non-professional player's point of view, it seems like he indeed received special treatment from Riot, as with other pro players. If it were just an average every-day, non professional player, would Riot even take a minute of their time to review a perma-banned case? Highly unlikely.

Yep. Pro players do recieve special treatment. I honestly believe the conspiracy theories of Pro players and LCS as the main reason they wont move servers to a place better for both sides of the country, too. Sad to think most of the population is on the east coast, yet the servers are about as far west as they can be, probably just so the LCS players can stay at peak shape.

Most people dont even get the luxury of a real person looking at their case. They are deemed guilty by an automated system and have literally no recourse, and even if they do get a red, its hard to say if hes talking about new stuff they did/say, or some old stuff where they got in trouble in the first place, since you get zero evidence except for some red posting you deserved it after he looked at your case. For all we know, he could be looking at the stuff that got the guy in trouble in the first place, not the most recent things.

I think the only pro player that got rekt was IWD. Just for raging he got like a year ban, and all he did was throw his headphones. Where kids like Incarnation can ddos and get a slap on the wrist. There was some other light punishments to worse pro's after that, but they really stuck it to IWD, compared to the last few punishments handed down.

Its apparent at this point that the vast majority of Riot's decisions are focused on their Esports.

qetzel1 votes

They didn't review the permaban though. His account is still banned.

For every other perma ban you can still play. How the hell does Riot stop you from making a new account?

As this is the first event of its kind, Riot needed a new set of rules and decided on reform.

Wickedfates2 votes

this is the first time riot has dealt with toxic behavior or cheaters? i do not believe so.... and his punishment specifically stated he could not create other accounts.... the player was ban, making a new acct it is still the same player making the acct

Vixanys6 votes

Why is this such a hard thing to understand, he was contacted by Riot (after they updated their banning policies) and told he gets "Parole". By which they would aggressively monitor his play. He passed this period and was allowed back to play League of Legends once again.

http://na.lolesports.com/articles/competitive-policy-revision-permabanned-players

In addition, there was never any evidence of DDoS in his games. It was an unsubstantiated claim. Without proof, you are inherently innocent until proven guilty.

He has apparently changed and for that we can enjoy his mechanical plays.

Also this:

As far as I know, his absurdly high win ratio during the season 4 solo q season was due to his infamous DDOSing.

Is pure heresay. You have never played with him, and can only take the people who have played with him words on it.

Ayame Isaki3 votes

Careful, your facts and logic might interfere with the false dichotomy circle jerk.

Vixanys3 votes

So many posts about this, of people who have no idea what they are talking about and ignore every statement Riot has ever made about their banning policies.

It's rather pathetic.

Wickedfates1 votes

care to elaborate?

Vixanys1 votes

Most of the people in this thread look only at the fact that he has been banned and fail to realize that Riot updated their policies and contacted players who were previously perma-banned to allow them the chance for reform.

Blindly shit-talking a player or ignorantly commenting on the fact that he is playing "while perma-banned" and ignore changes that Riot themselves implement to promote reform.

Earl Eulrich4 votes

TSM, and by extension North America, has a bit of work to do. However we are confident that Incarnati0n will eventually propel Cloud9 to be a legitimate international competitor again. (http://euw.lolesports.com/articles/power-rankings-5192015)

There´s your solid reason for suddenly unbanning him. *sigh* kinda a sad move from C9 though, don´t think I´ll ever cheer for them again.

somexotherxguy8 votes

I would wait to see how incarnati0n acts during his time on C9. If he actually seems like a better person then root for C9, if not then don't root for C9.

Bhargo2 votes

people dont change

GibonGra4 votes

{quoted}

people dont change

They do when they grow up from being stupid teenagers, which is what he was at the time.

Bhargo2 votes

the problem isn't he was a teenager, the problem is he is a terrible person. being a teenager isn't an excuse for being a scumbag, plenty of people were teenagers once, and they managed to not be vile to everyone they met.

qetzel4 votes

http://na.lolesports.com/articles/end-year-review-nicolaj-%E2%80%9Cincarnati0n%E2%80%9D-jensen

http://na.lolesports.com/articles/2015-mid-year-long-term-suspension-reviews

Google gives these answers. I believe that a permaban is one in which Riot stops you from playing on a specific account permanently. It would be impossible for them to stop anyone from making a new account. "League-suspended players who had their accounts permabanned will not have their original accounts unbanned. Their future accounts will not be banned so long as they are not abused." Incarnati0n received an indefinite suspension. This was altered over a year ago to be subject to change based on review

(Reasoning "Moving forward, we're balancing the need to protect our players from toxic behavior with the additional goal of recognizing and encouraging reform. Although it’s still important to be responsive to past offenses, going forward an additional goal is to put offenders on the path to reform and acknowledge their genuine efforts toward reform during long periods of punishment. It’s important to us that players who have genuinely and demonstrably reformed get a second chance at being a part of the game and the competitive community.")

Hope this helped.

58738074DEL13 votes

[deleted]

Wickedfates15 votes

http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1122163 http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1015978

I want to update you on the status of a currently banned European player.

Player: Nicolaj Jensen / Incarnati0n (Also Veigodx / Wizikx / Wizikodex) Region: Europe

Ruling As a result of this player’s long history of DDOS activity, abusive behaviour and poor sportsmanship across multiple accounts, the player behavior team issued a lifetime ban on Jensen.

His Incarnati0n account has been permabanned in accordance with this ruling. All future accounts will be permabanned on sight.

Jensen has violated the Summoner’s Code in a persistent and remorseless fashion. This kind of behaviour negatively affects the experience of countless other players.

His disrespect for the rules of the game is unacceptable for any player, especially a high-profile eSports competitor who had a regular opportunity to lead the community by example.

For more specific details into the original case, please refer to the ruling thread: http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1015978

League of Legends Competition Ruling

Player: Nicolaj Jensen / Veigodx Region: Europe Date of Ruling: 01.23.13 Subject: Suspension; Violations of Summoner’s Code

Facts Recently, Riot completed an investigation into the account histories of the players on teams which are scheduled to compete in the upcoming League of Legends Championship Series (“LCS”) European Qualifier.

The investigation has confirmed a number of facts in the player history of Nicolaj Jensen (“Jensen”), including a consistent pattern of in-game verbal abuse, offensive behavior and negative attitude which require immediate action.

Jensen’s Veigodx account has been punished by Tribunal three times, including as recently as January 9, 2013. In fewer than three months since the creation of this account, the Veigodx account has established a consistent record of in-game harassment, abuse, and poor behavior:

58.8% of reports against Veigodx were for Offensive Language, Verbal Abuse, and Negative Attitude.

Worse, however, are the violations in Jensen’s gameplay history:

On multiple occasions, he has publicly and unapologetically admitted to engaging in a series of DDOS attacks against high-Elo players.
    Here is one example:




Jensen has been permanently banned twice before. In August of 2012, a majority of players on the Tribunal voted to permaban Wizikx, a previous Jensen account. After reviewing the facts, the Riot player behavior team upheld the ban. Another Jensen account, Wizikodex, was permabanned in December 2012 for similar behavior.

As a result of this player’s history of DDOS activity, abusive behavior and poor sportsmanship, the player behavior team has issued a lifetime ban on Jensen. His Veigodx account has been permabanned and all future accounts will be permabanned on sight.

Relevant Rules The Summoner's Code establishes the standards of behavior for all League of Legends players.

Analysis Jensen has consistently disregarded the letter and spirit of the Summoner’s Code. His disrespect for the rules of the game is unacceptable for any player, especially a high-profile eSports competitor who has a regular opportunity to lead the community by example.

Ruling Jensen has violated the Summoner’s Code in a persistent and remorseless fashion.

Competition Penalties Jensen is:

Ineligible to compete in the LCS Season Three European Qualifier in Warsaw, January 25-27, 2013.
Ineligible to compete in the LCS indefinitely; this suspension shall commence immediately.
Ineligible to compete in any Riot-affiliated League of Legends tournaments indefinitely; this suspension shall commence immediately.
Celosar12 votes

So how did he magically get unbanned?

Possibly more importantly, how did he manage to keep up his skills while being banned for two years?? Just sayin...

arcinex26 votes

{quoted}

So how did he magically get unbanned?

Possibly more importantly, how did he manage to keep up his skills while being banned for two years?? Just sayin...

He was allegedly able to create accounts to continue playing. This really questions Riot's integrity as a company.

Wickedfates3 votes

oh and...

Jensen has been permanently banned twice before. In August of 2012, a majority of players on the Tribunal voted to permaban Wizikx, a previous Jensen account. After reviewing the facts, the Riot player behavior team upheld the ban. Another Jensen account, Wizikodex, was permabanned in December 2012 for similar behavior.

As a result of this player’s history of DDOS activity, abusive behavior and poor sportsmanship, the player behavior team has issued a lifetime ban on Jensen. His Veigodx account has been permabanned and all future accounts will be permabanned on sight.

which didnt happen at all it seems... again and again permabanned... and then unbanned....

Celosar17 votes

I'm actually REALLY interested in a red response here. How is this even possible??? They permaban people for being dicks all the time. Why does this guy get a pass??????

And DDOS'ing? Is this like the result of being really good or did C9 suck off the RIOT CEO?

ajwf5 votes

If I recall correctly, Incarnations went on to work as a coach/analyst for SK gaming. He couldn't be on stage and couldn't participate in worlds or whatever, but his behavior was markedly better. That was the huge reason for his unban.

AlphaKappaPika1 votes

{quoted}

He was allegedly able to create accounts to continue playing. This really questions Riot's integrity as a company.

Well i mean... its not like they can find out he is making new accounts unless they check the ip from every new account of which there is like 1,000,000 people joining and making new accounts every day.

LongSh4dows6 votes

But they do know he is making new accounts. In fact, they seem to know all the alt accounts as well and used them in the review process as well.

Trick1F1 votes

{quoted}

He was allegedly able to create accounts to continue playing. This really questions Riot's integrity as a company.

Or they decided to give him a second chance and, if in the last two years, he has shown improvement Riot is offering one final attempt for him to be a part of this community.

Wickedfates3 votes

he was given chance after chance after chance, until they either didnt catch him, or let him slide even though he continued violating policy.... at least 3-4 permabans before they changed the policy...

here are some excerpts from the links, feel free to read for more info, this should upset anyone who tries to follow the rules...

-has been punished by Tribunal three times -On multiple occasions, he has publicly and unapologetically admitted to engaging in a series of DDOS attacks against high-Elo players. -has been permanently banned twice before -Another account, Wizikodex, was permabanned in December 2012 for similar behavior -While suspended, Jensen was found guilty of the following offenses which are either violations of the LCS rules, CS rules, spirit of the Summoner’s Code, or Terms of Use.

Implicated in DDOSing players (Q2 2013)
Utilizing botted accounts (Q4 2013)
Redemption of RP rewards obtained through Refer-a-Friend fraud (Q4 2013)
Account Sharing as recently as Q1 2014

http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1015978&page=1#post10180118 http://na.lolesports.com/articles/end-year-review-nicolaj-%E2%80%9Cincarnati0n%E2%80%9D-jensen

Vixanys2 votes

Jensen remains suspended from Riot-affiliated League of Legends tournaments including but not limited to the LCS and CS Jensen’s case will be reviewed again at least 5 weeks before the LCS Summer 2015 roster declaration date

"Since his last review, Jensen has continued to demonstrate behavior in game that is well above the normal standards of good behavior across all of his accounts since at least January 2014. Additionally, according to our monitoring tools, he has not been implicated in any DDOS or Drophacking-related exploits since Q2 2013. There have been no serious offenses or violations of the letter or spirit of the Summoner Code since his account-sharing related offense in Q1 2014."

"Jensen’s past permabanned accounts will remain banned, as will any content he lost as a result of his original offenses. Reform is meant to earn players second chances, not undo all of the consequences of their past actions."

"When evaluating whether a person who committed serious transgressions in the past is a different person today, we use a combination of quantitative data about their in-game behavior and our own judgment in determining whether the player in question has truly changed his ways. All the data supports the conclusion that Jensen has legitimately reformed and has earned a second chance. If he decides to enter the LCS or CS, we will hold him to the same high standards we hold all professional players to and will continue to monitor his in-game behavior."

He has been judged and found reformed. He is not off the hook, if anything being in the LCS will put him in a larger spot light. If anything pops up it will likely result in him going back into suspension (of which he has been part of for 5 splits over 3 seasons of play).

Wickedfates2 votes

{quoted}

He has been judged and found reformed. He is not off the hook, if anything being in the LCS will put him in a larger spot light. If anything pops up it will likely result in him going back into suspension (of which he has been part of for 5 splits over 3 seasons of play).

i respectfully disagree.... it seems to me they continued giving him (and others) chance after chance to "reform" until he finally passed, they even changed the rules to do so... and now if he is caught cheating or violating the rules, again, another suspension which will be lifted when he again shows he "reformed"

enough chances.... enough... he isnt reformed, he is sponsored

Vixanys1 votes

This entire debate is your opinion versus mine and even then it is missing a lot of factual information.

The entire process from his first ban to the last review has been a escalating attempt at reform that in Riot's eyes has worked.

First, Q1 2013 Perma-ban of Account: Veigodx + inability to join competitive League (LCS/CS)

Second, Q2 2013 Complete Perma-ban from League. All current and Future accounts.

Third, Q1 2014 (a year after his ban) was found Account Sharing...Playing the game on someone else's account.

Forth, Q4 2014 (MORE THAN A YEAR AFTER HIS perma-ban) Riot changes Perma-ban rules. All players with Perma-bans receive acknowledgement that they can create new accounts (Perma-banned accounts and content are left gone).

Fifth, Q4 2014 (End of Year) Review shows behaviorally Incarnati0n is reformed but lack of substantial data pushes this review to at least 5 weeks before LCS Summer.

Sixth, Q2 2015 (more than 2 years since his complete ban from League of Legends and more than a year since any infractions of any kind) He is reviewed after 6 months of a parole'd period and found to be reformed.

As you can see the punishment escalated from a single account perma-ban to his complete ban from the game. During this time he was found to be playing on someone's account just to play the game.

Two years of being kept from a game...for mistakes he made in the past doesn't seem like fair to you? Now that he is back and has seemingly reformed you want to bring back his mistakes and continue punishing him for it? I don't think that is fair to anyone.

Mistakes were made, toxicity/cheating was punished. He seems to be reformed. Why not just let it roll out. If he is the Toxic/Cheater you seem to want to brand him it will surface again and Riot will deal with it.

Wickedfates1 votes

because why should any innocent person playing this game for fun have to be subjected to it over and over again, in riots attempt to reform this one player..... how many games did he ruin?

when do you stop giving chances to reform? if you never stop giving chances to reform, then why should the average toxic player ever reform.... they will simply be given yet another chance...

GibonGra2 votes

{quoted}

because why should any innocent person playing this game for fun have to be subjected to it over and over again, in riots attempt to reform this one player..... how many games did he ruin?

when do you stop giving chances to reform? if you never stop giving chances to reform, then why should the average toxic player ever reform.... they will simply be given yet another chance...

None. He's had no toxicity since they let him have accounts.

Wickedfates1 votes

no where does it say he has had no toxicity... it says

In-game, Jensen has shown a marked improvement in his behavior toward other players, exhibiting conduct that is in line with the normal standards of good behavior.

which i commend him for.... too little too late.... but then i think that is where our disagreement stems from yes?

i think there should be retribution... a permanent ban that is permanent.... you, correct me if i am wrong, believe in reformation... a person can always redeem themselves?

GibonGra2 votes

{quoted}

no where does it say he has had no toxicity... it says

which i commend him for.... too little too late.... but then i think that is where our disagreement stems from yes?

i think there should be retribution... a permanent ban that is permanent.... you, correct me if i am wrong, believe in reformation... a person can always redeem themselves?

http://na.lolesports.com/articles/2015-mid-year-long-term-suspension-reviews Not always no, but in this case it was a stupid teenager that grew up. He didn't do anything psychotic; he was a dick like a lot of kids are. You're too black and white, and make exaggerations like "years of toxicity" when it wasn't even one year. He hasn't been toxic since January 2014, and has in fact been a model player. He lost time and money investment on multiple accounts, and couldn't compete for 2.5 years, and considering he's changed, that's punishment enough.

Since his last review, Jensen has continued to demonstrate behavior in game that is well above the normal standards of good behavior across all of his accounts since at least January 2014. Additionally, according to our monitoring tools, he has not been implicated in any DDOS or Drophacking-related exploits since Q2 2013. There have been no serious offenses or violations of the letter or spirit of the Summoner Code since his account-sharing related offense in Q1 2014.

Remlap12237 votes

If he truly DDOS'd in League, I doubt skills had to do with him winning.

arcinex8 votes

{quoted}

Hey, I've been hearing a little about this, but haven't heard many details. Who exactly is this guy Incarnati0n, and what did he do?

He is a player who was supposedly "perma-banned" for extreme toxicity and ddosing in ranked solo q. He was recently unbanned and is replacing Hai as the mid-laner for Cloud 9.

junglerboy1614 votes

That makes me like C9 a whole lot less...

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