Why does Point&Click Crowd Control still exist?

Agidyne·Nov 30, 2014·4 votes·634 views

I find it so annoying that no matter what you do, you will eat some form of Crowd Control and you can do nothing about it.

Why can't every CC spell be like Ahris Charm?

Instead of being a "mouse over, press a key" thing.

Its even worse when the champions have some form of Gapcloser attached to it.

And before you ask, most shit I play is meele.

So this isn't an issue with thinking "zomg y shuld u b able to kill me as lucian? qq"

It's more of a "Why should Maokai be able to zone me with an undodgeable Root"

25 Comments

AmelieNov 30, 20145 votes

Because it's the only effective way to CC champions who are highly mobile and/or who can completely dodge skillshots due to the way their kit works.

AgidyneNov 30, 20141 votes

Malphite says otherwise.

AmelieNov 30, 20145 votes

Ok? Are we gonna list the tanks who can dodge CC? Hecarim too?

That doesn't negate the point. I was talking about champions like Master Yi, Zed, Katarina, etc... who can avoid skillshot CC and need to be locked down before they outright kill you.

AgidyneNov 30, 20141 votes

It's not about being able to dodge CC, it's about being able to lock down with easy to hit skillshots but dodgeable nontheless

It's not like you can't lock their down shit with Glacial Fissures, Solar Flares, Glacial Prisons or Unstoppable Forces.

That's the point. They are dodgeable. They are dodgeable, yet they have enough power to lock assassins down. Especially Glacial Fissure.

Yi can dodge your shit, he is an Assassin, he should be able to do it considering the moment he is locked down, he dies.

What I hate is when you are playing something like Garen top and you are forced to be really passive simply because you don't know where the enemy Jungler is and the moment Maokai jumps on you, you are as good as dead as you have no escape tools either.

That's the main issue.

And Garen isn't pretty mobile himself.

It's also really stupid when Brand can't hit your Draven for sh*t, but since he has a Bronze Crystal Scepter, he can just press E and make sure he hits all his spells.

And just like Garen, Draven is not very mobile himself.

AtheosisXNov 30, 20145 votes

All skill shots on all CC would be rather lame and would shift the power balance to mobility even more. Your idea is bad.

AgidyneNov 30, 20141 votes

So it's fine for shit like Warwick to just go near someone, press R and kill someone.

JevelFaithfulNov 30, 20143 votes

So it's fine for shit like Warwick to just go near someone, press R and kill someone.

You said it yourself :

Malphite says otherwise.

Malph can use an ult? Why not WW and Mal?

AgidyneNov 30, 20141 votes

Malphites ult can be dodged. Even if it requires faker level mechanics, it can be dodged.

Warwick's ult cannot. That's the problem.

JevelFaithfulNov 30, 20143 votes

Malphites ult can be dodged. Even if it requires faker level mechanics, it can be dodged.

Warwick's ult cannot. That's the problem.

WW can be zoned out (or killed because he just turned and fight in a 4v4 and he's in the middle of your team) and zoning doesn't requires faker level of mechanics..

QantèsNov 30, 20143 votes

WW right now is one of the cases where point and click cc is toxic, because of the new smite and the synergy it has with his ultimate but you can't take an exception to eliminate all this type of cc from every champion.

JevelFaithfulDec 3, 20141 votes

WW right now is one of the cases where point and click cc is toxic, because of the new smite and the synergy it has with his ultimate but you can't take an exception to eliminate all this type of cc from every champion.

Right, you have a point. But is the CC the problem? .considering it puts him in danger and is on a 70sec cd plus lategame (starts at 110). If the ultimate didn't have CC but was ranged, would it be better? You'd get the same damage, same range, etc. From what I get, it's not the CC as much as the 700 range (it's pretty big now that I check it) and the 5 free hits that are the problem. Becasue the damage and the vision are the only thing I can see that even influence the spell.

That might also explains why WW was rarely a problem before. From what I get, CC isn't the problem, the on-hit true damage+ult's free 5 hits are.

AgidyneNov 30, 20141 votes

When exactly did I say Zoning required faker level mechanics?

I said dodging a point blank Unstoppable Force is hard, but is possible.

And seriously, Warwick can be zoned out? What the fuck are you on? Warwicks base stats makes him naturally tanky, Smite R someone will instantly kill them.

He also builds Tank CDR anyway.

Rakan GarfieldNov 30, 20141 votes

Malphites ult can be dodged. Even if it requires faker level mechanics, it can be dodged.

Warwick's ult cannot. That's the problem.

Wait, so you're saying that ww should have an aoe suppress, as long as it's a skillshot?

Do you even consider the implications of what you are saying? I agree that hard targeted/aoe cc + massive damage on one champion is lame (fuck you Syndra ). Targeted cc should only exist on low damage supports and heavy tanks.

Oh, and also fizz can dodge ww ult.

AtheosisXDec 1, 20141 votes

With Challenging Smite being changed, the only way to press R and kill someone at full health is to be fed late game and for them to be squishy. And even then you need their team to not react and disrupt you. People who complain about this stuff kind of annoy me honestly. Positioning is part of the game. Warwick's R is relatively short-ranged. If you are an ADC it is your job to position yourself well to minimize the chances of getting hit with his ult. Skill shots on the other hand have much longer ranges generally, and in that case it's about dodging. In both cases you bare some of the responsibility when you get hit.

AgidyneDec 1, 20141 votes

rofl

So, I was top lane Garen with Boots and an Hexdrinker

Enemy Warwick approaches

I see him coming, I stay under my tower

Doesn't matter, he just flash smites R me and takes over 80% of my health with that aswell as the hexdrinker shield.

Rumble follows up with flamespitter and ignite and kills me.

"outplayed"

"just position yourself under your inner turret, noob"

"Warwick is balanced with his 60% win rate"

AtheosisXDec 1, 20141 votes

Err...derp? Did you not read "with Challenging Smite being changed"?

AgidyneDec 1, 20141 votes

I did

It's actually a quite stupid change considering no other user of the Challenging Smite is broken right now.

Just gut the wolf and leave the item alone.

QantèsNov 30, 20143 votes

Like the other guys have said, mobility is one of the best stats in the game and already counters skillshots really hard, if all the cc was skillshots people would just stack ms and use really mobile champs like Vayne, Kalista, Riven, etc... to dodge everything easily (try to hit an Udyr with 500-600ms with an Ahri charm).

The thing is Point and Click cc is only toxic when it's on an assasin or someone that can oneshot you without any counterplay like old Kassadin/LeBlanc/Talon or new Warwick.

JefftiffyDec 1, 20142 votes

Cause Yi/Fizz. Until they are easily hit, then it will always exist.

JevelFaithfulNov 30, 20141 votes

To answer your question, mostly from the old design (dota original) and before they got used to their technology. As to why they're still here? Because reworking 60 champions LONG.

League is based on a strategy game, play with some strategy.

TabsNov 30, 20141 votes

Kalista

SouL1essNov 30, 20141 votes

By your idea

If Talon's Cutthroat still had silence but it was changed to an instant AoE (150-250 in radius) silence with the same range but without the targeting

It would have been balanced?

Since it can be dodged if the opponent play it right, and it's a ground-based skillshot. Extremely fast, but dodgeable nonetheless.

MrSlowDieDec 1, 20141 votes

and how I supposed to counter high mobility then ??

CaptnJakSparrowDec 3, 20141 votes

IF this game revolved around all cc being skill shots . . . this game would be way too easy. On top of that, the entire meta would shift. Tryndamere in every game, along with Vayne, Yi jungle with Leona support and some random other champion. It would be League of high moving hyper carries.