Lower Base HP regeneration No longer gets ad from an ad ghost to help tear down towers. Creeping Death damage lowered (and ap ratio lowered)
But man, that 75 bonus range on q, slightly lower hp costs and my ally gets a shield that doesn't double damage. Too Stronk.
GanksLikeGast0n27 votesYeah, it really bothered me that they said they were compensating him, but cut his base health regen in half and nerfed the shield ratio without explanation. I really wish they would go into that a bit to explain. :/
GigglesO25 votesYeah, it really bothered me that they said they were compensating him, but cut his base health regen in half and nerfed the shield ratio without explanation. I really wish they would go into that a bit to explain. :/
Its kinda like all of the Veigar changes... We made him safer at farming so we nerfed everything else in his kit...
That really isn't a buff... that is a nerf and you are trying to hide it with a buff.
Hawkefire9 votesYeah, they made his base HP regen comparable to Rivens, his is literally only** 0.07** higher than Rivens 0.07. And unlike Riven, he doesn't have earlygame cheese, nor is his sustain nearly as easy to buy into (Riven can build rejuv beads at the start of the game which go towards her tiamat, and vamp scepter basically solves most of her sustain issues, whereas mord has to build a hextech to gain spellvamp, which is much more expensive than the cost of vamp scepter + 2 rejuv beads, and the sustain that hex provides is definitely not as strong as the sustain that a vamp scepter with 2 rejuv beads will provide). So basically, they made his earlygame even WORSE than before.
Before, it would take him 14.9 seconds to regen back to full health from using his Q once (barring masteries and runes, and also assuming to be at level 1), now it will take him 29.6 seconds. That is almost 15 seconds longer than it was before.
Here is the math:
NOTE All calculations are assuming mordekaiser is level 1, and is not using any form of health regen masteries or runes.
OLD: 8.37 / 5 = 1.675 health regen per second
25 / 1.675 = ~14.9 seconds to reach full health
NEW:
3.37 / 5 = 0.674 health regen per second
20 / 0.674 = ~29.8 seconds to reach full health
These costs are using the new values for his Q and W, not for his E which is generally his most used skill during the laning phase, which had its cost remain the same, which makes the base health regen nerf even WORSE. Then you have to consider the fact that not only does mords own spells hurt him, the enemy is bound to be hurting him as well, which he will have an even harder time recovering from.
Mordekaiser was nerfed heavily by these changes, and will require some pretty big buffs to have a hope at being competitive.
Caezium1 votesDouble Rejuv bead start currently would just double her HP/5. Which would still be lower than most champions. (6.68 would be kinda average, just above Orianna)
Longsword 3 pots is usually what I see works best on her.
However, her shield is free 100% of the time. His isn't. And lifesteal is cheaper than spellvamp. (800 vs. 1200)
Hawkefire1 votesDouble rejuv bead is a fairly common start for riven when she is dealing with a tougher matchup, and yes even with the double rejuv bead her HP/5 is less than the average base regen for most champions, it still provides her with a fairly decent form of sustain until she can back to get her vamp scepter and allows her to rush her tiamat fairly quickly as well.
Longsword works as well because then she can rush the vamp scepter, but generally I don't see Riven's doing that unless they are fairly confident that they can deal with their matchup.
Also, I did already mention that lifesteal was cheaper than spellvamp, I also pointed out that spell vamp is less effective than lifesteal as well (this is because most of mords spells are AoE, and also because of simply the way spell vamp works).
worldwar1 gunner1 votesyou can do the rejuv beads on morde to just have to build something like a warmongs
Hawkefire3 votesWarmogs is not really a good item (period really), simply because of how easy it is to counter (health shred is both easy to acquire and relatively cheap). It is also a terrible item on mordekaiser because mordekaiser needs to build damage, and if he wants to build health then he is probably going to get a rylais or liandries. He can build bruiser-ish, but none of the items that offer health regen are any good on mordekaiser. Also, with the changes to health regen, itemizing health regen for mordekaiser is even worse, as it provides him with even less return on investment.
worldwar1 gunner1 votesya I kind of just throw any reply as a comment away when people say warmongs is a bad item because you probably have never played a tank before
SunGold3 votesi would really if morde could W a enemy in a way that it would have a different effect on the enemy like: they take damage and their armor and magic resist are reduced, and you gain a MS boost while runing into a W enemy.
and maybe like a knock up on E when hi's sheild is in a certain level on the sheild bar
i would really love to see one this.
Rrett21 votesAs a top tier veigar player, I kind of understand the Gut on veigar, I had a 70% winrate with him after all, but I can't understand the morde one. That's just kicking a dog when it's down. That one made no sense to me.
That being said, riot said they'd be compensating veigar and Morde for the dfg removal and they massively gutted veigar and heavily nerfed morde.
I'm curious as to why the balance team is so detested by these two. Probably because they're not LC$ big players.
Auz the Ripper6 votesI'm pretty sure someone just gave them the wrong definition of "compensation"
Budupops16 votesriot gotta keep non lcs champs weak
agbudar15 votesFUK riot
really FUK them
im seriously enraged atm
all them fukin champs that use lichbane got fukin STRAIGHT BUFFS for losing damage on lichbane they can STILL buy it.
then DFG gets REMOVED ofcourse that ahri gets a fukin buff all the waifu mains would complain otherwise and arguably she is better off.
but NOOOOOOOOooOOO
nerf morde nerf Veigar
lets rub our shit into their faces instead.
mordekaiser glory days was a 1/100 of the toxic levels kalista instigates yet she gets a fukin slap on the wrist.
Zarokima14 votesI would much rather we get nothing to compensate for the DFG loss than this bullpoo.
Mordekaiser was already underpowered and in need of buffs. Then we lose DFG, and all reliability of actually getting a ghost from his ultimate is completely gone unless you save it for an execution. And now they're even directly nerfing him, despite being unpopular and underpowered.
Zero mobility, zero utility, melee, all damage, but that damage doesn't even measure up to safer mids with more utility. Better nerf him.
cFlame9 votesIts horrible, clearly Riot is gonna make Mordekaiser a worse version of Shen that can't cc enemies.
Major Sparkles3 votesI don't see the connection between mord and shen..
cFlame3 votesLol I made a very simple connection, the health regen ability Shen has on his Q and Mordekaiser building spell vamp. Also, Shen kills himself in the process of engaging with enemies (Taunt minions, and trade to... Lose an engage???) Mordekaiser kills himself too, in the process of using spells. Also both can have high shields for sustain, in the end though they have completely different roles and accomplish different things, or they are meant to do that. But of course, Riot over here isn't thinking very much.
Major Sparkles2 votesLol that's not a simple connection. Totally different kits for different things. Mord tele, nope. Mord built in heals, no. Mord built in sheild, sorta. Mord built in CC, nope. Yeah, that's a stretch bro.
Orbv3 votesIt is a stretch, but the shield is what Morde is known for.
You also forgot to mention that Morde built in dash that can go through terrain? nope
Major Sparkles1 votesOh yeah, how did I forget THAT!
Sarchiapon7 votesLOL they nerfed a champ with NO mobility and NO hard CC at all :D. And in the era in which almost every new champ got Hard CC and mobility in spades :D.
Really, i though i would never saw another patch as horrendous as 4.10. But this one come really close.
Jungle Lux God6 votesThe AD from an AD ghost won't really help push towers because 40% of Mordekaiser's AP will almost always be greater than any AD he gets, even when including the ghost, especially when you consider that he builds primarily AP anyway.
I also feel like the "magnet" mechanic is a slight buff, and the flat amount of AD that the ghost gets and the extra health from the ghost are pretty cool too.
That said, I feel like these changes would have been perfect if Mordekaiser kept the changes he had on the PBE, where he traded some damage for a dramatic increase in shield gain, but right now these changes don't really seem to help much. I'd have to test them to be sure, but I think this might be closer to a net neutral change rather than a net nerf, but it probably is a nerf.
GigglesO1 votesThe AD from an AD ghost won't really help push towers because 40% of Mordekaiser's AP will almost always be greater than any AD he gets
They are moving him towards tank bruiser... so I'll have to say this is false.
Also Rip ad Morde with 600 damage tank Rammus ghosts.
Jungle Lux God2 votesThey are moving him to a bruiser, but any changes to complete that move weren't really added in 5.4.
Right now he still feels a lot more like a mage.
Orbv1 votesI like the magnet idea, but presently it works if both are running towards each other, if they are going in different directions or side by then it's glitchy if the boost permits or not, I need to retry. Right now it's only good for running away because it doesn't have the range to help mordekaiser initiate a gank.
terkmc6 votesWish they would have went with the %max health rework just for the fuck of it for one patch to see how it goes
ragdollomega1 votesPeople already tried it in PBE. It was a nerf all around. He was literally worse at everything for it. Even tankyness, which is what they were poorly attempting to force on him. At least Rito listened to the Mordekaiser crowd, as opposed to the poor Veigar players :(
terkmc1 votesWait what if we did both things at once, have his max shield scale of % max health and let his abiltiy scale like normal again, filling shield by damage amount. Although if that happens a Rylai Visage AP Brusier Morde would be nigh unstoppable
WutsKraken5 votesFirst I was like...meh...
Then I saw the real numbers on Morde and I was like -_______________-
The combined with Veigar and Kassadin I threw a chair
Maybe I'm overreacting, but 2 guts and a nerf on an already fairly meh champ just really piss me off
Auryiel4 votesNerfing his health regen or creeping death damage makes no fucking sense whatsoever
SoberToaster4 votesYep. REALLY don't understand the decision to completely gut his HP regen. but this is what riot does it seems. they never just tweak numbers they completely decimate them. really a whopping 5 decrease. wow. they didn't just HALVE it, it's LOWER then halved. makes sense. because mords HP regen was always such a problem wasn't it....
I guess I shouldn't talk this soon, it depends how his shield is reworked too. but I was really dissapointed to see that hp regen nerf. back in the old days I could buy a regrowth, that was removed, removed FON, there basically is no hp regen items anymore so I guess i'm going hp regen quints but i doubt that will even save him.
again i guess it depends how his shield would work.
Partholonian1 votesthere basically is no hp regen items anymore so I guess i'm going hp regen quints but i doubt that will even save him.
Wouldn't matter if there were, with the way they work now, if you have low base regen (of either health or mana), items won't help because they're % based.
I understand the desire to make regen items relevant later in the game, but couldn't they have given them per level scaling instead? The percentage system means that low base mana regen (or for healthcasters like Morde, health regen) is a problem that can't be solved by itemization.
Or, at least, if a champion isn't going to be able to use their skills often regardless of what items they build, they're going to have to be really high impact when they do use them -- which would bring him right back to being a beast in an all in if the enemy doesn't use their mobility skills to run like hell.
exelsis xax3 votesThe only good thing about this is that riot might actually be forced to fix him now. The playerbase LOATHES bandaids even more than champs being completely useless(remember eve and twitch, anyone?). They might actually realize that the current state of CotG is motherruning retardedly overpowered, nerf it and give him some actual stats. They're lowering him to 4th lowest health regen. The only ones lower are riven, gnar, and raka - all of which have utility up the butts and no health costs. Someone over at the office might actually realize that having an ability as gamebreaking as CotG is the problem, not the shield.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesThey're probably just waiting until their other rework projects have finished before they get to Morde, he's likely seen as being as big a project as Sion was considering their feelings on his character and the apparent "mismatch" of his abilities.
bumbertyr3 voteswhen riot means compensating they mean nerf hammer.
2xHero3 votesThe HP regen nerf is going way too far. The other champions that use HP to cast abilities have higher base health regen than this AND they have built-in healing mechanics.
6.6 HP per 5
7.8 HP per 5
7.0 HP per 5
7.0 HP per 5
Do you really think it is drop Mordekaiser's health regen this much? This puts him at the health regen level of champions with FREE spells. On top of that, Riven has a shield that can block a lot of damage from trades, and Rengar has a built-in heal.
3.34
4.27
Mordekaiser's shield is not comparable to Riven's because he has to constantly spend HP to keep it up. Early game, where HP regen is most valuable, Mordekaiser will definitely not be able to afford this with the HP regen nerfs.
Awoof2 votesI would have undertstood the regen nerf if they shippd that his shield doesn't decay while in combat. Don't really know what these changes are supposed to accomplish now.
j j2 votesThough how does the shield work? If ally shield also damages targets not around mord that is generating more shield though that would be crap during lane phase. Yeah, I saw his hp nerf and was like da fk they thinking LOL?
Partholonian1 votes[{quoted}](name=j j,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZRlh7isM,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-02-25T13:55:32.980+0000)
If ally shield also damages targets not around mord that is generating more shield though that would be crap during lane phase.
Can you shield a minion and still get the shield on yourself? That seems like it would let you damage more things and get more shield (even though you don't do extra damage if both zones overlap).
Poorly Dressed2 votesCan you shield a minion and still get the shield on yourself? That seems like it would let you damage more things and get more shield (even though you don't do extra damage if both zones overlap).
Yeah that works - if you shield a minion that is behind you, you can even use it as movespeed buff to escape - but the movespeed boost is nothing to write home about ;)
urgotdangit1 votesMore pushing power is exactly what Morde needs. Am I right or am I right? Or am I right?
j j2 votesIn a sense it could help him generate more shield but it would be rather weak during lane as minions die really quick, so I can't see the reason for his regeneration being decreased. There is nothing in his kit that justifies that. He doesn't seem that much stronger if anything this gutted his potential in lane, which was already weak.
AkabaneKun2 votesRiot needs to look what compensation means, they lost dfg and instead of directly buffing the dmg from both, they like always tried to "rework" them into a "healthier" state.
GypsiEater2 votesI just started playing morde. about a week ago and found him fairly boring. Nonetheless I wanted to try and see what his ultimate was all about........ Took me a while, until I figured it really helps in team fights (sort of) that is until you die, which you always will because you're a squishy character and you don't have range. Basically you're a mage that has to stay close.......???? So you're always the target, basically leading to his ultimate being pretty useless. His early farming was fine but had to potion up due to his health falling really low at times. After these changes in the patch, Mord still faces an identity crisis, as he's still a mage (now with almost no health regen) that has to be in the middle of the fight, which really makes him pair with few characters. I will echo what everyone else is saying in hopes that he gets buffed a bit and not nerfed, why make a weak character even more weak. Expect his play rate to drop.....a lot (he kind of reminds of dr mundo without the health regen.......making him a useless character overall)
pHmNeJOOZq2 votesI hope I get a chance to meet these guys at GDC. Sit down and have a nice long conversation...
Baron of Bread2 votesAt least they didn't go through with the full changes they originally planned.
Bob the bomber1 votesIt would have been better if they released the new AP item before nerfing the heck out of these two...
urgotdangit1 votesI don't grasp the "we're making him more tanky by making him do less damage" concept.
worldwar1 gunner1 votesMorde being such an easy champ to beat I think the bonus ad is pointless because if you have the "ghost or whatever you want to call it" you can take the tower just as easy. I love the bonus range however so many times do I cast it but lack the range to hit him or my attack speed does not match my cast speed. The base hp regen kind of hurts but then you need to keep sustain with build health regen or spellvamp/lifesteal which is how people build him anyway unless you want to bomb lane.