golem vs red, krog vs blue

Shro0mie·Jan 2, 2015·1 votes·1,335 views

I see the pros going krog but except in many rare circumstances I find red/blue buff better everytime. Maybe it's cause I'm in low elo but my reasoning is

My leash is unpredictable, and I would rather have the support take extra damage on buff camp that leaves me at lower health otherwise so I can confidently move on to next camp with more health.
If leash stays to long I'm still lvl 1 for buff camp, and my smite is used so takings it down is super hard solo.
Leaves me with lower health more pruned to counter jungled, and the stun/poison buff isn't all that great unless I'm a tank/eve (and as eve I NEED the extra health and damage on red, that is true damage so ignores armor leaving me with even more health) to clear 3 camps for back.

Am I missing something here? What's the reason the pros start differently?

8 Comments

Jenova SynthesisJan 2, 20151 votes

I've been jungling for quite a while now, and I started maining it after the new jungle rework. In my personal experience, starting Gromp is not very efficient unless you're someone like Rammus or Fiddlesticks, who's not going to take much damage. I never start on the blue side.

I've also found that almost every jungler is extremely efficient starting Krugs, for the stun every few attacks. That is unbelievably useful on almost everyone, including Mana hungry champions like Skarner and Warwick. Even with more spell-oriented junglers, like Lee Sin, I start Krugs and I have always gotten through my first clear with enough health to gank more than twice.

Starting a smaller camp is going to leave you smiteless for the first big camp, but having the buff from the small camps is very useful because it last long enough to get you all the way through your first clear. Skarner is usually my go-to jungler, and I almost always have 13-17 left on smite when I get to blue. (That's actually a very quick clear time) and I walk out of my jungle with 4/5 health left.

Jungle Path: (Smite) Krugs - Red - (Smite) Blue - Gank Twice

Astral ZephyroroJan 2, 20151 votes

Xin Zhao is also pretty awesome for the new jungle, with his Attack speed steroids starting kruggs is definitely the smartest thing to do, you clear red with decent enough health that you can still clear and get a decent gank or two in before you have to head back. If you do not have jungle runes he suffers a bit to much for a gank before first back in my opinion.

azrolatorJan 3, 20151 votes

I use xin jungle a lot. With AS runes the stun from starting on kruggs makes a big difference. Sometimes i get leash or I don't. If I don't then i will probably eat a biscuit on red, then smite those birds cause they hurt. But still once you get them down to a couple the health goes up and I look to see if mid is gankable and if not then move to blue side. If you don't gank then you will certainly still have the health to finish blue side then look at top and mid again for ganks. And I make sure I tank. No one else has a weapon that heals for hitting jungle camps.

Dr Clueless PhDJan 2, 20151 votes

You're severely undervaluing the stun and poison.

Shro0mieJan 2, 20151 votes

Eh I mostly play rek, elise, eve, vi, fidd (here I start poison), and nocturne, where the stun/poison doesn't seem to help that much

MelloriJan 3, 20151 votes

I don't jungle, I mostly play support (so I do a fair share of leashing) but just suggesting something to change your mindset might help you out here.

Why are you making the support tank the buff? No jungler, good or bad, that I've ever met has done that. Ever. That just seems like it's not something you do. In a way it's selfish to your ADC, for the most part, making their lane partner be at half health and possibly end up feeding first blood because they were low, whereas you're going to be in jungle and at worst die to a minion who won't feed anyone. I just feel like that statement is wrong. Which brings me straight into what I'll say for your point number 3, but that comes later. Read 3 right after this if you want.
From what I've seen (granted, I've never played jungle ever, so no quoting me on this) junglers I've leashed for that start buff go something like this: Attack down to around 300. Ping for bot lane to fall back (or top, depending side) Smite You can't really complain that your leash stays too long when there ARE fallback pings and most people will listen. Unless they're buff-greedy trolls, which is rare even among toxic players, they WILL leave if you ping them to. Hell, most top/bot laners know about the time to leave and will go on their own. I wait until about 350 health on the buff monster to leave, unless I'm pinged earlier than that. Not once have I taken any share of XP on one leaving that early.
Since I DO play support, I know when I leash, if I'm playing someone like Nami, Sona, Soraka who have heals I'll use one on the jungler right before I leave to go to lane. With what I said in number 1, in all honesty it's better for YOU to tank your own buff and get a heal from your support so they're only missing a little mana, not half their health. On the other hand if I'm playing someone like Lux, Morgana, Nami who have an ability that keeps the buff monster from attacking for a few seconds, I'll use it. It keeps a few hits off our jungler to make up for the fact that I have no heals.

Astral ZephyroroJan 3, 20151 votes

I didnt focus to much on AS, I have a kind of generic rune page mostly for ArmPen for the extra champ damage since he kicks ass in the new jungle. Have you tried Pantheon jung lately? Hes been my favorite to jungle with for the longest time (started before the drag exploit) but at the moment he just seems to eat to much damage to get that hot start. Any suggestions for runes and masteries for him?

Shro0mieJan 3, 20151 votes

Not a xin or pantheon player, not really my style. And when I say tank in talking about ranks champs like Braun/taric who can't take 2 hits and basically have the health fully regenerating by the time they get in lane, at which point I start tanking. This doesn't sound like much, but when you consider the health/armor of someone like eve/Diana, it can be a lot

And Ive been using standard rune pages til I can buy more, which for ad is as quints, yellow armor, red as, and blue mr, ap is the same except apen quints and ap reds, except for certain aps like fizz where I run hybrid pen quints and a up an extra 5% CDR in my blues.

All of thn work great in the jungle, usually I play ap eve or hybrid sometimes but I'm thinking maybe running my ad rune page For the as with hybrid mastered, idk, good idea?

I kno most pros are playing off tank ad eve, but I usually like to get 2ish damage items for randuinns just cause it's bronze and I like to be able too i competently rek teams