Riot Can You Make Jungle Difficulty Scale With SUMMONER Level?

Mandaari·Feb 2, 2016·10 votes·1,236 views

New player experience is especially abysmal for junglers. You don't get smite until level 10 (which means no jungle item) and you don't get masteries or runes. Unless you're playing a really strong jungler or get a godly leash (keeping in mind new player game knowledge) you're probably going to have some serious issues and be at a huge disadvantage to laners. Even then you're going to have a really hard time.

Make Smite available at summoner level 1. Period. There's no reason to screw over new junglers that hard.
Grant players damage on hit against neutral monsters that scales inversely with summoner level.
Grant players damage reduction against neutral monsters that scales inversely with summoner level.

16 Comments

NotClarkolasFeb 3, 20166 votes

This is Riot's philosophy when it comes to new players jungling:

New players do not need to learn about the jungle because they don't even know the basics of the game yet. 10 Levels is barely enough to learn laning phase, and adding jungle to the mix so early on (with ganks, blue buff, farming, different builds, etc.) is just too much for new players and is unnecessary. It's better to have the players learn about turret damage, csing, and lane matchups than have to worry about the jungler ganking them if they make a misstep.

Again, this is Riot's philosophy not mine so don't bitch at me about how it's unfair or dumb.

JcrcmiahFeb 2, 20165 votes

Spaghetti code shall not allow this.

MandaariFeb 2, 20161 votes

1 is easy AF. Would probably take them 5 minutes + shipping time. The info for #2 and #3 are available in their public API. Should also be easy AF.

coeurloyalFeb 2, 20161 votes

I don't agree with allowing level 1 players to enter the jungle immediately; they need to have some innate knowledge of how the lanes work before they can try to influence them. If they are truly new players, the only way they're going to receive that understanding is to spend some time laning. As it is, it takes less than 30 games to hit level 10, anyway.

I think the jungle buffs should happen, though. They should at least be granted some flat armor and attack speed to make up for what they miss in runes, plus maybe some extra regen to help them survive until they gain access to tier 3 runes.

MandaariFeb 2, 20161 votes

Maybe not level 1, but waiting until level 10 for it to be remotely viable is way too much.

coeurloyalFeb 3, 20162 votes

We'll have to agree to disagree here; I still see players over level 10 building AD Nunu and buying two pairs of boots, and last hitting is virtually nonexistant. Those players are absolutely unprepared for jungling.

MandaariFeb 3, 20161 votes

buying two pairs of boots

No you don't.

There are plenty of players who come into the game to play with a friend or pick the game up a lot faster. For brand new players who haven't learned a thing about MOBAs you can argue that they should only be exposed to a small portion of the game (which I disagree with). That doesn't mean everybody should be slowed down.

Also keep in mind that lower level matchmaking can wildly differ in the summoner level of matched players. If you're level 9 and matched against a level 10 then they have smite and you don't. Not exactly a fun learning experience.

coeurloyalFeb 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No you don't.

Yes, yes I do. I had friends that had just started playing and I had to explain both of those situations to each of them, respectively. Both were over level 10. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me incorrect.

I realize that matchmaking in low levels varies wildly, but that doesn't really matter imo because skill level varies wildly until you hit mid-silver ranked ladders. It all depends on how much coaching a player has received up to that point and how much applicable MOBA experience they have coming in. League is by far the largest platform though, and therefore more than likely has the largest share of players that are new to the genre.

It would take quite a bit to convince me that a true newcomer to the game at level 10 will be able to utilize smite any better than a player at level 9. The skill disparity is a non-factor because there is very little tangible skill to be found in brand new players.

MandaariFeb 3, 20161 votes

You can no longer buy two pairs of boots. That's not an issue anymore.

You don't need to know about timing smite to steal buffs or anything. The fact is that a jungler with smite gets a free 390+true damage in addition to the camp buffs. And higher level junglers get passive stats from runes and masteries. By making it summoner level based you'd effectively just be weaning junglers onto using the correct runes and masteries instead of dumping it on them all at once.

coeurloyalFeb 3, 20161 votes

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. Most players at that level aren't even running PvP games; most of them are playing bots. In fact, iirc they aren't even given that option until they're a few levels deep. Most at that level are playing duo top lanes if they even understand lane roles in the first place.

The only reason I can see any need for this is for those that are smurfing, but I don't see any need to make concessions for those people because smurfing isn't technically allowed in the first place. I agree that they need help with stats, but they don't need an earlier entry point.

MandaariFeb 4, 20161 votes

And what of people playing with friends? Or people playing bots who want to jungle? And level 10 is the bare minimum of being able to jungle somewhat efficiently. It still isn't very viable.

coeurloyalFeb 4, 20161 votes

Again, I don't think most of those players are even aware that jungling exists at that level unless they've been coached, in which case that learning was still unnecessary to me. If you really want to complain about new players getting screwed over, start asking to have flash enabled at level 1. There's a huge power disparity between those that have a free escape and those that do not.

Athenes LuluFeb 2, 20161 votes

Or might as well make leveling up not a complete grind. This isn't a goddamn MMORPG.

Rabbid999Feb 3, 20161 votes

Thats never gonna happen

AbusingMyRightsFeb 3, 20161 votes

Tips for jungle mains pre-level 10... Get very familiar with Nunu Warwick . Who needs smite? Nunu even gets unique buffs like smite does on his Q.

A LiberalFeb 19, 20161 votes

Or they could just make the jungle easier and get rid of masteries and runes, or rework and consolidate them so that they are available to everyone from level 1. You know, since they are basically required to play the game properly.