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I think we've detracted pretty far from way support itemization was supposed to work.

Bârd··5 votes·2,145 views

S2

Supports are item independant champions.

All they really need are boots, so they dedicate the rest of their income to utility items for the team (Sight wards, VIsion wards, Oracles Elixir).

They purchase 1-2 gold income items so they can afford more vision than the other support.

S3

Supports now have sightstone, so they need not spend their entire income on wards anymore. Several cheap utility items were added (Runic Bulwhark, Shard of True Ice

They're still item independent champions who spend a lot of money on wards, but now they can afford a couple cheap team utility items.

S4

Wards are capped per champion, GPM items are overhauled, Oracles is gone, vision wards are permanent, and trinkets are a thing.

Several cheap utility items now build directly out of your GPM item.

Supports can't spend their entire income on vision now, so they now have gold to spend on real items, but they still have low income.

Zyra and Brand start appearing in botlane at this point.

S6

Wards removed from the shop.

Supports are solidified as just building regular items instead of buying tons of things for the team.

The Zyra/Brand type of support is no longer troll, it's just normal.

S7

Quests added to support items, making them dangerous as hell.

S8

Sightstone removed.

Supports now only need to invest 850 gold or so into their role, plus 75 here and there for control wards, and then can build anything.

S10

You no longer need to spend any gold upgrading your GPM item.

Your role only requires 400 gold to be spent on supporting, before control wards.

It eventually becomes an item with roughly 2k gold in stats for only 350 gold, plus a warding active

We've gone from "low income, item independant champions who spend most of their income buying things needed for the team" to "medium income champions with a massively efficient 400 gold stat stick".

20 Comments

ZephyrDrake9 votes

You mean we went from "people hating playing this role since their impact is so rarely felt" to "you don't have to spend all your gold on things that aren't really relevant to the champion you are playing as"? Literally playing support in the early seasons was horrendous. Literally nothing more than a ward bot and most people did not care about the role.

Support itemization is still about providing team utility but at the same time providing some form of actual power to supports that are weaker in terms of raw power to items of other roles.

ProfDrDeath4 votes

cheap utility items [...] Runic Bulwark

3200 gold is a cheap item now? There's a reason that thing was built on junglers back then and not on supports.

The new support items are actually going to be less effective than the current items, since they lose their non-gold-generating bonus effects. Meaning, no extra damage on Spellthief's procs, no healing on Targon's charges and no mana sustain from coins.

Bârd3 votes

It doesn't really matter, since you're exchanging that for an absolute shitload of stats for basically nothing.

Sure, your Frostfang doesn't give on-hit damage. Instead, you have a ton of spare money you can use to buy damage.

Targons healing will be missed, though.

Moody P4 votes

Adding scaling to supports and making several supports into borderline hypercarries themselves (Sona, Taric) was one of Riots biggest blunders.

Ηuawei4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJhTbaai,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-31T22:27:16.299+0000)

Adding scaling to supports and making several supports into borderline hypercarries themselves (Sona, Taric) was one of Riots biggest blunders.

It was Riot's best decision to add scaling to support. Do you want to play a bland gold generating champion that the only thing they do is buy wards?

Seriously no.

And thats why the role was so unpopular back in the day. Because only hardcore people who just liked the idea of supporting and could live with the bs that was itemization and no-scaling could play it

Moody P1 votes

All of the popular supports besides Pyke are playmakers whose kits are highly effective regardless of their gold income

All of the scaling supports (i e enchanters) are garbage and nobody wants to play them no matter how strong they are

ZephyrDrake3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJhTbaai,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T02:20:39.384+0000)

All of the popular supports besides Pyke are playmakers whose kits are highly effective regardless of their gold income

All of the scaling supports (i e enchanters) are garbage and nobody wants to play them no matter how strong they are

Except that you are wrong. Look at the playrates of supports and tell me where enchanters fall. Don't come here spewing your own personal bias like It's a fact

Ηuawei2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJhTbaai,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T02:20:39.384+0000)

All of the popular supports besides Pyke are playmakers whose kits are highly effective regardless of their gold income

All of the scaling supports (i e enchanters) are garbage and nobody wants to play them no matter how strong they are

What are the popular supports that are "playmakers" exactly?

All champions in league scale. There is literally no champion at the moment that doesn't scale. Leona scales, Zyra scales, and pretty much every LoL champion scales

Pika Fox4 votes

So, basically, exactly as intended? Its not fun nor interesting playing a role that doesnt have any build depth whatsoever.

Bârd1 votes

If the average support is a Janna with Mobis, Wards, Oracles Elixir, and Mana Manipulator at 30 minutes, we've got a problem.

If the average support is literally just a full mage/tank/assassin/carry build, that isn't any better.

You need it somewhere in between. Supports shouldn't be completely broke, but they should remain as item independant champions.

If you want to do damage as Zyra, you should have to take her mid. If you're taking her as a support, she should provide a little bit of damage and a lot of disengage.

Ηuawei3 votes

{quoted}

If the average support is a Janna with Mobis, Wards, Oracles Elixir, and Mana Manipulator at 30 minutes, we've got a problem.

If the average support is literally just a full mage/tank/assassin/carry build, that isn't any better.

You need it somewhere in between. Supports shouldn't be completely broke, but they should remain as item independant champions.

If you want to do damage as Zyra, you should have to take her mid. If you're taking her as a support, she should provide a little bit of damage and a lot of disengage.

Supporting doesn't mean "Ward Slave with philosopher's stone"

It means having the tools in your kit to support your team.

If someone wants to pick a burst apc instead of a support champion to play in the support role that's their predicament as long as damage doesn't outscale utility like Season 8 and Season 9 to a point have demonstrated.

if you pick brand for support your team should lack appropriate CC and engage and shields, heals and instead gain even more damage. Theres a tradeoff here.

As long as damage is not the end of everything then brand, lux w/e are viable choices that should exist

Pika Fox1 votes

{quoted}

If the average support is a Janna with Mobis, Wards, Oracles Elixir, and Mana Manipulator at 30 minutes, we've got a problem.

If the average support is literally just a full mage/tank/assassin/carry build, that isn't any better.

You need it somewhere in between. Supports shouldn't be completely broke, but they should remain as item independant champions.

If you want to do damage as Zyra, you should have to take her mid. If you're taking her as a support, she should provide a little bit of damage and a lot of disengage.

OR, now hear me out, we recognize that LoL is based off a mod for an older game and recognize that it has flaws at its core as such, such as 5 champions but only 4 sources of map income, so we either need a map revamp or another way to add a full 5th gold generation income. Support items SHOULD enable full income.

Ηuawei4 votes

As a support main who saw all the changes you're describing, supporting in the old days was mostly unfun and a pain. You just bought heart of gold and philo stone all games and generated gold to buy wards.

0 itemization, 0 interesting builds.

If i didn't enjoy supporting i wouldn't even touch the role at those seasons and thats why the role was so unpopular back then.

Bârd1 votes

I've been a support main since season 3, and I continue playing this version of support in Dota.

The item builds aren't terribly interesting, but that's mostly just down to League having absolutely terrible items.

Ηuawei3 votes

{quoted}

I've been a support main since season 3, and I continue playing this version of support in Dota.

The item builds aren't terribly interesting, but that's mostly just down to League having absolutely terrible items.

Good for you. But your agenda and likes do not exactly align with all support mains in League.

Why can't you just accept that "Going full damage without utility" should be an option in a game? It should not outscale CC and tankiness that a support tank brings or an enchanter but "another gimped apc in support role" should be an option IF a team wants to go that way.

Bârd1 votes

If you want to go full damage with no utility, go mid.

If you want to do that from the support role, that should be an off-meta cheese pick.

As things stand, not only is it not off-meta, it's a goddamn staple.

According to lolalytics, AP Shaco is an S- tier support, and Zyra, Swain, Vel'koz, and Xerath are A tier as supports.

It'd be one thing if they were being picked as supports because they had some hidden potential as low income picks, but that's not why this is happening. They're just making that much money.

Jinzo Torrance3 votes

Supports should go back to be a walking bag of 300 gold

Ηuawei3 votes

The OP should play support if Riot decides to revert.

I'll make him buy all the useless gold generating items like philosopher's stone and heart of gold and i'll play ADC to feel well.

Lost R2 votes

Well, you know, this is what fucking happens when you force the supports to do every single fucking goddamn thing, including the one thing you have dedicated your entire existence towards.

dolce de leche1 votes

I think that s7 was the best time for supports. Quests+sightstone build paths gave players choice and incentive to play to their support item's strength. Sure it's more item dependent than earlier seasons used to be, but at least it's interesting item dependence. Now it's just "oh we removed all the other options and made this one option stronger because the other ones already weren't optimal". Mind you this in itself makes no sense but even more than making no sense I just thing it takes away from the actual thought being a support player takes and the choices you can make.

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