I'm pretty good on Leona as supp, but in the last few days I've lost more than Im used to. If I were to record a match and post it to my Youtube channel, would you guys be willing to give me your feedback on what I'm doing right or wrong and suggestions on what I can do to make better plays?
Zackattack3 votesHey, I'm a diamond 2 Leona main myself. I was #1 Leona NA on Lolskill.net. I stream often and would be happy to give you feedback on your games. I could even live stream it so you can watch. let me know.
BurstDmg1 votesHey, I'm a diamond 2 Leona main myself. I was #1 Leona NA on Lolskill.net. I stream often and would be happy to give you feedback on your games. I could even live stream it so you can watch. let me know.
That would be awesome! One pronblem may be that I work Midnight until 8:30am, so we'll have to figure out a good time so that I can watch your stream....Much appreciated!!!
Zackattack1 votessure thing. add me in game: Zackattack
S H A Y C 01 votesWhat one guy did for me was watch the recording and stream the coaching on twitch and record the vod so i could watch it later and more than once. Then he sent me all the notes he took for me with timestamps to the video, that way he didnt need to sync up with me, it actually worked really well. then i just asked him questions if i didnt understand via email and chat.
BurstDmg1 votessure thing. add me in game: Zackattack
Thanks.,..sending an invite now! Can't wait to watch you on Leona and get a feel for how she should be played
Zackattack2 votesOk great, I am going away for about 5-6 days so I will return on Wednesday next week. I will add you in the next day or so, maybe we can have a chat
BurstDmg1 votesOk great, I am going away for about 5-6 days so I will return on Wednesday next week. I will add you in the next day or so, maybe we can have a chat
that sounds great! Everyone so far has been really helpful, and I appreciate the constructive criticism rather than people just flaming me....I'll ttys and enjoy your 5-6 day vacation( if thats what youre doing )
alasarcher2 votesIn s5 i had 100% winrate with Leona. In normals i think i never lost with Leona. Last few games i played Leona i got obliterated. Dunno why xD
BurstDmg1 votesMost of the games Ive been losing I don't think I've played poorly, although I do make mistakes and have bad games....but I cant figure out if Im doing poorly because Im playing poorly, or because the feeding my teammates did made me squishy as a tank. Im converting my last match to a smaller video file to upload to Youtube as we speak, and I'll post the link a little latere...any feedback would be appreciated!
BurstDmg1 votesOk, here is a game this morning that we lost...plz give me any feedback that you think would help. Also, read the description because I think its important. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1V_ot0m_38&feature=youtu.be
BurstDmg1 votesIm converting another Leona loss where I feel like I played well and still we lost...I'll post it hee when its done uploading....your feedback, no matteer how dcritical it is, is very much appreciated...I just want to get out of bronze
l Helios l1 votesStill watching but first impressions:
Lawd you type slow xD
You're invade on Nunu shouldn't have worked. IDK why their bot lane, or even just Sona, didn't immediately collapse on you. Granted they didn't know you had no flash, but if they did collapse you were almost certainly dead. You blew his flash though, which is good.
Your invade did leave Sivir highly vulnerable to the poke that an MF/Sona lane is capable of, which isn't exactly your fault outside of just not being there. Sivir ought to have know to hang back a bit to not take a lot of damage. You also lost a lot of XP for that invade, so you were behind in levels, so you couldn't respond to fights too well outside of 1 stun.
You should've never called out sivir when she died. That just ruins the atmosphere of the lane.
A little further in:
You seem to be like hyper aggressive, which works sometimes. However, a lot of that is the disrespect from the other laners. Also, you and sivir had 0 coordination whatsoever. Almost every time you engaged, she was oom or too far away to engage immediately. The tower dive was too much, primarily because you were sub 30% hp and no ult. Plus sivir was still oom.
BurstDmg1 votesStill watching but first impressions:
Lawd you type slow xD
You're invade on Nunu shouldn't have worked. IDK why their bot lane, or even just Sona, didn't immediately collapse on you. Granted they didn't know you had no flash, but if they did collapse you were almost certainly dead. You blew his flash though, which is good.
Your invade did leave Sivir highly vulnerable to the poke that an MF/Sona lane is capable of, which isn't exactly your fault outside of just not being there. Sivir ought to have know to hang back a bit to not take a lot of damage. You also lost a lot of XP for that invade, so you were behind in levels, so you couldn't respond to fights too well outside of 1 stun.
You should've never called out sivir when she died. That just ruins the atmosphere of the lane.
A little further in:
You seem to be like hyper aggressive, which works sometimes. However, a lot of that is the disrespect from the other laners. Also, you and sivir had 0 coordination whatsoever. Almost every time you engaged, she was oom or too far away to engage immediately. The tower dive was too much, primarily because you were sub 30% hp and no ult. Plus sivir was still oom.
The irony is, I dont believe in invading...I think its dumb to risk feeding the other team before the match really has started....but in that match I had a gut feeling, but Sivir wasnt joining me....so I figured I would just ward their blue. When I saw Nunu alone I knew he'd be taking damage from the golems and that I might be able to steal blue and/or kill him. I'm also surprised that their bot team didnt come to Nunu's aid, and that Sivir didnt come either. You're right....I shouldnt have called out Sivir...it could only lead to tension. I'll try to be more conscientious of that in the future.
I always thought Leona should be played rather aggressively, and like how we can control the flow in bot lane when my ADC is on the same page as me...but recently my ADC's havent been on the same page as me. So, do you think I'm overly aggressive, or do you think that it was a matter of me an Sivir not being on the same page and that I should have adjuested my play style to hers? Let me know your thought so I can improve.
l Helios l1 votesA lot of understanding each other comes from champion knowledge in addition to a mindset that players share as they become experienced. If 2 players see an enemy champion coming towards them, they will both know they can jump them in the jungle. It's just an innate understanding of how things work. Bot lane is no different. If you see an opportunity to engage and your carry is within good distance, ping the target so you both are on the same page, then eff some people up. You develop an innate understanding of what people can and can't do; same thing for the Champions.
Lovely Pants1 votesHey dude. Just happened to be passing by and I had some time to kill. I don't tend to play this game in long enough spurts to get consistently good, so Silver 1 is the highest claim to fame I have, but I am a support main and I make plenty of mistakes myself! thought I might look in and see if there was anything obvious that stuck out at me about your play.
By no means were you the only force that lost your team this game, but there were some definite decisions you made that contribute to your loss. I'd like to direct your attention to a few times on that video of yours where I jotted down where I think some of your issues are easiest to see.
10:50 So, most of the early game you go pretty gung ho against the enemy lane and it pays off, I'd argue partially because Miss Fortune is not exercising the most respect for your burst and reach with her positioning. However, you don't really seem to be on the same page with your ADC throughout all of this and if it weren't for you basically stat checking the enemy lane in the hard engage area and them not understanding how to respond to that I think you would see several more early deaths. You do occasionally take a lot of damage for trading by yourself without much benefit.
Right here is a point when you take a clearly unnecessary risk and it does not pay off. Sivir does not have much mana left to support your decision and her disinclination to get herself close to that danger zone that she has shown all game manifests itself again. She's not even paying attention to you dying, in fact. She's just attacking the tower. Certainly Sivir's tunnel vision means you don't even get a kill trade off of your dive, but you were dead anyways. Both of you being unable to react to each other's intentions gradually turn what should have been a shut-out lane into another breath of air for Miss Fortune to crawl back into the fight.
18:00 Completely avoidable death. Overconfident that you can still handle Miss Fortune's damage at that stage of the game, perhaps. There was really no reason for you to be setting up for her past a pushed lane as you have nobody nearby that could capitalize from your engage and you had already taken a fair bit of poke damage.
24:10 Look how far away you are from Vayne and any other team member when you engage into a Teemo and a Zed. Not to mention you berate Vayne afterwards for not getting a kill through the teemo shrooms she followed you up into.
30:45 Going off to ward alone while you have no teammates nearby. At this point in the game having vision that deep wasn’t going to aid you and with you gone the enemy team has nothing to stop them from rolling over your base. It's unlikely your team was going to win at any rate, but this essentially seals the deal.
You have some definite greed for kills and team tilting inclinations exhibited in this game. I think you mainly need to improve your awareness of what your teammates are doing. You're constantly forcing teammates into fights they either don't want to take or are in poor position to respond to. You vent occasionally at teammates for making strategic blunders, but you seldom adjust your playstyle to accommodate them or work with them to push objectives. At least in this one game, all you seem to be out for is blood.
Watch the Rammus in your game as well, because he makes a lot of the same mistakes as an engage tank that you do occasionally in even worse ways. Constantly pushing out far by himself, not watching out for allies being flanked, dying alone in engages with nobody who could have reacted in time to make great use out of them.
Hope this feedback comes across as useful to you. Good luck out there.
BurstDmg1 votesIn prematch chat I always something to the effect of " I'm really good with Leona and know her limits well, but when I engage I need my adc to engage with me since Leona doesn't have an escape....if you do engage with me when I engage them, you'll get fed and I'll do my best to protect you"...or something similar. You made some really good points. Do you think that I'm too aggressive with leona, or do you think it was more an issue of me and Sivir not being on thhe same page? Doo you thnk I should be less aggressive and pick and choose my fights more wisely? I always thought that Leona was supposed to be played aggressively, but maybe that's where Im making my mistakes...having the wrong mentality. My view is, if Im aggressive and my adc engages with me, that we can control the flow at bot...even if we don't get the adc kills, we can put the other bot team on the defensive with our pokes because we get them low on health and make it tougher for them to poke us....but is this the wrong way of thinking?
BTW< Thank you for taking the time to watch the video and give a thorough breakdown of what you thought!!!
Lovely Pants2 votesI skimmed through the other video of yours as well, so I'll be having that one in mind as well with some additional thoughts.
I did see your description note there, but the point stands that you can't play the same way in every game and have the same results. Realize in a duo lane that knowing your limits means knowing your partner's limits as well.
Some of this is simply having a vague understanding of the common patterns of your Marksman. Your Sivir was trying to play the best game for her as well, and with Sivir that usually means pushing lane and poking opportunistically until a tower falls. It's not common for her to hard engage earlier in the game because of her limited mobility and burst compared to other marksman at that stage.
Leona is a more aggressive support, but you always need to be mindful of where your teammates are positioned in relation to you. If your ADC is hanging far back and you're pressed far behind the enemy minion line, for example, they can't join you fast enough to compliment your burst. Sometimes there's not a clear advantage for your ADC to join you either, if the enemy support can simply reciprocate lockdown on your carry, for example. In many situations you would gain a similar amount of pressure and damage on the enemy lane by "soft" engaging with your abilities and then retreating through your own minion wave so that if the enemy wanted to respond to you they are the ones coming into your ADC's territory and not the other way around. If successful, you've softened up the enemy so you can apply more pressure and maybe get the kill on your next rotation. If not successful, you've probably barely been scratched in the process and can more quickly resume your assault.
Being aggressive is not a bad thing and how aggressive you want to go in some part depends on how it suits your playstyle. You are correct in that it often lets you control the flow of the lane. However, there's a difference between being aggressive and being risky. Here are some examples that cross the line:
-Giving pursuit far into lane past the enemy wave. There are a few times in your games where I see your allied carry go from something like 3/4 health to 1/4 health without ever taking a hit from an enemy champion because they have followed you past the wave.
-Diving turrets without overwhelming odds (Team health/mana pool is dodgy, allies not in great position to follow up.) Every time you've done this in the game I've watched you've given up an equal amount of deaths or more to any enemy you've taken. If the enemy is that far back past their turret, just take the turret instead.
There's a common theme in everything I have said to you thus far. Define being aggressive to yourself as applying pressure, definitely pick fights more wisely.
You don't take the time and patience to stack the odds in your favor quite as often as you go straight for the throat and you waste time with a lot of these tactics trying to secure kills that end up letting the enemy team set up to counter you.
An even trade with the enemy is a waste of both of your time.
I'd like to mention a couple of your good points, with some advice to temper them, of course. Based on your other game, you do appear to have a basic understanding of the importance of vision dominance and objective control. However, you seem to often treat these as secondary elements to pay attention to once there are no more blokes within sight to kill.
Really, you can brute force your way through a lot of these issues at low level play, and for example the game you had with the Zed afk you probably would have won through brute force scaling if he was there. You could have closed out about 10 minutes earlier if your team had spent more time killing towers and inhibitors, though.
BurstDmg1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lovely Pants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJ8PzAjE,comment-id=0002000200000000,timestamp=2016-01-29T15:32:02.016+0000)
I skimmed through the other video of yours as well, so I'll be having that one in mind as well with some additional thoughts.
I did see your description note there, but the point stands that you can't play the same way in every game and have the same results. Realize in a duo lane that knowing your limits means knowing your partner's limits as well.
Some of this is simply having a vague understanding of the common patterns of your Marksman. Your Sivir was trying to play the best game for her as well, and with Sivir that usually means pushing lane and poking opportunistically until a tower falls. It's not common for her to hard engage earlier in the game because of her limited mobility and burst compared to other marksman at that stage.
Leona is a more aggressive support, but you always need to be mindful of where your teammates are positioned in relation to you. If your ADC is hanging far back and you're pressed far behind the enemy minion line, for example, they can't join you fast enough to compliment your burst. Sometimes there's not a clear advantage for your ADC to join you either, if the enemy support can simply reciprocate lockdown on your carry, for example. In many situations you would gain a similar amount of pressure and damage on the enemy lane by "soft" engaging with your abilities and then retreating through your own minion wave so that if the enemy wanted to respond to you they are the ones coming into your ADC's territory and not the other way around. If successful, you've softened up the enemy so you can apply more pressure and maybe get the kill on your next rotation. If not successful, you've probably barely been scratched in the process and can more quickly resume your assault.
Being aggressive is not a bad thing and how aggressive you want to go in some part depends on how it suits your playstyle. You are correct in that it often lets you control the flow of the lane. However, there's a difference between being aggressive and being risky. Here are some examples that cross the line:
-Giving pursuit far into lane past the enemy wave. There are a few times in your games where I see your allied carry go from something like 3/4 health to 1/4 health without ever taking a hit from an enemy champion because they have followed you past the wave.
-Diving turrets without overwhelming odds (Team health/mana pool is dodgy, allies not in great position to follow up.) Every time you've done this in the game I've watched you've given up an equal amount of deaths or more to any enemy you've taken. If the enemy is that far back past their turret, just take the turret instead.
-Invading the enemy jungle without overwhelming control. This is a common pattern across both of your games. You pick up an early kill in an exchange, and instead of using that time to regroup, secure control of the enemy territory and push an objective, you pursue low health targets well into enemy territory and maybe kill them after 10-15 seconds of playing tag. Most of the time when this happens the enemy jungler and other laners come around and smack a kill or two off of you in exchange. You might or might not come out ahead in the kill exchange, but nothing else is happening on the map all the while.
There's a common theme in everything I have said to you thus far. Define being aggressive to yourself as applying pressure, definitely pick fights more wisely.
You don't take the time and patience to stack the odds in your favor quite as often as you go straight for the throat and you waste time with a lot of these tactics trying to secure kills that end up letting the enemy team set up to counter you.
An even trade with the enemy is a waste of both of your time.
I'd like to mention a couple of your good points, with some advice to temper them, of course. Based on your other game, you do appear to have a basic understanding of the importance of vision dominance and objective control. However, you seem to often treat these as secondary elements to pay attention to once there are no more blokes within sight to kill.
Really, you can brute force your way through a lot of these issues at low level play, and for example the game you had with the Zed afk you probably would have won through brute force scaling if he was there. You could have closed out about 10 minutes earlier if your team had spent more time killing towers and inhibitors, though.
Thank you so much for taking the time to watch these video and give your insight. Knowing what players in higher tier are doing to succeed will help me learn how to succeed also. I will be less aggressive and pick my battles more wisely based on what you said, and play more consevatively. I have to keep in mind that killing a tower is way more potent than getting my adc or myself a kill. You really put a lot of time into helping me, and I cannot stress enough how much I appreciate this! I think Im better than bronze, but as you can see I still need to learn, and your insight is definitely helping!!!
Lovely Pants1 votesI guarantee, the fact that you are even taking the time to question yourself means that you can be better than bronze.
Just one last thing from me.
Don't stress out about doing everything better at once. Some of the wiser players I've seen offering their advice will say something to the effect that you should keep a single goal to improve on as you are practicing. Maybe one game you'll want to push yourself to concentrate on ally positioning. Maybe a different game you'll focus on simply watching where people are on the map and pinging where you want to go more clearly or sending up danger pings when you'd rather fall back.
Knowledge and application are different things, and putting that knowledge to good use is a matter of gradually replacing your habits. You're going to tilt every once and a while, and your teammates are going to draw you in to poor decisions by their actions. You can perform the best you ever have and still lose a game. Everything isn't within your control, but making an effort to recognize your own mistakes after every game will help you work on your habits and seize what opportunities are there in the next round.
So, go out and lose a bunch of games until you start winning more than you lose! I think you can make it.
BurstDmg1 votesFor some reason the Youtube link didnt format correctly, so here it is again to a different game where I thought I had played rather welll, but still lost:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1eMsMGk6PE&feature=youtu.be
Any feedback is appreciated!
PS---for some reason the thumbnail of the video is showing up weird in my browser, but if you click on it you still get taken to the new video I posted
BurstDmg1 votesHere is my most recent match with leona, which resulted in a loss, but I thought that I played well after a rocky start:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1eMsMGk6PE&feature=youtu.be