Black cleaver

Butt Düst·Oct 2, 2016·6 votes·866 views

Rito, please make the black cleaver melee only. That shit is absolutely broken on adc's. Why cant it be like the old days when adcs built crit and stuff

13 Comments

Phoenix Kotori Oct 2, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Rito, please make the black cleaver melee only. That shit is absolutely broken on adc's. Why cant it be like the old days when adcs built crit and stuff

How exactly is it broken on ADCs when only two of them Lucian MissFortune make common use of the item, oh wait sorry 2.5 if you got top lane Urgot I just don't see how its massively broken when two ranged champions buy it largely because it synergizes with their ults & they like CDR.

Literally no one else uses it consistently and if it were broken on them we'd be seeing it a lot more than that.

I can see the argument for item 3147 being problematic on ADCs, but item 3071 not really.

Or maybe this is a lowkey nerf Lucian and/or MF thread [slayer-jinx-wink]

WoodakoodashoodaOct 2, 20162 votes

Because Riot decided that all champions must have a dash and champions that don't have a dash should get a dash anyway with the likes of Thresh and Ivern. Despite multiple complaints that mobility creep was becoming a problem before it got this bad. But ADC's are still left without dashes in most cases and, as a result, get insta killed in fights by those who have them. So, ADC's figured to build like bruisers so that they can survive a little bit of damage and give some back in return.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 2, 20161 votes

ofcourse staying behind tanks and autoing people to death while they are being cced is toxic as hell.

WoodakoodashoodaOct 2, 20161 votes

That is what an ADC was designed to do. That is why tanks exist...at least they did.

Now the balance is completely gone out of the system.

Mobility demanded ADC's become beefier. Beefier ADC's meant that there needed to be more damage. More damage meant that armor is invalidated in many scenarios. The nerf bat to armor and the introduction of more damage to the game for less gold meant the decline of a standard tank.

And what's the next big plan? An "Assassin ~~buff~~ Rework".

AptestOct 2, 20161 votes

BC is a lot healthier on ADCs since most of them have to stack the shred over time with Autos. Your precious melees always have a way of cheesing out more stacks faster.

My problem with BC is that it gives CDR. People getting both CDR and competitive damage on the same item is an issue, to me.

Big LincolnOct 2, 20161 votes

BC is a lot healthier on ADCs since most of them have to stack the shred over time with Autos

yeah, the 3 seconds it takes for them to apply the full shred from their safe ranges and usually with AoEs MissFortune Lucian Ashe sure is healthy

but melees having abilities that synergize with it is a no-no, huh?

KyrrionOct 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZIkFLyjA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-10-02T06:37:41.751+0000)

yeah, the 3 seconds it takes for them to apply the full shred from their safe ranges and usually with AoEs sure is healthy

but melees having abilities that synergize with it is a no-no, huh?

Don't forget that if Ashe has her Q active, one auto applies 5 stacks.

AstôlfoOct 2, 20161 votes

You're drunk. Go home.

ZacsRealmOct 2, 20161 votes

Or we could just, for instance, not nerf Urgot for no reason.

AstôlfoOct 2, 20161 votes

Or, we could realize Urgot's barely even relevant when the far more common ADCs that abuse armorpen items they should never have been able to use in the first place are the problem.

ZacsRealmOct 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or, we could realize Urgot's barely even relevant when the far more common ADCs that abuse armorpen items they should never have been able to use in the first place are the problem.

That's no reason to block out his access to one of his core items when he's already barely relevant in the first place. The only way to fix that properly would be to make Urgot a melee champion, or give him a special exception allowing him to buy it when other ranged characters can't. Urgot's not bad, just unpopular. This would be a nail in his coffin :\

Akali is SO HOTOct 2, 20161 votes

Black Cleaver should be changed to be oriented more towards bruisers but ADCs building it isn't a very big problem considering they need more options for armor pen outside of just the last whisper items. Duskblade and Ghostblade are different stories though.

MorissOct 27, 20161 votes

Here are a few things I think are wrong with any ADC buying black cleaver. It's most easily applied from afar. It overall lowers the skill cap for those champions. It lowers overall counterplay because it amps your entire teams physical damage on that target not just yours. It makes the AD tankier and often when coupled with phantom dancer for the 12% damage reduction it turns what was a marksman into more of a bruiser/duelist.

I feel like that overall makes it generally harder to distinguish a good AD player from a great one. Why you might ask for more depth and detail? It makes the champion abusing the items much more dependable vs what are/were higher risk high reward build paths that for a very long time defined the premier damage output class. I personally feel like champions such as J4, Reksai, Riven, Darius, Illaoi and many other bruiser types fit the bill for taking and pushing out abuse. Never in any other game have I seen the marksman class so spoiled as to be able to rip apart defenses with auto attacks. It's really nonsensical to say the least. It's really dreadful game design. That item should involve some commitment not just press a button max stacks boom frontline dies so fast in teamfights.....