Ahri's true damage gimps her potential against squishies in 6.23

Jeanne fan club··6 votes·1,475 views

With the new changes to masteries and items, the breakdown on % amp damage is as shows; 2.0% from sorcery 7.5% (total from bounty hunter) 2.0% (from assassin mastery) 5.0% (when opponent is below 40% hp) 10.0% from the new abyssal (which I like to build on Ahri) (I KNOW THIS ONLY APPLIES ON MAGIC DAMAGE, I'M JUST SAYING IT TO MAKE A POINT) 26.5% damage amp total. (It is very circumstantial when all of these amps would apply at once, however, a typical full ahri combo would usually leave a squishy target at less than 40% hp, so the return of her q would usually meet that requirement.)

The problem here is that her true damage does not benefit from % damage amps. Most of the games I've played on Ahri with abyssal I've ended up doing more damage with the magic portion of the q than the true damage part of it against people with 42 or less mr ( I like to run 14 magic penn on my rune page and sorc shoes). According to Riots tendencies towards balancing boomerang abilities (talon and ekko in particular), this is not healthy game design. The return should be doing more than the initial. Sure this is true against pure tanks and bruisers, however, it kind of gimps ahri out of a bit of damage against squishies, and isn't always consistent depending on builds.

Now, I would like to propose that either % amp damage gets reworked, or a portion of Ahri's magic damage from q gets shifted over to the return true damage. The second proposal really wouldn't change much other than get rid of a bit of potential damage against squishies, and maybe help her deal with high resistance champions, which she really struggles with. IDK, maybe change the true damage proc so that it can benefit from a maximum of 16.5% amp damage, but that would cause a lot of problems because no other true damage in the game benefits from the % amp.

I really don't know what to make from all of this myself, I just wanted to point this issue out in hopes that someone else will have a better answer, or perhaps an argument justifying why this is ok and that I'm just over reacting. Perhaps this is even a good thing considering she does more damage against squishies and I'm just ruining this exploit for everyone. Idk, I just think this interaction is extremely weird between Ahri's q and % amp damage

The title is kind of clickbait, sry guys.

EDIT::::::

Ya know, any time I try to point anything out about Ahri, the people who come to these threads turn it into an "AHRI IS OP" circlejerk. I really just wanted to point out this interaction because it is an inconsistency among riots other designs.

90% of the comments here have nothing to do with this interaction, Jesus Christ this community has hit an all time low. I probably won't come back to the gameplay boards, meaningful discussion is an afterthought here.

68 Comments

Penns8 votes

It would be an "issue" if she didnt basically oneshot squishies with WR + thunderlords lul

Brain Errör 4042 votes

Except, she doesn't.

Penns5 votes

I mean, looking at https://i.gyazo.com/eb639769e9f1db30cf2202458af94014.gif for example, she gets close enough. But the problem is that after that she still has ult charges left and W is gonna come up in 4-6s again as well so she really doesnt need skillshots. Besides, its not like its really hard to hit her E when you dash right into someone lol.

Jeanne fan club2 votes

Not enough context to that situation to make an adequate evaluation, sorry bud, but as an ahri main for 2 years now, you need to be at least 6-0 to even get close to using all 3 ult procs + 2 w's to kill someone. Maybe if you skip both standard builds for her and rush a rabadons, but otherwise there is no way you can do that.

Penns2 votes

But then... why did that 4/3 Ahri with item 1056 item 3020 item 3802 and item 3108 basically oneshot the 1 level behind Brand with 2 ults + 1 w? o

Jeanne fan club1 votes

she hit both procs of q and it also looks like she ignited, and I'm counting like 2 autos with nami e in there too. I don't know if those are the items she had, you are giving me nothing but your word. Also, assuming she has both sorc and typical 8 magic penn, that is like less than 7-16% of magic reduction on brand, and judging by the clip it looks like 7%, which is basically wet paper.

Penns2 votes

Well the second part of q hit, the first one didnt. Theres gotta be a reason she has 54% win rate with 10% play rate and has been god tier for an eternity now, why would you buff her?

Charmed by Ahri1 votes

God tier? Was when I could walk right up to you while you ran left and right in s4 with DFG and having Maxed out E & Q at lvl 13 and 1 shot you. Without even using W&R. At least you can flash away or dodge E right? Rip dfg.

And what's odd enough Ahri's winrate across the elos averages about 48-51.50~%, depending on the patch and month itself what's in the meta and how she fares against it. She dropped pretty hard after several changes throughout patches and her own series of changes and nerfs. That includes changes to items. If you research OTP Ahri's, a lot of them barely manage over 50% wr, that's with 400+ games in dia+. So theres that. The only Exception as of currently, which is rare imo, in challenger where some recent Ahri gameplay has somehow happened, her WR is extremely high, but the players I can think of x out x number( and I leave it x so that challenger player isn't blasted on the boards) are partially maxing E over W, which is extremely effective in an assassin meta. Which in my opinion Ahri does well in assassin meta's, but partially its because alot of the new reworks people are still learning. Beyond all this if you research OTP Ahri mains plat+ who max E over W second, they actually have higher Winrates than those other nine tailed fox mains who can't seem to pull their head out of their ***. ಠ_ಠ I mean I know who the challengers are who are playing her at that level so the wr she's accumulated thereof doesn't surprise me either. But the only elo besides challenger where ahri actually holds a 54% wr( and its high atm but fluctuates like any other wr) in ranked is plat. Which doesn't surprise me either for obvious reasons. cough cough
again not saying its my fault but Ahri's pick rate in plat rose x %( x again because I refuse to post that data) since s4 now preseason 7. Plat is only 8 percent of the player base anyways. But this clearly isnt about fluctuating win rates and no links to statistical data. Its about the no name Ahri who rushed in to semi land her Q, while nami missed her bubble and ult. But gave Ahri her auto attack buff. But no one noticed her mistakes? Maybe because she's a support. But frankly it looks like a clown fiesta top lane. And Ahri is quite balanced. She's in no position for buffs. Her return Q DMG isn't amplified by masteries? This isn't charm amp days. The math difference on the amp masteries on her Q forward and the Q backwards isn't gamechanging. At 500~ AP, its only a slight difference. But not even worth mentioning. You basically need to be a good Ahri, land your shots. Find key moments to rush, use passive accordingly, kite, peel. Dive. If Ahri received any kind of buffs or power shifts it would probably take time to find the right spot todoso. Shift her power to Q, stronger waveclear, which currently she doesn't need. Shift power to E, which they have done already and if they shift some more to it would be nice & welcomed. I doubt we see any power shift to W or R.

Catastrop2 votes

Because Ahri is balanced and not a godforsaken piece of trash that needs to be gutted into unplayability in the slightest.

But seriously though, she took 3 whole seconds and I'm assuming you had no CDs so had no way to fight back. I see no problem here, as she just took advantage of a situation is all.

Penns1 votes

My problem isnt just this situation, the problem is that she can win all ins mid lane without using any of her skillshots properly. And her e is basically a death sentence.

Catastrop2 votes

I agree with you here actually, her W I don't mind because she needs to be in aa range, but that ult is just retarded. It does way too much damage for the safety it provides and pretty much allows her to land E for free. Don't even get me started on how she can choose put some early points into it.

N3mO065 votes

{quoted}

I mean, looking at https://i.gyazo.com/eb639769e9f1db30cf2202458af94014.gif for example, she gets close enough. But the problem is that after that she still has ult charges left and W is gonna come up in 4-6s again as well so she really doesnt need skillshots. Besides, its not like its really hard to hit her E when you dash right into someone lol.

This is why Ahri is tier 1 mid lane from her mini rework

Jeanne fan club1 votes

nah dude, she is like tier 2, high tier 2 at most. Viktor is so much better, and easier at that

Malicious Metal4 votes

Did you just call Viktor easy?

Jeanne fan club2 votes

yeah, I'd rank him among my top 3 comfort picks, and I've never even played a normal game as him. I legit bought him back in season 5 and just spammed ranked with him, ended up going 36W and 15L. Im surprised to see his winrate so low tbh

Malicious Metal3 votes

Viktor is one of the hardest mid lane champions to be frank.

You may be good at him but there are a lot of mid laners that are easier to play and carry with.

Viktor is just overall a very versatile pick, that's why pro players play him a ton.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

I still don't understand where the difficulty lies but ok, if you say so :\

legionnaire991 votes

Maybe he just clicked with you

Jeanne fan club1 votes

maybe, but idk, Legit all I do is q spam lvl 1, then Q E aa combo to shove the opponent out of lane. I have never lost lane without being ganked by doing this. IDK if im just lucky or what, but I've never had any difficulty playing him before.

Rock MD2 votes

[{quoted}](name=9 Tailed Waifu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZIXt6EwM,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T00:11:10.561+0000)

maybe, but idk, Legit all I do is q spam lvl 1, then Q E aa combo to shove the opponent out of lane. I have never lost lane without being ganked by doing this. IDK if im just lucky or what, but I've never had any difficulty playing him before.

Viktor has high CDs and an awkward skillshot. That coupled with low (early game) waveclear means you have to be proficient at lane aggression to do well with him.

He's not difficult until you have an actual lane bully like Syndra or Cassiopeia or just against someone who doesn't take damage that easily (Cho'Gath or Diana), then you have to be a lot smarter about trading.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

I think people overate his E early game. All of his damage pre hex core upgrade comes from his q, which is on like a 5 second cd if i remember correctly.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

IDK man, i think he has one of the most oppressive early games for a midlaner. the Q aa combo is completely broken pre hex core upgrade

Rock MD1 votes

[{quoted}](name=9 Tailed Waifu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZIXt6EwM,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-28T03:06:21.140+0000)

IDK man, i think he has one of the most oppressive early games for a midlaner. the Q aa combo is completely broken pre hex core upgrade

Would you like to play a few games so I can show you where he is best abused?

Rock MD1 votes

Would you like to play a few games so I can show you how he's best abused?

Jeanne fan club1 votes

no sorry, im busy getting demoted from diamond.

Sona x Rubick1 votes

i don't see a oneshot here

move on

Penns1 votes

Yeah she had to use her ult twice, so much more counterplay for an Ahri that didnt finish 1 item other than boots Kappa

Sona x Rubick1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah she had to use her ult twice, so much more counterplay for an Ahri that didnt finish 1 item other than boots Kappa

Yes, especially when she has 2/3 more lvl and it wasn't a oneshot, just stop and move on, she took 3 sec to kill the dude

Penns1 votes

K, I guess Ahri killing someone with 3 non-skillshot spells is fine because she takes 2s but when a melee assassin thats actually supposed to do the same thing does it its unfair and they need more delay lol.

Sona x Rubick1 votes

old assassins used to all instakill a target, they didn't take 3 seconds to kill someone Ahri's "non-skillshot spells" are also low range, if you let her doing all of this i don't have any solutions for you.

Jeanne fan club

not to mention, in the clip she landed both procs from q, 2 nami empowered autos and ignite it looks like

Sona x Rubick1 votes

you're wrong, she only landed the true damage part of her Q

ahri is just a safe pick in laning phase, nothing is wrong with her killing pathern

Jeanne fan club1 votes

oh, mb.

Penns2 votes

Ah ok so I shouldnt let the champ with 3 dashes that have higher range than flash get near me?

Sona x Rubick2 votes

Nothing prevents you from preventing ahri to kill you when a squishy champ dashes on you

especially if you're the fucker named brand

in that clip of yours, you were 2v4, and ahri was ahead, tell me more i'm out now

Penns1 votes

4/3 Ahri without 1 item finished is ahead of the 3/1/3 Brand and you can prevent Ahri from instakilling you as squishy in 2k16 lul

Sona x Rubick2 votes

{quoted}

from instakilling you

lmfao

Brain Errör 4041 votes

3 Autos, a nami Auto, all 3 W hit and 2nd part of the Q hit (The TRUE damage portion). She also blew 2 ulti charges, which isn't truly ideal for taking out one target like that. It all worked out, considering it didn't seem like a big teamfight, though. But did you see how long it took her to kill him? That took her like 3 whole seconds to kill that dude and you're REALLY complaining about Ahri? Like lmfao man.

Poppy had all the time in the world to body block OR W. She can't control who her W targets, it's that sad.

Penns1 votes

Since when is it just about how long it takes someone to kill? If Ahri is a way safer version of an assassin while also being a ranged kite mage with good cc, why does it matter that she takes like 1 sec longer to kill than some assassins? She didnt even hit her E or Q properly.. An assassin that doesnt hit half his kit would never do that much damage + he wouldnt have an ult charge left to get out again.

Brain Errör 4042 votes

It doesn't even look like she threw out E. I've had too many Ahri debates lately to keep repeating the same thing, so I'm just gonna leave this one as is.

I've had Zed's ulti, E auto attack me and I die without them even landing shurikens.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

I think there was an ignite too

Catastrop2 votes

Ignite, TLD, 2 autos, the orb return damage, W and 2 R procs, I really don't know what he expected to happen with all the damage here.

2Charmnot2Charm1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, looking at https://i.gyazo.com/eb639769e9f1db30cf2202458af94014.gif for example, she gets close enough. But the problem is that after that she still has ult charges left and W is gonna come up in 4-6s again as well so she really doesnt need skillshots. Besides, its not like its really hard to hit her E when you dash right into someone lol.

She still hit you with the true damage of q by using her ult to redirect the return direction.

In this situation she doesn't have to waste her last ult charge to deal with you.

Also why the hell would she throw charm here when you have minions in the way to block the charm for you?

Akali is SO HOT6 votes

Ahri has been overpowered ever since her mini rework at the beginning of Season 5. She's only fallen below the top 10 winrates a few times and has never been below the top 15. She needs massive nerfs if anything.

Charmed by Ahri1 votes

Most if not everything you say is pure poison. You sure you don't play cass? We all know why Ahri got that mini rework. Which I will state for unth Time. Q E can be dodged. W buff was asked for, not a scaling buff, but base damage addition that replaced charm amp. It mainly moved Ahri's weaker early game into a stronger one. Her WR skyrocketed to the high 50% side. And her play rate increased like any champion who is buffed. The community as a whole felt it was "overwhelming" so they took away W buff gave her Q movement speed. To help kite and to help ahri get her Q return since Q is basically two skillshots. Some scaling was added to her E and a small max rank buff. To most likely give incentive to Ahri charm players. They lowered her acquisition range of W and R respectively so Ahri has to rely more heavily on landing Her shots. Her WR fell, along with her play rate. Especially as item power shifts took place and the the rest of the changes that took place between preseason 5 and preseason 7. As did other champions like amumu azir brand anivia who sat at the top 5 for months on end. No longer hold those spots.

Akali is SO HOT3 votes

What does any of that have to do with Ahri being broken?

Charmed by Ahri1 votes

You can always try me and further your arguement with your own opinions. As many people believe other champions other than the ones they play are broken. Just shes a jack of all trades, poster girl champion, that doesnt excel at any one thing in particular. Further more you play akali. Lol she has absolutely no counter play. Resets dashes on kills, passive is one of the most un parralleled in terms of sustain, point click damage and stealth that no longer can be revealed and doesn't run on mana. But sure Ahri is broken. Tell me more

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

what?

More from Gameplay

More by Jeanne fan club