How is evelynn not a worse Shaco?

Crescent Dusk·12/26/2019, 8:20:49 PM·2 votes·935 views

Can anyone explain why she would ever be preferable over him? Similarly healthy, speedy jungle clears. His invis is true invis, he's got mobility with it on Q that evelynn doesn't have, a ranged snare that's also an execute.

His shiv cannot be bodyblocked, his CC is aoe and does damage on top, with less ramp up and counterplay. He can have ignite by default thanks to his Q, and his execute is always available instead of an ult.

His ult like eve gives him an invuln windown and an escape, but with added damage and cc on top.

Evelynn has virtually zero escape besides her ult, so if she goes in or gets invaded in jungle and her ult isn't up, she's dying.

What's the point of this champion when there are better version of her already in place?

10 Comments

DartExplosion1012/26/2019, 8:21:42 PM2 votes

nobody is arguing against you

Cerbearus12/26/2019, 8:44:08 PM2 votes

Shaco has much better early ganks but Eve has a lot of pressure just by existing after level 6. Normal wards no longer protect you and in fact create a false sense of security. Eve's power lies less in actually killing people and more in the threat of killing people who are alone or don't have red wards.

SonicÐeHedgedawg12/26/2019, 8:49:50 PM2 votes

Evelynn's Perma-stealth gives her much better ability to avoid wards when moving across the map, even if it gives her less in-combat invisibility.
Eve has higher burst then shaco. Shaco can't 100-0 as often or as quickly as Eve.
Eve does magic damage, allowing you to diversify your team's damage output.
Eve's passive makes her much better at staying healthy at pretty much all points of the game. Shaco has a fine early jungle clear, but if he gets chunked in a gank, he has a harder time replenishing his HP than Eve, especially once Eve builds some AP
Eve has access to ap itemization by being an AP champion.
Eve can't dive into danger and get out as often as shaco, but her ult and charm means that, basically, if she activates her charm on someone, she can dive into a much more dangerous situation and get out immediately with her ultimate. Shaco’s engage and disengage are the same tool meaning he has a much longer window of vulnerability.

This isn't to say Eve is objectively BETTER than shaco, just that there are clear differences and some of them are in Eve's favor

SonicÐeHedgedawg12/26/2019, 10:21:21 PM1 votes

Having a lot to say doesn't mean that you said much that's accurate. To summarize the finer points:

Eve hits 6 roughly after 2 full jungle clears, there will be SOME red wards most of the time at that point, but there won't be tonnes unless people are bleeding their gold stores dry specifically to ward against you... In which case you've already had an impact. And umbral Blade darkens the ward as you pass it, so people will still know you're coming which they won't with Eve.
being magic damage means you can run an ad assassin mid without forcing ap onto your top lane or forcing a mage support to diversify your team's damage profile. I never argued AP was inherently, or in all cases better than AD just that it's different and, by extension, pretty directly contradicts the suggestion that Eve is just a worse shaco, there are definitely situations in which having ap in your jungle is a boon. And there are some upsides to so items as well including much easier pivots to tankiness, easier access to mana itemization and a hugely cost-effective soulstealer. Again, it won't always be the superior option, but it won't always be inferior either which is all it takes to make Eve not “just a worse shaco”

As a final note, the complete dismissal of Eve's charm just because it isn't guaranteed is disingenuous to the point that it makes it difficult to even engage in conversation here: even at the professional level, it will land. Not every time but often enough that to pretend like it's too unreliable to even factor into her power budget is laughable.

SonicÐeHedgedawg12/26/2019, 10:59:36 PM1 votes

Arguing “shaco is better than Eve” and “Eve is an inferior version of shaco” are two entirely different things. You claim the later but only have arguments for the former. They obviously have some overlap but you have failed to make any convincing argument that they are so similar that Eve is basically just “shaco but worse”