what happened to gragas?

Veraska·Dec 16, 2015·3 votes·999 views

The last nerf he received was on the patch world's was played on and he was used pretty consistently all the way through until he was disabled due to a game breaking bug

What happened in preseason that nerfed him so much?

12 Comments

l Helios lDec 16, 20153 votes

He's still good, it's just the meta favors carry junglers now more than hard tanks like gragas. Mundo is the exception, but he has decent carry potential in his own right.

CIockw0rkDec 16, 20151 votes

Amumu, Sejuani, Skarner, Zac, Mundo, Kench, tanks are still in a very good position (i main jungle and i mostly pkay tanks)! Riot gave them that little mr nerf on monsters wich put them back on powerful track. Gragas is damageless after too many nerfs. He only has a utility kit remaining and he is moderate-high skillcap champ, it doest let much room to win a game, unless you are godlike with him. He is my most played champ and i quit on him last september, there is simply better tank at this moment, its easier to win with other picks.

l Helios lDec 16, 20151 votes

Skarner is bad, amumu is bad, sejuani has been bad for a while, Mundo I mentioned, kench is better as a support, and Zac I'll concede.

I'm going based off LCS standards. The 4 you mentioned are not very good at all. Skarner got warwick'd as did sej. Amumu has solid CC but isn't carry potential. Kench is just a better support all around.

Bottom line is none of those are good enough to rule out Mundo, Kindred, Ekko, or Elise. Sure you can play them and they're ok, but they aren't better than these 4.

TeemoJenkinsDec 16, 20152 votes

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/destinytakesawalk/diabeetus.jpg

AbyssphereDec 16, 20152 votes

Gragas is only ever popular when he's broken. Now that there are no pro games happening, people aren't having the belief that Grag is broken reinforced by the pros, so he falls away while people play champions that they actually find fun.

He'll probably be popular again in spring.

DreadlocksDec 16, 20151 votes

I've seen him played mid 4x now.. not once in the jungle lol.

1YearNoFapDec 16, 20151 votes

W nerf really hurt his damage output as a tank. But his utility is still there. There is just better champs to play now (tanks that spit out more damage than adc's) DrMundo Trundle

BeldairDec 16, 20151 votes

He finally found a drink that could make him pass out.

CalabokDec 16, 20151 votes

He farted and died

CIockw0rkDec 16, 20151 votes

He was still used in worlds because team have played around it all season long. Despite the nerf after nerf on him, his kit was still the reason he is pick in pros teamcomp. He has not the dmg he once had during season 5. He is my most played champ season 5 but i didnt play him since last nerf. Gragas is now a tank-Support, his dmg is absent. Damageless moderate-high skillcap champion = one of the worst winrate...

Hard4HamstersDec 17, 20151 votes

I honestly feel like Gragas isn't as bad as he seems on paper. He still has all of his pick, disengage, and kiting tools he had before all of his nerfs (minus half a second worth of slow on his Q when he pops it immediately). His damage has taken a hit with W being nerfed considerably, but I think he still has pretty high base damage for a tank with his Q, E, and Ult to make up for the loss on his W. I think the best leveling order for him right now is Q->E (for about 3 levels)->W->finish leveling E if necessary. This is just my preference right now, as he doesn't gain much damage from leveling W anymore, but the damage reduction makes a difference later in the game and Gragas stops being about dealing damage after the midgame.

I think he needs a little help to get back into this season as nearly every one of his core tank items has been hit: item 1409 (this is debatable) item 3110 item 3800 item 3105 . I don't think he really needs much to make him a strong pick again. Really just giving him a little bit of his HP regen back would do a lot for him. I don't think he really needs more damage to be an effective jungler. I think people just need to adapt with him a little bit more and try some new things.

New things I'm still trying to figure out if I like to run Strength of Ages (12/0/18 or 6/6/18) on him for a tankier midgame or Thunderlord's Decree (12/18/0) for much more potent ganks in the early game, along with faster clears. Both have advantages and drawbacks, but I think both are very viable on Gragas right now. Going down the cunning tree, you have access to Precision which will help your clears and your ganks (you can also take the 5% CDR, but I feel Precision is better), but you are missing out on the resistances of the Resolve tree and the easy ~300 HP you'll have by midgame. I'm liking Thunderlord's for now as I think it gives the most early game power to any jungler right now, even though Gragas will build mostly defensively. This is kind of like how Gragas players would go 21/9/0 in the old masteries for the best possible clears and ganks to help snowball their team.

Runes I have been experimenting with are AP Quints, armor yellows, flat CDR blues (7.5%, I know right?) and interestingly, Hybrid Pen marks. Using item 1039 , you don't really lose out on much clear time when compared to the standard Attack speed marks due to getting a lot of armor pen with the Precision mastery and the hybrid pen runes. Using Hunter's Machette will give you quicker clears when using attack speed runes, but it still isn't very noticeable. Your clears will take an extra second or two per camp in the early game, but I think it is worth it for the amount of damage this adds to your ganks as you will have around 9 magic pen and about 15 armor pen at level 4. Having Thunderlords Decree will increase the burst in your ganking power and having Merciless, Oppressor, and Sorcery give a substantial increase in your overall damage.

His item build is a little wonky right now as well as his main tank items have increased in cost or have been lowered in effectiveness. Gragas is also fairly mana hungry so itemizing into mana is pretty important if you want to keep pressure up. The problem is that Frozen Heart and Rigtheous Glory are not very good right now and are more niche items against certain comps. There is an item that Gragas can use that was buffed though: item 3025 . With IBG, Gragas has the potential to permanently CC targets. The item is also great for clearing the jungle even faster with the AOE spellblade effect. The most important thing is that it gives a lot of stats that Gragas likes. 20% CDR is huge and 500 mana is enough to sustain him through the midgame without Blue buff. Be warned, this doesn't give great protection against magic damage heavy comps. If you are facing such a comp, Aegis and Spectre's Cowl are your go-to's as intermediate items to sit on while you build Glacial shroud or a Sheen: item 1401 -> item 3211 -> item 3024 -> item 3065 for example.

I think that Gragas may need some help to really find a place in this meta, but there might be more that players can do to increase his winrate than buffs by experimenting and finding what works for him right now. Gragas is definitely my favorite champion right now (he has been for awhile), but he was a problem champion for a long time in Season 5 as he had no inherent weaknesses and was an incredibly safe pick as he could fit in ANY teamcomp. One thing to keep in mind through all of this is that Gragas' winrate in solo queue was low even during the World's patch ~46-47% even though he was a very contested pick. His winrate right now is about 44% right now and I think this stems partially from season changes that didn't favor him, but also partially due to people being unsure of what works best for him right now, and I think this might be a result of his drop in popularity. Gragas will always probably have a relatively low winrate in solo queue though as he really can't carry games as a tank, but rather carries by proxy by snowballing his team's carries. He needs a team to play with him to be "OP" and that doesn't always happen in solo queue games.

Sorry for the long post. These are my thoughts on Gragas' fall from the top. Direct nerfs hit him near the end of Season 5, but indirect nerfs have probably hit him harder than those. I think he's still good and can carry games, but he appears to be underpowered as a tank jungler right now. I feel like Gragas is one buff away from being a good solo laner again though. Lichbane and RoA have both been buffed recently and Abyssal Scepter is almost made for Gragas and is one of the cheapest AP items right now. If his Q is ever altered to do more damage to minions, I think we'll see Gragas in the spotlight again. Anyway. I wish you all the best. Give me some feedback if you have the time. Thanks for reading. Peace.