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With the abundance of displacemente CC, can Tenacity FINALLY be made to affect it?

NA Darklarik··2 votes·1,546 views

Title. For those who do not affect the duration or length of displacements, such as knockups or pushbacks.

Couple years ago, id be fine with that. But the game, especially god damn supportsAlistar Rakan Braum Galio Blitzcrank Janna Janna Janna Nautilus Zyra , have been having these effects in spades, not to mention certain annoying ADCs Tristana Vayne who seem to posses mobility, high damage and self peeling for some reason.

Can we just make tenacity reduce its effects one and for all? Like if Tristana or Lee Sin's push back sends you 600 units back, if you have tenacity can we please make it so its only 400 units if you have like 33% Tenacity or the sort?

Just seems unfair that certain Game defining abilities for certain champions who have stuns or snares get affected by this but not displacementes. Like bro, its 2018, CC is out of control, especially for melee champs cant ever touch an ADC now a days, please, push this buff already.

6 Comments

TheSandQrator2 votes

Tenacity affecting knockups? Yes. Tenacity affecting displacements? No. At this point, because they're so darned widespread, it should do. But only for direct knockups; it should not affect displacement effects, for a variety of reasons.

A larger and larger portion of the hard crowd control in League these days is displacement effects (including knockups). It's being trickled in more and more often than other forms of actual disables, which disproportionately affects melee champions' ability to function. Their threat range is often significantly smaller than ranged champions', and it's so much easier to get out of that as a result.

Champions with disabling effects in their kit, in the last two years (plus change): Zoe : No displacement/knockup. Slow -> Sleep [E]. Ornn : Three effective knockups, (one displacement due to terrain creation): [AA] (Brittle target), [E], [R2]. 2 Slows [Q], [R1]. Kayn : One knockup (potentially) [W, Rhaast], otherwise, Slow [W, Kayn/Assassin]. Rakan : One knockup [W]; Charm [R]. Xayah : No displacement/knockup. Root [E]. Camille : One displacement (secondary targets only) [R]; Slow [W]; Stun [E]. Ivern : One knockup [R]; Root [Q]; Slow [E]. Kled : Two displacements [Mounted Q], [R]; Slow [Q]. Taliyah : Two displacements, (one due to terrain creation) [W] [R]; Slow [E]. AurelionSol : One displacement [R]; Stun [Q]; Slow [R]. Jhin : No displacement/knockup. Root [W]; Slow [E].

We've had twelve champions released since the start of 2016. Every single one, bar one, has had some form of crowd control in their kit (one with an excess of it), which is fair. Literally three quarters of those champions had abilities that were not affected by Tenacity in the slightest.

Many of those that have displacement effects, would be pointless if Tenacity reduced how far enemies moved:

  • Camille's ult would not be able to push enemies out of the arena, rendering that part useless.
  • Kled's abilities would function mostly the same since they're small displacements (seemingly mostly used to emphasize impact/cause interrupts).
  • Taliyah's W -> E combo basically wouldn't function. You could very plausibly get stuck inside her R wall.
  • Aurelion Sol's R would be hit hard, as its purpose is to damage, but also to displace enemies to a fixed distance away from him.

I really do believe that they should tone down on the amount of non-reducible crowd control, they've hit a point where it's so prevalent that it's going to be very difficult to change those abilities/effects without throwing so many things into flux.

I'm actually considering putting together a spreadsheet just to see how the distribution of disables has evolved over time... Hmn.

EDIT: I thought something was off, and I was right! I am an idiot and didn't count the goddamned nine champion reworks (eight with crowd control) released in that space of time. The general trend of irreducible CC still mostly holds, though.

Taric : No displacement/knockup. Stun [E]. Yorick : One displacement (due to terrain creation) [W]; Slow [E]. Warwick : No displacement/knockup. Fear/Slow [E]; Suppression [R]. Galio : Two knockups [E], [R]; Taunt [W]. Urgot : One displacement [E]; 2 Slows [Q], [R]; Stun [E]; Suppression/Fear [R]. Evelynn : No displacement/knockup. Slow / Charm [W]. Swain : One displacement [Passive]; Slow [W]; Root [E]. Irelia : No displacement. Stun [E]; Disarm + Slow [R].

These ones would not be anywhere near as adversely affected by CC reduction being applied to knockups, they're mainly glorified stuns. (Urgot's flip would be hilarious, though, you might get stuck inside his model.)

Jon 6789101 votes

Seems like a good idea for knockups, but I doubt it will for work for knockbacks. Having something like Vayne's condemn having its distance reduced would be a huge issue against champs who get a lot of tenacity (they just wouldn't move).

NA Darklarik1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jon 678910,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZFMPxor3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-27T03:29:23.989+0000)

Seems like a good idea for knockups, but I doubt it will for work for knockbacks. Having something like Vayne's condemn having its distance reduced would be a huge issue against champs who get a lot of tenacity (they just wouldn't move).

Thats entirely the damn point of investing gold into a stat that should do what its meant to....

Jon 6789101 votes

[{quoted}](name=NA Darklarik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZFMPxor3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-27T03:33:07.075+0000)

Thats entirely the damn point of investing gold into a stat that should do what its meant to....

While we're at it, let's get blitzcrank hook to not pull you to blitzcrank.

TheSandQrator1 votes

I believe that was an example that was brought up by a Rioter, the last time I saw them reply to this suggestion (in a different thread, of course). There's no way they can resolve this without having unique interactions for spells that have to move a target a fixed distance.

Also I honestly believe that there would be a bug with it where taking Thresh's lantern wouldn't take you the full way and you'd get stuck in a wall and/or dead. It would be bloody funny to see though.

Mordepool1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jon 678910,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZFMPxor3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-27T03:29:23.989+0000)

Seems like a good idea for knockups, but I doubt it will for work for knockbacks. Having something like Vayne's condemn having its distance reduced would be a huge issue against champs who get a lot of tenacity (they just wouldn't move).

That sounds like perfectly reasonable counterplay

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