Ideas to balance Irelia

Aheadatime··3 votes·731 views

Irelia's kit seems to have a lot of stuff packed in it, which is troublesome regarding balance. The ideas I have would aim to simplify her kit slightly without changing too much of her playstyle.

**Passive - Ionian Fervor **- Tenacity gained per nearby enemy champion normalized to 8%.

Old increments 1 Champion - 10% 2 Champions - 25% 3+ Champions - 40%

New Increments 1 Champion - 8% 2 Champions - 16% 3 Champions - 24% 4 Champions - 32% 5 Champions - 40%

Q -- Bladesurge - Unchanged.

W - Hiten Style

_Passive _- Removed

Active - Basic attacks now deal bonus magic damage instead of true damage.

Damage increased to 20/40/60/80/100(+0.2 AP) from 15/30/45/60/75.

Health restored increased to 10/15/20/25/30 from 10/14/18/22/26.

E - Equilibrium Strike

Slow removed.

%HP requirement for stun removed (now stuns 100% of the time).

Stun duration lowered to .5/.75/1/1.25/1.5 from 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2

R - Transcendent Blades - Unchanged.

9 Comments

AyRe CoNteMpT3 votes
  1. the passive change is good

  2. all the others are horrible

  3. hiten style is actually fine, it has enough counterplay and its damage isnt that high. the only thing they should change is that, same as with master yis wuju style, as long as its on cooldown, the passive is lost. that would be the only change required here.

  4. her true problem is the equilibrium strike because it is basically an undodgeable, uncounterable super long stun with VERY low cooldown. its also very hard to balance with numerical changes, as an undodgeable stun is just always very bad for game health, especially if its on such a strong champion and on such a low cooldown.

i think, a good change for it would be to lower the damage aswell as the stun duration to be similar to pantheons stun.

like, about 30/60/90/120/150 damage and 0.7/0.9/1.1/1.3/1.5 seconds stun.

  1. i would very much enjoy if bladesurge would reset not fully but only to 1 second cooldown. not even yasuo can dash that fast.
Aheadatime1 votes

Agreed on the passive.

What exactly is the counterplay for her Hiten Style atm? What counterplay is there for lifesteal and true damage? Avoid her altogether? Then you give her lane control. CC her? Free tenacity.

Regarding Equilibrium Strike, me and you both seem to be in agreement that it needs changing. I don't necessarily disagree with your proposal, but I'd much rather streamline the ability to just always stun instead of keeping the %HP requirement. I wouldn't mind the damage being lowered and/or the cooldown being increased along with my stun duration nerf to keep the ability in line.

I don't mind Bladesurge's cooldown reset at all, considering you need the target to die. I have no issue with this spell at all, actually. It's a staple of her farming ability and since I've nerfed her early game with some of my changes, I wouldn't want to make this ability weaker.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

well, counterplay for her hiten style is the same as for all steroids: run away. except when your champion is really weak and slow and she allready has 3 items, most champs are actually able to somewhat disengage against her. just wait until hiten style is on like 1-2 seconds duration and then all-in her if you have the capability for it because you will then win the trade and probably even bait her to keep fighting you. same as with wuju style, burnout and all other similar abilities.

yeah after re-reading, we kinda say the same thing about equilibrium strike. well sure, lower the damage to 30+30perlevel and the stun to what i said (a bit smoother scaling and not as bad on lvl 1) and sure, remove the %health shit. tho increase cooldown to 10 then.

i think bladesurge refreshing to 1 second wouldnt actually hinder her anything. the only thing that it does is prevent this super abusive ult+Q minionwave jump where you can either dodge everything and run away hardcore because of the permanent speedup due to trintiy aswell as engaging across almost 2 screens in 1 second, same as yasuo but INSTANTLY because her Q has no travel time and not even 0.5 seconds cooldown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Snectoy_4

i really think resetting to 1 second wouldnt hurt her at all, it would just prevent abuse.

also, with all these changes, i would actually not even call it a nerf. lets say we shifted some of her passives power to her equilibrium strike by making it RELIABLE now ; ) its really just a quality of life change for her aswell as for her opponents. everyones happy now

Aheadatime1 votes

Regarding the Hiten Style, good Irelia's won't turn it on when you have the option of disengaging. If she double Q's and stuns you, she should have it on. If you get ganked and her jungler has CC to hold you down, she turns it on. Situations like this, the true damage is really frustrating. Thanks to her build path (bruiser w/ BoTrk usually), converting the true damage into magic damage won't gimp her damage output. It just takes away an aspect of her kit that wasn't needed anyway. The magic damage will sync well with trinity, and I buffed it a tad to compensate for MR.

I think I'd have play with the Q changes you propose to see how it feels on PBE or something. I've only played her ~10 times but the insta Q double dash really made her laning phase feel safe and provided interesting engage potential, which isn't something I wanted to take away from her.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

well, you can STILL be safe and engage with a 1 second cooldown. its just that an instant-one-screen gapcloser is a bit too much, even if its situational. or if you want to keep the full reset, please give it some sort of travel time like yasuo. no counterplay sucks, theres no reason to defend that.

and hiten style is strong, sure, but what exactly is your problem with it? i still dont get it. the damage isnt high enough to complain about it and other champions have even stronger steroids. her true damage gets "countered" by attackspeed slows and hp and she has no other big damage abilities or steroids. its really her only means of DPS.

sure, turning it into magic damage probably wont hurt her laning phase much, but she will have more trouble with tanks later on and that is a bad thing. she SHOULD be somewhat good against tanks. also, why would it sync well with trinity? right now, it has no scaling and it probably wouldnt get any scaling just because you make it magic damage.

and sure, if you turn it on at a good time, you deserve to get some benefit from it. if your opponent isnt brain-afk or afk for real, he will probably take 3-5 auto attacks which is 225-375 true damage. thats not THAT much for a 15-second cooldown ability, even tho its true damage. the real power of hiten style comes later when she has about 3 items and gets to attack more often in the duration.

my only real problem with hiten style is that its passive doesnt turn off as long as its on cooldown, because thats too much of a failsafe. if you waste your powerspike, you should have a powerdrop afterwards.

if we compare it to master yis wuju style: similar cooldown

master yi on max level has +10% total AD and 30+22%AD true damage. this is MUCH lower than irelias true damage before stacking up some items. later on it is as high as about 100 true damage on hit, tho you need to build for that too, which limits yi's buildpaths.

irelia has 13 hp restored per hit as passive and 75 true damage aswell as 26 health restored on hit while active, both of these have absolutely no scaling except with attackspeed, so irelia can build basically whatever she wants. now you can argue that its better than master yis wuju style because yi has an attackspeed steroid that synergizes with his wuju style and irelia has not, but thats really no reason to not turn off her passive while on cooldown.

okay, letd get back to topic: irelias problem isnt her insane true damage, its her lack of counterplay. this is taken due to the instantness of her Q and the unavoidable super long target stun.

this means, her stun needs to get some form of counterplay at least by having lower stun duration and more cooldown and her Q needs counterplay by either having 1 second cooldown or not being instant.

also, another argument i have vs magic damage on her hiten style: currently, building ninja tabi vs irelia is cool because most of her damage is physical and comes from auto attacks, tho if you want to have any chance to actually FIGHT with her, you need merc treads to not get taken out of the game by her stun forever. this means, even tho tabis are statistically better, you need the mercs 100% to even be able to play, but since they give magic resist, it would at the same time be a nice counter to her hiten style, which in return would nerf her even more.

Fórsa1 votes

Imo it's trinity problems. Not her own.

Aheadatime2 votes

I disagree. A champion with true damage, free sustain, CC, good damage, and a dash is a pretty loaded champion imo. If you nerf her numbers, she becomes meh. If you buff her numbers, she becomes ridiculous. It seems like removing some of this power altogether makes tuning what's leftover much easier. Trinity is a strong item, but there are plenty of bruisers who can build it/rush it and not be as much of a problem as Irelia.

motion1121 votes

Oh ok after reading all your comment I decide to make new one haha. I actualy play Ireli whenever i get chance to go top and dont get countered by Darius or some like that. And about nerfs: Pasiv-Ionian Fervor I think pasiv was ok until riot change deffensive masterys.Now U can play Irelia 9-21-0 and get passiv extremly buffed. So scaling pasiv 8% per champ should be fine. Q-Bladesurge Ok so 1s cd and some trevel time. First farming with this ability is insane but it burns a lot of mana.If u let irelia has 1s cd on it against champs like panth,Darius she would have much bigger problems dealing with becouse she has to use Q to farm and if that Q locks her for 1s its enough to kill her if your positioning is good.But also u should consider this: "If the target dies within a very short time (approx. 0.5 seconds) of performing Bladesurge, its cooldown will still refresh." And this is real buff especialy if u do it in rush for kill.I think if irelia had to kill target for refresh so no this 0.5 window and 0,5s travel time would be enough.So change: -Turn off that 0.5 cd refresh window -Travel time 0.5s W-Hiten Style Here Dmg and active should be unchanged becouse this is why Irelia is strong and dmg is not huge and specialy against tanks she needs that true dmg and sustain.But pasiv should be off when W is on cd. That would make easyer to kill her with ignite or some dmg over time becouse after she kills someone she cant heal on minions unles she buys some lifesteal.So: -Pasiv goes off when W goes on cd. E-Equilibrium Strike This ability is so hard to discuss for me becouse it has that condition of % healt which makes it harder to land stun becouse she cant Q-E on someone if same % of hp.Other thing is if nerf stun duration increase cd like on 10s but removing that % hp condition will actualy buffed her. U can notice that even now ppl buy cd on her becouse it works so than they will buy it even more and since she needs 2 items to become monster.I agree that would change her playstile but is it smart to remove hp condition on her,she has true dmg and sustain and she will stun someone at begining of teamfight if she doesnt die she will sustain with W and have probably more hp than others and still be able to stun.I think that this ability is balanced and shouldnt be changed at all specialy becouse 2s stun goes for after lvl 14 and she has to come close to stun and she cant walk to carrys. So yes u will lower her early/mid game potentiall but make her mid/late game even stronger. R-Transcendent Blades If riot nerf this ... I dont know than realy.

Also reasons for no nerfing irelia is that u realy need time to learn how to play her.Laning with her is easy but teamfights are hard becouse u cant engage with her(only if u can dash minion and stun carry) but that realy never happens in teamfights.

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