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Let's chat about a more impactful Udyr

Soulkius··4 votes·969 views

With the advent of passives having two effects, and generally being more complex nowadays. I feel we can do something a bit more interesting about the champion Udyr . Characteristically he's never had an ult but what if we gave his passive an ult built into it. Currently his passive at max stacks 3 grants 30% attack speed and 15 movespeed. Overall as a passive this is underwhelming as a result of him getting both he gets less than both Jax and Sivir.

What I propose is that Udyr gets a bonus tagged onto one of his 4 skills that goes on a one minute cooldown after his passive is fully stacked Proposed: Q: Tiger Stance attacks deal missing health damage for the duration of the attack speed boost W: Turtle Stance heals a percent of missing health and mana, or gains a shield based on max health E: Bear Stance gains unstoppable for the duration of the movespeed boost, so long as he moves at a champion R: Udyr unleashes an aoe damage nuke

Reasoning: Q: Being a flat damage amp with low scaling and a strong active makes this skill become less and less viable as games progress later and later. With the addition of a missing health amp on top of the bleed it makes it so for a 5 second window based on whatever the cooldown is decided for his passives proc he becomes a tank shredder.

W: The shield having no form of scaling makes it also decay in effectiveness as the game progresses. While the lifesteal is a very useful tool attached to the skill turtle stance is primarily used for its low cooldown rapid shields and not for prolonged fighting in most cases. A heal bundled onto this can let him get a sustain boost in the jungle or laning during downtimes, while a percentile max health shield opens up surprise tankiness.

E: 2 seconds of immunity to cc is pretty strong, but that immunity only being able to be used for engagements is a tool every Udyr will find he needs in fights. A certain engage that you can see coming and count as it only lasts 2 seconds bring a lot of play and counterplay into what would normally be, run at a champion get cc'd. Try again and pray

R: A nice aoe damage nuke is just a handy tool for lane clear, picking off low health kiting champs, and pumping out some aoe damage in teamfights, something Udyr completely lacks.

A 1 minute cooldown is fitting for something strong, but not game changing, though the empowered e can arguably be. This cooldown is also something easily subjectable to change, and should scale down with level.

Conclusion: Udyr with a lack of scaling inside his kit falls behind many other champions as the game goes on and on. With recent technological developments we can give him some high points that introduce more interesting play and counterplay to an otherwise linear champion. Lets give Udyr more options than run at your shit and slap it, or fail and cry.

Feel free to add comments, opinions, propose changes, I'd love to chat about this.

Edit: It's been brought to my attention that it activating off of his next skill when Udyr is at three stacks of passive does really mess with his jungle and with such a cooldown you'll probably never have it when you need it. The addition of vesitigial 4th, 5th, and 6th stacks and having it activate on his 7th stance swap in a relatively short time frame, should make it so it'll never truly go off in the jungle as camps would be cleared by then normally, and make it so that it becomes more easily available around level 4 onward as by then Udyr should have enough skills to cycle through approaching the lane to get it ready. This will also help to affirm it as an alternative ultimate as it won't be too easily available early on.

13 Comments

Lugg2 votes

I think Udyr is pretty impactful right now.

Soulkius1 votes

I feel like he falls off, and is far too vulnerable to what has consistently become the norm in higher levels of play. He's only gotten the spotlight a few times through abuse cases, and currently in this game his lack of scaling or anything game changing in his entire kit prevents him from seeing any professional play. The goal of this is to hopefully change that, by giving him access to tools he can build up and utilize.

Lugg1 votes

Honestly, he should fall off. He has a VERY strong early and mid game. He is also played in competitive play and I believe he has a winning record this year.

Thairn1 votes

To be honest, this all seems good and something that Udyr needs, but the passive having a 1 minute cooldown could mess with his jungling in a weird way, and it'd be hard to control when trying get it to proc when and on what he wants. I have a few suggestions.

  1. Remove the cooldown, but make the bonus effects weaker.
  2. Make him able to use multiple bonus effects as long as he keeps his passive at max stacks.
  3. Only put it on a cooldown if he stays in that "jungle Rage" mode too long. That way he can use the bonus affects he wants/needs consistently, but still be punished for using too much at once.
Rew7111 votes

As an Udyr main, I'd like this. Though people say Udyr is unstoppable, I'd beg to differ. He's only unstoppable if he does a E+Q maneuver.

With Udyr, his main is kind of split to his actual abilities, or that was what they use to be. Now, his Q only deals bonus damage as a passive and gets a AS + bleed effect on active. His W sort of stayed the same with a life steal every 4th hit but his shield got nerfed. His E got a major nerf with its change from every 4th hit stun to a 4 second stun (I'd honestly want a 5th hit stun over a 4 second but whatever) as a passive and a MS boost on active. His R still passively deals damage to multiple enemies, and on active it will deal damage to those close to udyr.

But....

He cannot insta-change as he use to (trust me, I played him a lot when I started). That's a huge nerf to udyr in general.

If he does get this passive of a passive, this is what I'd want.

[P] is active when game starts. Passive upgrades at levels 1, 7, and 13. Passive increases the power executed from 1 ability. Cool down for this passive is 90/80/70 seconds (cool down can be lowered with items and it goes down by 2 seconds for every transformation). Lastly, Udyr's next spell is FREE.

[P + Q] Udyr deals a bonus 50/100/150 (+10/20/30% AD)

[P +W] Udyr's shield, shields Udyr for a bonus 50/100/150 (+50% AP)

[P + E] Udyr gains bonus 5/10/15% MS for 0.5/1/1.5 bonus seconds.

[P + R] Udyr gains a bonus 5/10/15 (+25% AP) magic damage.

Soulkius1 votes

This issue with this kind of change is that it does nothing to change the linear gameplay Udyr currently has, its just a flat buff to all his skills as opposed to the availability of him doing more with good passive utilization, though the 7th skill being free does make a lot of sense.

Rew7111 votes

Udyr isn't an assassin or a tank. His doesn't even need a bonus since his kit already does that. I think that Udyr already has a lot and we shouldn't go as far as health % damage on Q, W healing both mana and health, his E being unstoppable, and his R dealing a AoE... Though I want Udyr not to be weak, this is over oppressive. These are assassin buffs... If I were to give Udyr a ultimate, I'd start small.

His Q would deal at max rank, 380 + 190% AD bleed effect over 2 seconds.

His W will shield him for 370 + 100% AP for 5 seconds.

His E will allow him to run 50% faster for 5 seconds.

His R will deal 70 + 50% AP magic damage to nearby enemies every second for 5 seconds.

And its a free spell.

Udyr will possibly have 300 AD by max rank, his Q will deal 950 AD bleed damage to the enemy.

At max rank, Udyr might have at least 50 AP, so his W will shield him for 420 damage.

At max rank, Udyr might have 400 MS, with his bonus, he'll fun for 573 MS for 5 seconds.

At max rank, same as W, Udyr can deal a total of 350 + 250 AP over 5 seconds. (475 magic damage in total)

This would be a fun buff to Udyr.

Soulkius1 votes

Udyr is either an assassin or a tank based on build path.

Maxing Q gives him incredible early game damage to squishy champions that falls off as the game goes on. The amplified Tiger Stance being a considerably weaker KogMaw W makes sense as a tool that helps him avoid being shoved out by tanks when he builds damage. The Tiger Stance bleed you put forward will be doing much more damage than the missing health procs because it is a one hit and done affair that bleeds them out for insane damage.

Implementing sustain onto the empowered Turtle Stance allows him to make plays you will see coming from the build up, and gives you and the opponent the option of can I take him after he heals X damage.

Simply adding even more move speed onto bear stance doesn't solve the problems Udyr faces as a champion. Giving him a 2 second window of cc immunity that you build up for does wonders to fix the problems he faces. It still gets counterplayed by mobility as a whole, but lets him fight back against cc kiting for that 2 second window.

The options you put forth do absolutely nothing to change Udyr , you only give him more of what he has and he will still fall short in what he lacks.

Your proposed amplified Tiger Stance is as you put it a 950 damage bleed at 300 AD. A squishy is going to instantly pop at 950 damage, a tank is going to shrug it off. There is intentionally nothing in the game that can one shot a champion and this Q will very easily do so with no counterplay as a point and click skill that you can prepare in a bush.

The amplified Turtle Stance as a bigger shield makes sense if it scaled off of base health, but it doesn't feel like an ultimate, it just feels like your regular old turtle stance only a big bigger.

As far as your proposed changes go 573 movespeed for 5 seconds rivals summoner 6 , yet it still does nothing to stop him from being heavily slowed, cc'd, or crippled within that time frame, sure he'll probably get away but it will do nothing to help him go in.

Once again simply adding more damage does nothing to change Udyr. the aoe nuke is pretty lackluster on my part as well in all honesty. A better empowered Phoenix Stance needs to be thought up.

These changes are not oppressive because its a visible build up you can see by clicking on the champ and probably even by visual cues if implemented. The longest of these buff lasting 5 seconds the lowest being the time it takes for his form to change. A more interesting Udyr doesn't come from just more of what he already has, a more interesting Udyr comes from giving him access to things he wouldn't normally be able to do.

Rew7111 votes

But why give such bonuses to him when his abilities do so much already?

His Q already passively gives bonus AD. First hit causes a tremendous bleed. Activation allows him to gain a lot of AS for 5 seconds.

His W allows Udyr to have free life steal. Activation gives Udyr a shield.

His E allows Udyr to stun a enemy. Activation allows Udyr a MS boost and crowd control for 5 seconds.

His R allows Udyr to deal damage to multiple enemies. Activation allows Udyr to deal bonus damage to those close to Udyr.

That's a lot for one kit. You're asking for:

[ultimateP+Q] Udyr deals % of enemies health.

[ultimateP+W] Udyr heals % health and mana.

[ultimateP+E] Udyr is unstoppable.

[ultimateP+R] Udyr sends out a nuke to one champion.

You need to understand that even if it did cost double the mana, this is OP and I wouldn't recommend Riot doing this.

  1. Udyr's Q would instakill squishies.
  2. Udyr's W has too much sustain.
  3. Udyr's E is just Olaf's ultimate.
  4. Udyr's R is a mage thing.

This stuff wouldn't help Udyr, it would just hurt how people play the game.

Soulkius1 votes

I agree the empowered phoenix stance is lackluster. I however disagree on the other points. The amplified Tiger stance will basically be acting like a kog'maw W that you have to spend a lot of time to build up for and will deal less damage since its based on missing health, something only tanks have plenty of. Empowered W being a heal will basically act like rengars empowered W with a MUCH longer cooldown and more powerful effect. 2 seconds of unstoppable so long as your running at a target is game changing, and its only 2 seconds. This will allow Udyr to engage into any team comp something he was notably lacking before as many of the common support, top laners, and mids all have powerful disengages in their kits.

Chespin20131 votes

don't give riot any ideas on udyr he's fine the way he is

KarKzz1 votes

Or just make his ability combo.

Exemple : Pheonix -> turtle : Udyr get an additional small shield for each pheonix wave while in turtle stance. Bear -> tigger : Udyr deal bonus damage on AA to the stunned target. ... But that may be a little complicated, since it add 3 potencial effect on every stance.

Crunchyfied1 votes

Udyr is impactful to the game and can win the game himself through splitpush. I mean hell, just look at Trick.

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