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Garen main, insights into rework.

RtClick·9/16/2019, 3:55:53 PM·6 votes·6,726 views

For the most part, I'm optimistic about the upcoming changes on Garen. I do however see a serious problem, and that is with the E spin count scaling solely from attack speed.         For starters, Garen will never utilize attack speed as well as other champions. And the spin count scaling wouldn't be enough to change that. He doesn't have an on hit effect like Teemo, Jax, Vayne, Gnar. He also doesn't have built in crit like tryn. And he can't utilize on hit effects on his E because it's too busted. And let's face it, Crit Garen is a meme, attack speed and Crit are probably two of the least desirable traits to try and build for on a champ like Garen. Nobody is or is going to be pulling that off with any consistency against people that are actually good at this game.       There's an abundance of CC and dashes in the game nowadays, and he's too easy to kite, and with the upcoming W change will be easier to kill.          So I'm guessing the change is more geared toward tri-force. And sure, I like building triforce. But realistically, he doesn't utilize triforce as well as a lot of other triforce users, because he can't constantly proc it like Fiora or Jax, or even Nasus. His cd on Q is too long and he can't proc it while spinning. Fiora would get off two or three times as many proc's vs Garen in a fight. Triforce is good on Garen though, but that's because it's a good item in general, but it does have stats that Garen needs. Health, cdr, movement speed, AD, the procs are ofcourse a bonus both in fights and for splitting. But, triforce isn't always the move. If I'm facing a Malphite top, with a tank jg on top of that, Garen needs to build Black Cleaver. Especially if his adc manages to get a lead. The move is to build BC, tank up, and try to apply the armor reduction in team fights. Being pigeon holed into building attack speed only to increase E spins is only going to make Garen less viable in high elo. Garen needs more ways to scale, more versatily, not less.           The good news is, is that the fix is simple. I would recommend to either change the spin count scaling to bonus AD, that way people can still efficiently utilize not only Triforce, but also Black Cleaver, Ghost blade, Deaths Dance, even Infinity Edge. Another possibility would be to just lower the scaling percentage given from attack speed, and add in a Bonus AD ratio.      If you read this, I very much appreciate it. Please consider this before moving forward with your proposed changes.

4 Comments

Romans VI XXIII9/17/2019, 2:19:57 AM3 votes

New Garen E actually does more damage WITHOUT any added AS. Getting attack speed just further increases it.

Also his passive change is a BUFF to almost all points of the game, think lvl 11-12 are slight nerfs.

Only thing I disagree with is the nerf to W.

I am not up to date on if new E still procs Conq, last I knew it did. If so that's a good direction for Garen, even tho Grasp mathematically is stronger for him in the early game.

Crescent Dusk9/16/2019, 7:36:23 PM2 votes

Because Garen can't use conqueror either, he MUST build BC or he deals absolutely garbagae damage against anyone with armor. The 25% armor debuff on his spin isn't anywhere close to enough and it's a horribly inferior version to what Darius just gains passively.

Triforce seems good only when the enemy team is made up of squishies with no tanks in it.

I only see him getting weaker with this rework because his damage is only gaining marginal buffs in niche scenarios whereas the part he struggles most in top lane, his survivability and lack of in combat recovery, is getting nerfs to accommodate these niche buffs.

Until Garen can get in-combat recovery for teamfighting and surviving early top lane cheese conqueror abusers, and his E is made to be less garbage taking forever to not be a dps loss early compare to autoattacks thanks to the damage penalty when fighting around minions (yet renekton and darius don't pay this ridiculous price on their Q's, and neither does aatrox), Garen will be screwed in top lane and still prefer mid lane match ups.

His passive is beyond worthless until way too late into the game.

Best way to rework Garen is to move the silence to his ult and give it a 475 range, buff his Q with a short leap like ekko that applies armor shred, and make it so that landing a certain amount of spin ticks on his opponents heals him for a % of his HP.

Change W so that activating it will also trigger his passive in combat for the next 10 seconds.

That way he loses a frequency of silence in exchange for better sustainability and his ult is improved by offering a strong silencing utility at key moments instead of just being a garbage version of darius/pyke/urgot ults.

ImTheJuggernauty9/16/2019, 6:51:15 PM1 votes

Hmmmm. What if spin count also scaled on bonus MS? This would make him synergize VERY well with items like phantom dancer or static shiv. Well, he might be too squshy still, but the bonus MS would be nice for not getting kited, and would mean that he'd get a nice bonus from every aspect of those items. But yeah the problems with that would be that he's both squishy and he wouldn't gain any AD. Perhaps, in synergy with the nerfs they gave to garen's W, they could also garen + 2/3/4 (per R rank) bonus armor and magic resist for every champ he executes with his ultimate.

Sire Hippington9/17/2019, 12:55:11 PM1 votes

I like the AS scaleing, his E will work just as well with ad as it did befor(still 10ticks with the same ad scaleing at 18 thx to base AS-growth) while opening up more options.

What i hate on the other hand is the ult change, as if we needed more truedamage in this games. Tanks already were fucked in teamfigths when they were villains, now they are always fucked. I also don't like the W nerfs, if he's pigeonholed into anything with the rework, then it's tanky builts cause they nerf his inate tankiness that enables more agressive builts. I'd prefer them leaving the ult and the W alone and see where the E changes alone land, and if he needs more power i'd rather see it given to his Q spped/silence or W or even his E ratio instead of truedamage on the ult.