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(Additional) Cassiopeia Feedback - @RiotRepertoire, Meddler, Cass mains, and others concerned

Romans 8·5/12/2016, 3:56:56 PM·4 votes·493 views

Dear Riot Repertoire, Cassiopeia mains, and others that the last mage update may concern,

So yesterday I played a few more games with the newly updated Cassiopeia. Instead of ranking Twin Fang, I prioritized Noxious Blast. But after the games and looking at her numbers, I realized that it was the Miasma that you wanted to focus on. Cassiopeia is interesting because so many people have different opinions on how she should be used/designed. I went back to the Dev Corner MYMU Cass thread and was surprised to see how many players wanted her to return to her poison/DOT focus- so as much as I dislike the new update Cass, I can’t really blame you for trying to please (seemingly) a large majority of the league community. Having played all the different Cass kits has been interesting. While I love the way her kit really syngerizes well together, it’s pretty cool the way that different players like the different aspects of her kit. I really liked the original/release kit, but at the same time, the Stashu/first-rework was also great, because I liked the fact that Twin Fang became of a focus of her kit than just a ‘filler’ move for her poisons, and required more skill to play (you couldn’t just deal damage by dumping loads of poison with Q and W and walk away safely while DOTs are working). When I played yesterday, I realized I could cs by just throwing Qs on the minion wave, akin to what I used to do in her original kit. 
   
    While I do appreciate the shift back towards damage through her poisons, I do think that there’s too much focus placed in her W. I understand that there are plans in the next patch update to enable her to cast the poison arc over terrain, but I personally, from experience, think that her original Miasma shape/dynamic is still much better suited for her kit- and many other Cass mains have voiced a similar opinion, and there are many reasons for that, as I’m sure you’ve heard already. With regards to that, I’m not sure if players would be able to capitalize effectively on the ability, given its high cooldown. I was wondering if there is any possibility to shift some of the power away from her Miasma towards Twin Fang (possibly restoring the 0.5s cooldown, but maybe lowering the punishment time for missing poisoned targets. I think even ranking down the cooldown from 0.9 to 0.5 would be a good idea) in a way that distributes power more evenly among the three abilities (maybe this way, all players can be satisfied)? I think that the slowdown % from Miasma can be lowered so that her ult slow can be increased, as it is extremely difficult to land. From the discussion board, it was stated that the intention was to shift her damage to be 50/50 poison vs twin fang, but it seems as if it has shifted towards the poisons more than twin fang- (70/30?) but I haven’t really calculated the numbers myself, so I don’t know for sure. 
One thing I don't understand about players is their aversion to Cassiopeia's 'spammy, machine-gune' use of her Twin Fang. ADC pretty much do the exact same thing, with the exact same finger, just on the other hand. A great Cass isn't just 'spamming' her E, she is fighting to kite around the enemy team to deal as much damage as she can. No one complains that ADC deal most of their damage through repeated auto attacks- so why is there such an aversion to unleashing poison damage through Twin Fang?
 

       Additionally, I would like to add some concerns regarding her itemization (and I think several other players have also pointed it out). Being a sustained damage DoT mage, she definitely needs magic penetration to counter the magic resist. Since she no longer has access to boots, she no longer can buy sorcerer’s shoes. This is on top of her need to buy at least one mana item. Of course, Rylais also a core item on her. Then, she also needs CDR to maximize her sustained damage potential through Twin Fang. Whereas some of these were more readily available to her much earlier in previous kits, her new rework kit now requires her to build up gold to achieve the stats to maximize her damage. In a sense, the last time-gated passive was shifted towards another area (her itemization). I personally am not a fan of her new passive, and would rather have access to boots and upgraded boots, but I was wondering if there have been any thoughts/plans towards this issue?

Thanks.

4 Comments

Ahegao Bunny5/12/2016, 7:29:06 PM1 votes

Nice someone who shares my opinion. I don't really know what i am supposed to do with her W. Even when i cast it at max range enemies are mostly out of the area before i can connect my Q. Since it doesn't slow/poison it's not really as good as the old W to initiate a fight. For defensive use the min range is far too high. I need it beneath or directly in front of me. Every hero with a jump starts jumping before my W even lands. I don't want it to be a faster instant spell either.

I don't really understand why people would want to be her poison her main dmg tool since E builds on Q/W, not the other way around. Q and W are for utility/poke and poison, E for dmg (this spell doesn't do anything else). Cassios original spells were well balanced and matched each other very fine. It had flaws but she never was completly helpless in any situation.

Furthermore... I don't really like that new E. When having enough mana you can just throw it in not caring weather enemies are poisoned or not and slow them with rylais forever... I liked the high risk, high reward Cassiopeia and it's not like she was the only caster who has to wait for cds when missing her spells.

The Queen Viper5/12/2016, 7:50:05 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans 8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7vJZB1z,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-12T15:56:56.785+0000)

... I think even ranking down the cooldown from 0.9 to 0.5 would be a good idea)

The CD hasn't been 0.9 for couple of days now... it's 0.75, after the hotfix which was applied on Monday.

The E CD is just fine, but it seems that your Rune pages for Cass are not.

[{quoted}](name=Romans 8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7vJZB1z,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-12T15:56:56.785+0000)

Additionally, I would like to add some concerns regarding her itemization (and I think several other players have also pointed it out). Being a sustained damage DoT mage, she definitely needs magic penetration to counter the magic resist. Since she no longer has access to boots, she no longer can buy sorcerer’s shoes.

We have room for Void Staff, and also for Liandry's which combos nicely with Rylai's.

[{quoted}](name=Romans 8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7vJZB1z,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-12T15:56:56.785+0000)

This is on top of her need to buy at least one mana item.

For mana management, I personally suggest Tear ... Catalyst can be good as well.

[{quoted}](name=Romans 8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7vJZB1z,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-12T15:56:56.785+0000)

Then, she also needs CDR to maximize her sustained damage potential through Twin Fang.

Morello alone, takes care of that (combined with runes + masteries ofc).

You don't necessarily need CDR in the early game to bring E CD down to 0.5 though... it's more for mid/late game.

[{quoted}](name=Romans 8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7vJZB1z,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-12T15:56:56.785+0000)

In a sense, the last time-gated passive was shifted towards another area (her itemization).

Indeed, and it's way better and more manageable now.

[{quoted}](name=Romans 8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7vJZB1z,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-12T15:56:56.785+0000)

but I was wondering if there have been any thoughts/plans towards this issue?

Just wait for the 6.10 bro... Cass is still WIP.

Romans 85/13/2016, 4:36:32 AM1 votes

My point is that she needs a lot of items, and it takes a long time to get enough gold to buy all those items. Before, she could have access to sorcerer's boots for early magic penetration. Now she has to wait to build void staff, on top of trying to build a mana regen item. I personally rush rylais after tear of the goddess. But those take a while, so how I don't get those other extra stats until later now.