I mean, its no secret or anything that they want to keep ADCs broken, they are ok with burst per second and sustain that Vladimir goes green with envy about, so my only question is... why?
Do they play ADC only? Their wifes? Kids? Lovers?
Why do they nerf every other role as soon as it just seems to be a threat to the ADC master race?
Is 5 ADCs their final goal?
Cosnirak20 votesThe real answer is because they're terrified of games being difficult to end. Without good ways to destroy buildings, baron, and dragons the game tends to become a sloppy kill fest at many ELOs where it's hard to tell what really even matters in regards to trying to end the game. Personally I'm not sure it's the problem Riot seems to think it is, but it's not something they should recklessly ignore either.
vgamedude4 votesThe real answer is because they're terrified of games being difficult to end. Without good ways to destroy buildings, baron, and dragons the game tends to become a sloppy kill fest at many ELOs where it's hard to tell what really even matters in regards to trying to end the game. Personally I'm not sure it's the problem Riot seems to think it is, but it's not something they should recklessly ignore either.
Easy fix. Add extra tower damage on melee and make ap effect tower damage / objectives more than now.
Cosnirak14 votesThat doesn't actually work as well as you'd think. The problem isn't just damage per hit to the towers, it's being able to hit them without dying (to champions, not the towers who barely tickle come late game). If the enemy team has good wave clear you have to either poke the towers or dive. Even mid and short ranged adcs have trouble with this at times.
When the rest is fairly even just stepping forward first to lock yourself into one auto animation is all it takes to lose a game deciding fight. Now imagine trying to do it with an average of say 50 less range, much slower autos, and never having RFC. That's what it's like for a lot of mages. And of course melee have it far worse.
Plus there's the lack of transparency, though that's a lesser issue in my opinion. But it would be weird for say a Lissandra to be doing as much dps to dragon with her autos as a Sivir.
It would also mean there's not a lot of reason to pick adcs. Sure you'd still want some physical damage carry but if Talon and Pantheon sieged as well as Draven there's not a lot of reason to ever pick Draven. Not saying there would be no reason, but lets just say every adc's play rate would suddenly and drastically decline.
ProfDrDeath2 votesIt would also mean there's not a lot of reason to pick adcs. Sure you'd still want some physical damage carry but if Talon and Pantheon sieged as well as Draven there's not a lot of reason to ever pick Draven. Not saying there would be no reason, but lets just say every adc's play rate would suddenly and drastically decline.
Not necessarily.
You don't just bring an ADC for the tower damage and objective damage. An additional, big aspect of the ADCs presence in the team comp is that they are the single most suited champion class/archetype for sharing XP. Safety from range is usually not dependent on XP as range doesn't scale, and auto-attack DPS is also hardly affected by XP (ADCs get about 40 AD from 17 level ups and crit is only available with gold). As such, they make the optimal gold-getting duo laner.
Good points, otherwise.
Cosnirak4 votesNot necessarily.
I agree as I made clear:
Not saying there would be no reason, but lets just say every adc's play rate would suddenly and drastically decline.
I agree that they're typically the best when it comes to sharing xp, but my own recent forays into playing mages as bot lane carries have made it pretty clear to me that the difference isn't all that big. A lot of mages get are more about their utility than their scaling dps and thus make pretty good candidates for this as well. It does vary from champ to champ, and some certainly do gain cc duration with spell ranks, but even then it's not usually a big deal as it's often just one spell that you can max before it makes a big difference anyways.
PopcornBunni3 votesThe real answer is because they're terrified of games being difficult to end. Without good ways to destroy buildings, baron, and dragons the game tends to become a sloppy kill fest at many ELOs where it's hard to tell what really even matters in regards to trying to end the game. Personally I'm not sure it's the problem Riot seems to think it is, but it's not something they should recklessly ignore either.
The thing is, outside of 
, no other ADC is building towershredding focused items. Crit and Shiv don't interact with structures, and there aren't exactly a lot of ADCs building full AD/AS with 
for objectives or even DoT.
are bursting people in a quarter of a second and the adc build from there is auxiliary with 
being the most popular picks.
If ADCs were doing their primary role of objective taking, there'd be a lot more 
, the latter of which is the only one that sees regular play, and even then is nothing compared to the play of
Cosnirak4 votesno other ADC is building towershredding focused items
Every AD and/or AS item is a tower shredding item when you have enough range. Sure crit doesn't work on towers, but no final item is just crit. The primary component is auto attack range on the champion. Add some ad and you have a pretty safe tower killer.
Like I said before, it's not all about the ability to kill a tower super fast, it's about the ability to do so without getting hit back much. And even then, adcs are also the best at dps on towers in most games with occasionally stuff like tryndamere and a couple melee tri-force users coming close or even surpassing at times. This is why the tower killing rune exists, to give others the ability to at least kill towers close to as fast as adcs, even if not very safely in a siege.
AleksaTeemo13 votesApparently you were not here during season 6-early season 7. Edit:Why am i downvoted?I just said they werent unbalanced and PRESS RIGHT CLICK=insta win.
Raoul78 votesAh you mean when ADCs were about the same power level as every other role, had solid counterplay and were actually not mandatory for every team comp and ADC-Mains acted like the game would die about it because they were no longer the main protagonist level hero of the match?
vgamedude46 votesAh you mean when ADCs were about the same power level as every other role, had solid counterplay and were actually not mandatory for every team comp and ADC-Mains acted like the game would die about it because they were no longer the main protagonist level hero of the match?
The funny thing is it's not even like they disappeared. They were still pretty much the only game in town in bot.
That tells you how "useless" they actually were.
Disembark33 votesThe "ADCin2k17" meme had NOTHING to do with ADCs being weak, but people don't realize that.
It's because jungle was so stupidly overtuned that junglers would be level 8 when bot lane was at level 5.
They were also free to point-and-click dive any lane they chose (Hec E, Vi ult, Lee wardhop-R, Rengar ult, Graves faceroll), and bot lane was ALWAYS 2 free kills if they so chose. It had nothing to do with ADCs not doing any damage, it was all about the fact that they were getting point-and-click 1-shot by junglers that could literally AFK farm to get 3-4 level leads on them.
Also meta supports were Zyra/Brand/Malz - which meant that they didn't really have the tools to peel off potential divers.
The meme spawned because the preseason + patch 7.1 was so long without any jungle nerfs, but wasn't really relevant after jungle XP got nerfed enough - hell even most ADC mains were fine after the BorK and jungle changes.
It was a complete lack of agency - because if your jungle decided to dive enemy bot, then game was free, if their jungler decided to dive you, then gg.
Lauchmelder13 votesNo offense, but then people shouldn't have named it ADCin2k17.
Spoofghoul17 votesyou are right they shouldn't have
it was bullshit and every adc player knew it
Disembark3 votesIt’s because ADCs were the target of most of these divers.
(As always) ADCs are the priority target in teamfights, so they’d be the first target for a Hec/Vi/Rengar - so you’d just see them getting 1-shot left and right.
cPXt3JHpf42 votesDuring that time people were just playing Ashe, jhin, and varus. Whatever team had the most members to dive bot lane pretty much F'ed bot over. If the ADC and support lost their turret that early it was pretty much game over.
AleksaTeemo2 votesAh you mean when ADCs were about the same power level as every other role, had solid counterplay and were actually not mandatory for every team comp and ADC-Mains acted like the game would die about it because they were no longer the main protagonist level hero of the match?
You do relaise they werent broken forever?People dont realise that.THEY ARE BROKEN NOW,i agree.They are absouloutly stupid.Kog maw presses W insta penta,vayne gets statik insta 3 shot,twitch 14 seconds long stealth etc.But they were not broken BEFORE.
ISLAMICWARRIOR9911 votesGuyz pls gibe upvotes I maek stupid baseless post bc I loze to adc last gaem - board rn
Taric the Gay10 votesEzreal is an ADC, so I really can't fault them for loving ADCs.
Sasogwa13 votes[{quoted}](name=Taric the Gay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YekH1iPB,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-02-08T15:17:17.190+0000)
Ezreal is an ADC, so I really can't fault them for loving ADCs.
Lauchmelder2 votesJesus christ this picture...
Taric the Gay4 votesMy romance story is way hotter. It won't be in theaters any time soon.
Infernape1 votesFifty Shades of Gay.
Taric the Gay1 votesFifty Shades of Gay.
I can guarantee you that there will be way more than 50 shades.
vgamedude8 votesWell meddler apparently mains adc
paisy9 votesHe mainly played support, he's playing adc now though
Raoul11 votesWell, what a suprise...
ZedUsanGovos8 votesCoincidence? Perhaps. Balanced? Depends whomst you ask. Hotel? Trivago.
Fairyfleur3 votesI mean it's pretty much been only Jinx this season, who isn't a particularly strong ADC and has a lot of love by the fanbase for her design and voice; it's kind of hard to condemn him as an adc main that buffs only adcs for that.
BestPudgeNA1 votesI mean it's pretty much been only Jinx this season, who isn't a particularly strong ADC and has a lot of love by the fanbase for her design and voice; it's kind of hard to condemn him as an adc main that buffs only adcs for that.
The changes to runes reforged benefited ADCs the most. They got the most free stats from the base stat buffs in 8.1 ADs basically all got 2 free 
s while for example mages got like 70% of a 
. Press then attack is just so much better then electrocute. The removal of flat Pen runes/glyphs benefits ADCs the most since they build the least tank stats and it weakens champs like Zed that specializing im killing ADC.
Also they buffed 
ChaddyFantome1 votesThe changes to runes reforged benefited ADCs the most. They got the most free stats from the base stat buffs in 8.1 ADs basically all got 2 free
Also they buffed
Nah. They benefit Supports the most (in terms of diversity). They benefit Tanks the most in terms of stats and ADC second tho.
DuskDaUmbreon8 votesLet me fix this for you:
Riot: "We've effectively balanced ADCs. They're still going to be mostly mandatory, because of the inherent properties of the class, which we are physically incapable of removing without completely deleting all ranged champions from the game, but they're rather balanced. We can look at this objectively, because their heals aren't too bad right now, they're honestly not too punishing even in solo lanes, and, with the exception of ADCs that are either building lethality or meant to burst, such as Jhin, they're generally not bursting harder than anyone else. We think that, as a class, while they could use a bit of work, to allow for a bit more freedom of choice, and specific ADCs could use some tuning to make them more fair or more fun, they're alright as an average whole right now."
Boards: "So you're saying that you'll never nerf the most broken class evah!!!???? HOW COULD YOU RITO GEMS I PAID $450 ON THIS AND YOU WON'T GUT AN ENTIRE CLASS FOR ME!? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
It sounds like an exaggeration, but it's honestly not much of one.
WiegrafOfValor5 votesThat's why we have 2 ADCs been buffed on PBE although everyone is asking for the top tier ADCs to be nerfed.
DuskDaUmbreon7 votesNo. Not even 1% of the community is asking for it. Literally not even 200 people on the NA boards want it. (And, keep in mind, people tend to go to the boards to complain. That's been proven time and time again, for countless boards).
And, hence, why I said that:
...specific ADCs could use some tuning to make them more fair or more fun
With "more fun" meaning either buffs, powershifts, or QoL changes.
Just because less than 200 people are bitching, doesn't mean that they're right. All it means is they're loud. And that they're kinda proving my point.
HarrowR3 votesOh finally someone is standing up for the poor adcs getting so much hate,im just sitting here wondering why does so many people hate adcs in general,youre telling me youre upset about Lucian? Caitlyn? Sivir? Jhin? Not all adcs are super safe or do crazy damage,also theres so many bronzies acting like every game they play the enemy team is supporting and peeling the fk out of the enemy adc like theyre diamond when in reality support is lux that roams and no one picks a tank while adc is free food for the enemy assassin in most cases
Ripple Overdrive6 voteshardstucks will always complain about other roles :D
CasterGilgamesh6 votesIMO the thing that makes adcs unfun is that all autos are targeted i wouldnt mind them doing so much damage if there damage wasnt point and click
Luxana Crowngard2 votesgame needs more blinds or dodge mechanics.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesit would be nice to have some support champions that could blind or help allies dodge attacks
Häxel3 votesAnd, where did Supports get nerfed? Oh, Ardent got nerfed, yea. I feel sory. 6-9 months AFTER IT GOT BUFFED THE HELL OUT OF IT. You know, sometiems adc get nerfs, sometimes supports, wait, who am i kidding, supports get far less hit by nerfs. The last 2,3 years Supports just got buffs to icnrease the Number of people queuing for Supports. Don't say 8.2 was a supportnerf. Every prosuppport will tell you that this was a buff again.
i am NOT saying Adcs are fine or should not be nerfed, maybe Itemization needs to be nerfed. But the actual powercreep are Supports and these are the ones that make some adcs broken. If Riot icnreases Championdiversity s nonmarksman get played bto i'm sure it will help a little but will nto chang ethat bot will be highest impact. Than mages will get boosted by supports, not marksman from tiem to time, the op class will still remain.
GinoSoldier1 votesI honestly won't be happy until the actual power ratio between a support and an ADC is 50/50. The lane can stay exactly as strong as it is right now, but supports spend on average 3-4k less gold per game on items compared to the people they babysit (not to mention spending some more than every other class). That's an easy -1000 gold to ADCs that could go straight into support items without breaking anything.
Häxel1 votesthey spend less gold but also get items that cost far less and with such strong itemeffects. I'm not gonna say it should be like toda where the carry gets all the gold adn does everything, is absicly the s+ champion where the support is like o class, but currently supportinfluence is to strong. I mean you can ask every high elo Streamer that the support directs the Lane and Game and not the Adc. it's not 50/50 in Challenger, it is 80 Support 20 Adc. this Number can be lower in lowelo, but to say you are weaker as the adc is far from reality. At it's worst Support adc is 50/50 lowelo and than ofcourse if you have a weak adc but the enemy adc and enemy support play both good they win ofcourse. Highelo? Well if the adc can at least farm (and they can otherwise they wouldn't eb there) support directs the game, there is no sign where you can show skill as an adc. Ad this is what Adc mains as well as Top and Midmains say if they get autofileld in one of the Botroles.
GinoSoldier2 votesSupports direct the lanes, true, but fall off radically in usefulness as the game progresses. I understand we can't straight buff supports for the early game, which is why i'm asking for a balance of the total gold spent between ADCs and Supports.
Reduce the absolute dominance/importance of ADCs late game, and shift some of that power into supports via better scaling items that also cost more. Making support items cost AND give more is closer to an early game nerf for a late game buff, really, but the balance team is meant to work that out.
Also; There are ways to give skillful play potential to ADCs, but doing that would probably require a monumental rework of how they output their damage. I've got ideas on that too.
Häxel1 voteswhy do you thinka dcs are so dominant lategame? cause they have impactfull supports. There are no longer assassins or Divers who can kill the adc if Supports like 
, 
, 
, 
, 
exist. What does Braum need to do as just using one autoattack to kill you as an assassin/bruiser? The Diver can't kill the adc if the support has with his 45%cdr a shield that he can give multiple times a fight.
If the adc walsk alone and gets killed by the fed kha'zix, thats one thing. But if the support is there, then there is no way that the adc dies. In league earlier days 1v2 could happen, a irelai would just kill threw the jananshield and kill the janna after that lategame. But now there is now ay that irelia can do that cause heal/shieldpower icnreased the effectiveness of shields massive adn the cdr janna gets makes her to even spam her abilitys: Shield, Slow, knockup, knockback, shield again.
GinoSoldier2 votesYour mind still revolves around the ADC being a primary target in this case. Balancing being done the way i suggest implies that the ADC will no longer be the forcefully highest priority target, and that depending on the situation, someone else entirely could be the no1 target to take out, including the support.
Lowering the maximum amount of gold spent by ADCs (aka lowering their late-game efficiency) brings back the marksman class back to what they should be; a source of sustained damage and not sustained burst. It also means that ADCs no longer have the means to obliterate assassins and bruisers on their own like they currently do. As a compensation, i would be keen to go back to reasonably higher lifesteal/self-sustain for the ADC class as a means to keep them viable, useful and more independent.
In a hypothetical scenario where an assassin would go for an ADC kill, in 1v1 it'd take a mere moment longer; don't fuck up or their lifesteal could potentially force you to retreat (remember they'd also deal lower damage), as opposed to the current 'don't fuck up or get annihilated. In a 1v2 against a support and ADC, the assassin would have to either bait the support's defenses and hit the unprotected target before scooting off or wait until they're down to dive to begin with.
The remaining issue would be tank supports, but in a 1v2 against an ADC and a tank, the best course of option would be to bait summoner spells and ults before retreating, as assassin ults have shorter cooldown and can lead to later opportunities. Or better yet, call up a friend and make it 2v2.
Häxel1 votesso your mind will not acept that supports are overpowered? i know it is ahrder to see cause the adc makes the damage and is int he spotlight, but the adc is the minor problem. Adcs did no damage early in season 7 and still they were unkillable (without lifestealitems). If you would just nerf adcs or riot realy increases botlane diversity how riot wants to do this midseason, for example mages, botlane would still be a broken role if supports shield/heal/protect the mages on bot adn still cc enemies. I mean you can't deny that supports got over the years just buffs. Realy just buffs. Sure from time to time one broken item got nerfed, but than another broken item that got included shines bright. Just watch last Beyond the rift With Imaqtpie, Scarra and Hashinshin and even if they share diffrent roles (bot, top, mid) and views of the game they could all agree that supports are to strong right now. Even Challengersupports can agree to that.
GinoSoldier2 votesThe issue is that as things are now, and the way the game is currently designed to look like, there are 4 sources of income, and one player, the support, on a lower economy. Of course supports 'look strong' compared to what they've historically been; they started out as an absolutely garbage role whose only single purpose was to ward.
What i want is 5 sources of income. So that when i look at the endgame, every player in a good match has gained about the same amount of gold, and spent about the same amount for their endgame build; aka putting all players on a similar standpoint in terms of stats bought in order to allow proper balance.
The general perception is that supports should be stat-wise weaker than their teammates. I highly disagree. As far as i'm concerned, pretty much regardless of circumstances, supports have no chance whatsoever in most if not all 1v1s assuming they build the items you'd expect them to and not 'support lux lol'. Being able to buff and protect teammates should in no way mean this level of weakness alone.
And yes, some aspects, namely shielding and healing would become overbearing, that is why the individual values on champion kits could be nerfed independently as needed, instead of gimping the entire class of any worthwhile power scaling.
I don't want Supports to become gods. I want botlane tank supps to equal toplane and jungle tanks, and i want enchanters to be able to beat mages if played properly, using their entire kit. Right now, that's impossible, which is why i want change.
Häxel1 votesso right now Supports get gold for nothing. Like every lane and jungler has to farm and supports literaly do nothing for gold beside hitting the enemy. And for this they get a lot, less as farming but for the effort more as compared you get for the effort of farming. Secondly, you want enchancters, who can entchant allies or cc enemes, to also be able to kill, and this goes just by outdamaging them, amges. What can mages do beside killing? Why would pick anyone mages if entchanters could do the same damage and entchant? And you want botlane tank supports to tank equaly as toplanetanks, that to be fair they already doing. Like what can melt threw an alistar Ult? Or how Tanky you believe Tahm, Braum, Taric and Leona are with their abilitys and max cdr to spam their shields. And at the same time they have equaly engage, disengage, cc or even cc chains. So bottanks do the same thign equaly beside maybe having little less basedamage, but youw ant them tankier? How is this fair if they literaly have to do nothing ingame for gold beside hitting few times their relicexecute while top and jungle has to farm (jungle another strong role atm with the long campspawns there you can do full clear with max health and than wait minutes on a gank). You want a 5 source of goldincome. What you want, clearing somethign for wards? thats the only thing i could come up. Even if Support would be a disgraceful role, it needs a role who works for vision. Right now i say supports already have a good sort of income and it is by doing nothing. Even if endscreen shows less gold as others, effectifvly they got more gold by doing nothing. And even if they ahve bought less items 6 toplaneitems are not worth the impact of 3 supportitems. Every Supportitem is such a huge powerspike compared to nothing in league. Maybe trintiy, but that costs so much that even with farming, support should be get his first item that together with what the adc got it outshines the toplaner pretty fast. He has a chance for 2 misn ingame to kill the botlane or the trintiypowerspike is away cause adc and support got farther in their builds. Sounds complicated, sounds maybe realy negative, but that is how it is.
CasterGilgamesh1 votessupports are a class not allowed to farm and the dont get as much EXP like other lanes so of course they need ways to gold gen
CasterGilgamesh1 voteswhat you mean supports dont get alot of nerfs? is one of the most nerfed champios in the game so far and every time supports go to other lanes they get quickly nerfed to be only support
