I Blame Patch 3.9!

Zullar · 2018-05-29T15:20:28.224Z

People are upset the game determined by the worst player, not the best? The jungler's best option is typically to gank for your winning lanes and not help your losing lanes? Why? Patch 3.9 -Death Streak gold values have been reworked to be in line with pre-Season 3 values. Examples: -A player killed three times in a row without resetting is now worth 220 gold (previously 182 gold) -A player killed six times in a row without resetting is now worth 112 gold (previously 62 gold) -Minimum kill value of a champion increased to 50 gold (previously 15 gold) Lets say you've ganked the top laner 3 times and he's 0/3. Your best option is typically to gank him a 4th time since you almost get full gold (220). It's also low risk because you are safe from countergank... even if the enemy jungler shows up you'll win the 2v2 because your laner is more fed. This makes the game unfun for the guy who's now been killed 4 times due to repeated ganks. It also makes the game unfun for the other lanes who may be doing OK until the 4/0 super fed guy spills over into their lane and kills them. Maybe revisit this? I think after 2 or 3 deaths the gold should drop off more. Also you could add a small bounty after just 1 kill. Doing a combination of these 2 things would make the jungler at least think before he decides to gank for his winnning lane, or try and help his losing lane. Instead of always repeated ganking for his winning lane. Edit: As some have pointed out we definitely don't want Proxy Singed back! That's where after dying a few times a champs best option was just to run strait to the nexus killing some creeps on the way and drawing several members of the other team. If they managed to kill you they only got a small amount of gold and it was still worth it.

VvVVvVMay 29, 20183 votes

Please explain. Because I dont see how what was posted has anything to do with Singed. And as far as proxying goes i've never seen a Singed not try to proxy, thats what they all do. Thats like all they do.

five oh tree May 29, 201819 votes

Because before these changes singed would be killed til he was literally worth a caster minion and just keep proxying, and it worked. proxying 3 waves isn't proxy singed. Proxying 30 waves is proxy singed.

Smithy2QMay 29, 201815 votes

This. Singed would stand in your base, run around, have all the minions follow him, the enemy team chases him, takes him down ... and get 15 gold. Meanwhile Singed has just farmed three waves and his team does Baron.

I think there's an argument for making feeding be worth less gold, but you can't just revert it.

Now, I remember reading something somewhere about how certain amounts of farming could reset your kill bounty, so proxy Singed in particular would not be an issue. I don't remember if that was just a fan proposal or if it ever became a thing, but that's another lever you can turn.

HalcyonDwellerMay 29, 20186 votes

Fan proposal or not, I really like that idea. Gold earned is the origin of snowballing anyway, so only basing the gold earnings from kills off of kill/death records is silly.

Honestly it might also be interesting to enable people to steal a % of the gold from their opponent when they kill that opponent. It would be pretty harsh, but it would encourage people to not sit on gold and it would enable you to punish opponents who stay and farm but never fight. It makes them into targets.

ZullarMay 29, 20184 votes

I really like this idea. Something like you get a bigger bounty based on gold earned (kills/assists... possibly creeps/towers/passive gold). Hit Tab and see every bodies bounties so you know who's juicy and worth killing :P. Proxy Singed with 0 kills and 10 deaths isn't worth 15gold if he manages to farm 60 creeps before dying.

Completely agree with Smith2Q as well. We don't want proxy singed back. So somewhere in-between where we are now and where proxy Singed existed might be a good spot.

But as it is right now... if one solo lane is losing at 0/1 and your other solo lane is winning at 1/0... then both opposing laners are worth 300g (I think?). So your decision is almost always to gank for your winning lane against their losing lane because you get the same 300g either way... and it's much safer to gank your winning lane in the case of countergank. But if gold shifted immediately and the ganking an 0/1 guy only gave 225g, but ganking a 1/0 guy gave 375g (making up numbers as an example) then the decision as a jungler just became much more interesting on which lane to gank.

HalcyonDwellerMay 29, 20183 votes

If getting killed after farming could result in the proxy singed actually losing his gold that he farmed,then it absolutely would prevent proxying.

Also yes, I like your suggestions and ideas here! +1

Furious DelishaMay 30, 20181 votes

Soooooo copy Dota 2

Riot would never haha

Attticus FinchMay 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Honestly it might also be interesting to enable people to steal a % of the gold from their opponent when they kill that opponent. It would be pretty harsh, but it would encourage people to not sit on gold and it would enable you to punish opponents who stay and farm but never fight. It makes them into targets.

This would make pro play even more shit then it already is. There is already a huge problem in high level play of the teams playing too safe. Death needs to be LESS punishing in this game, not MORE snowbally.

HalcyonDwellerMay 29, 20181 votes

Ah alright, fair points.

5050BSMay 30, 20181 votes

100%

If Someone dies before lvl 4 when they get back to lane the enemy laner is 1-2 lvls over them. That is HUGE early game.

Riot needs to make deaths early way less impactful. If they want a "Team" game then it should be team fights that make or brake.

Maybe make it so Solo kill gold is more per enemy champ is near your kill. If I 1v3 I should get more gold. It was a harder fight.

If I 3v1 gank we should get LESS gold because sheesh it was 3v1.

5v5 is where you want gold to be made. If a team fight happens and it ends with 2 for 3 the team that got three should have a good amount of gold more. It would also reward kill streaks. Penta kill means good gold to that player.

Now if the fights were a bunch of 4v1's then it would be a lot less gold for the killers because it was a lot less work.

Radiant WukongMay 30, 20181 votes

For Honor?

EkyonKunMay 29, 20184 votes

I believe every 1000 gold farmed by minions puts you one wrung up on the ladder if your're worth less than standard kill gold.

Found it: "Champions with negative tiers also have their tier increased by 1 for each Gold 1000 earned by killing minions / monsters or by earning an assist."

SpencerMay 29, 20182 votes

That's really not a terrible idea.

You get that 0/6/0 Vayne that just splits off while her team holds on defense and actually becomes relevant again due to farming her ass off. She should probably be worth more than 0/6.

I am 12May 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This. Singed would stand in your base, run around, have all the minions follow him, the enemy team chases him, takes him down ... and get 15 gold. Meanwhile Singed has just farmed three waves and his team does Baron.

I think there's an argument for making feeding be worth less gold, but you can't just revert it.

Now, I remember reading something somewhere about how certain amounts of farming could reset your kill bounty, so proxy Singed in particular would not be an issue. I don't remember if that was just a fan proposal or if it ever became a thing, but that's another lever you can turn.

In teamfights he just ran in and died and dealt free damage without the enemy team getting anything out of it

KarunamonMay 29, 20181 votes

Couldn't that have just as easily been fixed by adjusting how Q worked? Either by making it cost more, or having it do less damage to minions and more to champs? Or making CS a factor of bounties?

Still not sure how okay I am with invalidating an entire player-devised strategy by godhanding, even if it is cancerous.

If the Riot of 2018 had been in charge in the earliest days, there would be no jungle position by some change meant to invalidate the strategy and we'd still be doing duo tops.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 30, 20181 votes

Because that'd fuck him over when he wasn't proxying.

flibitydooMay 29, 20181 votes

The thing is, is that I'm pretty certain the patch that actually killed proxy singed was the one where they made it so that getting CS would slowly reset your death streak.

So if proxy singed was farming mad to stay relevant and still dying, he would continue to donate 300g because (and this isn't the actual number) every like 15 minions he killed would reset his bounty to 300.

RIP Tahm KenchMay 29, 20182 votes

But there was another change added in somewhere along the patch cycle too - killing minions resets gold value at some point

Great OzymandiusMay 30, 20182 votes

Yes, this would be a buff to proxy singed, but just nerf him if this is the case. Singed can't hold the game hostage.

I Blame Patch 3.9!

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