Boards›Gameplay

How do I catch riven and counterplay Brand while playing Tahm kench?

Tahminatrix ··1 votes·482 views

As the title says, I have been able to trade with Riven multiple times provided that she doesnt bully me out of lane early and then instakill me before I can auto auto auto q auto auto w q

But when I out trade her she just spams abilities to get away even though I ccd her? Now given that I cant get 3 stacks on her without her choosing to go all in or having the iq of a dead horse.....what do i do to catch up to her again? She has mobility which is good for dodging but when she doesnt and I land my q and slow her she still moves really fast....Do I get rylai`s and follow up with a minion spit to keep her slowed longer?

Deadmans plate helped but it didnt seem like enough considering I lose all my speed as soon as I auto attack her and she is resistant to slows so...what do i do?

I also have trouble dueling Brand ...it should be easy considering he has large amounts of aoe dmg and TahmKench is entirely single target...but what happens is as soon as i get near him he sets me on fire with his unavoidable spell then stuns me with a skillshot which somehow stuns as ...if not longer then my q when i have 3 stacks...then proceeds to chunk down my health with his aoe spell then passive....

The weirdest part is his stun seems to have nearly as low cd as my q (I learned that the hardway after baiting it then going in) which doesnt make sense considering he has better aoe dmg...is there a way I can avoid getting set on fire while also getting into melee range? I looked into getting banshee`s veil or what it is now but the shield doesnt seem to do well enough considering I have to stop in the first place just to slow him and catch up to him..giving him plenty of time for either his e to go off cooldown again..decide to through ult on me...or use his small aoe which I have a good chance at dodging...

But then again it doesnt even seem like getting into melee range of Brand is very benefical anyway just due ot the fact that he can stun me faster then I can stun him and then chunk me for a large portion of my health while running away....

Merc treads seems to help against both Riven and Brand but against brand it only seems to lower his stun duration to the same as mine...which again is strange I dont see brand having to go into melee range and auto attacking me 2-3 times or landing 2-3 single target skillshots.

14 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

hmm you dont...

Death by Glamour1 votes

You don't she's designed for short quick trades

Tahminatrix 1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRwnOAdN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-05T01:53:02.745+0000)

You don't she's designed for short quick trades

So she is an assassin? ...Makes sense since she one shots people...and aoe assassins are a thing TalonZed Fizz Diana Kassadin ...shes pretty much like Rengar since she is going down the more bruiser-ish route.

So how do i deal with brand ? he gets % magic dmg in his kit that goes in an aoe ...usually doing more overall dmg then TahmKench W

I tried stacking magic resist against him but he still chunked me with voidstaff...and building hp didnt seem to help either. Although item 3194 does wonders against his Passive.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRwnOAdN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-05T01:55:13.783+0000)

So she is an assassin? ...Makes sense since she one shots people...and aoe assassins are a thing TalonZed Fizz Diana Kassadin ...shes pretty much like Rengar since she is going down the more bruiser-ish route.

So how do i deal with brand ? he gets % magic dmg in his kit that goes in an aoe ...usually doing more overall dmg then TahmKench W

I tried stacking magic resist against him but he still chunked me with voidstaff...and building hp didnt seem to help either. Although item 3194 does wonders against his Passive.

Assassins aren't designed for short, quick trades. Skirmishers are. Assassins are designed to all in and kill you and then get back out.

Aside from that, it really shouldn't be that hard to keep Riven from getting away(she is also not resistant to slows, they hurt her SEVERELY. It's part of why Tryndamere can catch a Riven without her ever getting away). If you're trying to go for an AP build you're playing wrong vs her though. Riven has a lot of short term damage and she's gonna be building a cleaver to lower your armor while also building damage to burst you. Tahm Kench top lane generally builds a trinity force into tank build, so you should be able to get 3 autos on her quickly. Tahm Kench is one of the most annoying champions just because of his passive staying up the entire time. He can use his tongue lash, and it doesn't consume the stacks for the stun, he can just use it again. He can eat you, and you still have stacks up. It's really impossible to get away from him once he has stacks. The only way a Riven could get away is MAYBE if she had merc treads or swifties. If you're talking about support Tahm Kench, you shouldn't be soloing her anyways. You're behind on items compared to her(or should be) and you shouldn't expect to solo a champ who has a solo laner's worth of gold, even if you are Tahm Kench.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

{quoted}

Assassins aren't designed for short, quick trades. Skirmishers are. Assassins are designed to all in and kill you and then get back out.

Aside from that, it really shouldn't be that hard to keep Riven from getting away(she is also not resistant to slows, they hurt her SEVERELY. It's part of why Tryndamere can catch a Riven without her ever getting away). If you're trying to go for an AP build you're playing wrong vs her though. Riven has a lot of short term damage and she's gonna be building a cleaver to lower your armor while also building damage to burst you. Tahm Kench top lane generally builds a trinity force into tank build, so you should be able to get 3 autos on her quickly. Tahm Kench is one of the most annoying champions just because of his passive staying up the entire time. He can use his tongue lash, and it doesn't consume the stacks for the stun, he can just use it again. He can eat you, and you still have stacks up. It's really impossible to get away from him once he has stacks. The only way a Riven could get away is MAYBE if she had merc treads or swifties. If you're talking about support Tahm Kench, you shouldn't be soloing her anyways. You're behind on items compared to her(or should be) and you shouldn't expect to solo a champ who has a solo laner's worth of gold, even if you are Tahm Kench.

I was playing tahm kench top, altho sometimes its me trying to duel brand support as tahm kench support.

Also you lose stacks when he eats you.....

And riven is resistant to slows just not immune, this is because of her q and e.

Tryndamere has a slow AND some mobility which helps him catch Riven, TahmKench only has a slow/situational stun along with out of combat mobility for an ult. which roots/stuns him in place after he uses it unlike ryze/shen ult or tryndamere`s gap closer

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRwnOAdN,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-09T18:57:50.972+0000)

I was playing tahm kench top, altho sometimes its me trying to duel brand support as tahm kench support.

Also you lose stacks when he eats you.....

And riven is resistant to slows just not immune, this is because of her q and e.

Tryndamere has a slow AND some mobility which helps him catch Riven, TahmKench only has a slow/situational stun along with out of combat mobility for an ult. which roots/stuns him in place after he uses it unlike ryze/shen ult or tryndamere`s gap closer

Most Tahm Kenches I've played against have stunned me twice before devouring me. Riven isn't resistant to slows btw. The dashes go the same distance but you're still slowed. Perhaps you're playing wrong against her by trying to devour her instantly after 3 stacks. You can stun multiple times(something I found really annoying with Tahm since the stacks don't go away after a stun and you can just do it again in 3.6 seconds with 40% CDR and most get trinity force at least).

Tahminatrix 1 votes

{quoted}

Assassins aren't designed for short, quick trades. Skirmishers are. Assassins are designed to all in and kill you and then get back out.

Aside from that, it really shouldn't be that hard to keep Riven from getting away(she is also not resistant to slows, they hurt her SEVERELY. It's part of why Tryndamere can catch a Riven without her ever getting away). If you're trying to go for an AP build you're playing wrong vs her though. Riven has a lot of short term damage and she's gonna be building a cleaver to lower your armor while also building damage to burst you. Tahm Kench top lane generally builds a trinity force into tank build, so you should be able to get 3 autos on her quickly. Tahm Kench is one of the most annoying champions just because of his passive staying up the entire time. He can use his tongue lash, and it doesn't consume the stacks for the stun, he can just use it again. He can eat you, and you still have stacks up. It's really impossible to get away from him once he has stacks. The only way a Riven could get away is MAYBE if she had merc treads or swifties. If you're talking about support Tahm Kench, you shouldn't be soloing her anyways. You're behind on items compared to her(or should be) and you shouldn't expect to solo a champ who has a solo laner's worth of gold, even if you are Tahm Kench.

Also riven is playable in the bloodmoon gamemode so she is close enough to an assassin.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRwnOAdN,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-18T21:55:36.960+0000)

Also riven is playable in the bloodmoon gamemode so she is close enough to an assassin.

So I guess that means Kennen and Pantheon are assassins too. Riot specifically said they added mostly assassins as well as a few other champions because of their play pattern(assassins want right up in your face and are squishy).

Tahminatrix 1 votes

{quoted}

So I guess that means Kennen and Pantheon are assassins too. Riot specifically said they added mostly assassins as well as a few other champions because of their play pattern(assassins want right up in your face and are squishy).

Pantheon is a poor counter example since he has plenty of burst damage / popping potential along with a small gap closer..

As for kennen..I suppose she has a bit of mobility? she isnt resistant to slows no gap closer and she is ranged ...although..alot of people consider ahri to be a ranged assassin but ahri has a gap closer not a speed buff

Idk i guess it depends on how you build kennen.

meowwow71 votes

with brand the only things that can help are mr and possibly item 3194 due to his passive doing %hp magic damage over time

Tahminatrix 1 votes

{quoted}

with brand the only things that can help are mr and possibly item 3194 due to his passive doing %hp magic damage over time

Any other items to help against him? Voidstaff seems to be letting him chunk me. I tried going Frozen mallet for the hp and slow but he still just stuns me and walks away while barely being scratched despite me flashing onto him...

KoKoboto1 votes

You should be able to kill both of them every time if you get melee range. Dodge Brand Q or at least use your Q at the same time he does so he can't get much distance off you if you get stunned.

Just eat Riven. Should beat her always unless she gets insane lifesteal or something.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

{quoted}

You should be able to kill both of them every time if you get melee range. Dodge Brand Q or at least use your Q at the same time he does so he can't get much distance off you if you get stunned.

Just eat Riven. Should beat her always unless she gets insane lifesteal or something.

I have been doing that, brands stun lasts about as long as tahm kenchs slow, also you cant really dodge his q at melee range.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

No i get 3 stacks then try to q then auto auto and then eat her but then she dashes away while slowed.... Riven can time her dashes perfectly so she does not feel the slow and continues moving faster then normal for its duration.

Read the initial post....I clearly do not eat her as soon as i get 3 stacks ...I already showed the combo I normally use on her which helps me kill her but she gets away and note that I cant beat her before lvl 7 or higher

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Tahminatrix

Is last whisper even an essential item against tanks?
Gameplay95 comments
56
votes
Reminder that Death`s dance reduces lifesteal / spell vamp on you by a third.
Gameplay51 comments
24
votes
Possible upcoming tahm kench changes are toxic.
Gameplay5 comments
12
votes
These champion/player interactions make tank tahm kench depressing.
Gameplay1 comments
6
votes
Doing a survey on the Tahm kench changes because riot wont.
Gameplay6 comments
4
votes
Should we get some sort of changes to black cleaver?
Gameplay13 comments
4
votes