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There Shouldn't be Plat Players in Promos to Gold

Mandaari··79 votes·5,706 views

I've been playing for a long time and decided I to start playing ranked on Saturday to get the Victorious Sivir skin. I'm probably going to play better than new players, so my MMR is higher and I play against higher people. If you're playing against people whose MMR doesn't match your current ranking then you should - and are - rewarded/penalized more in terms of LP.

This makes zero sense for promos though.

Like, my opponents are a full tier above what I'm playing to advance to and there's not really an extra reward for it in terms of those few matches. There's the chance you can jump multiple divisions if you're doing exceptionally well, which I'm not sure happens on tier promos. It just seems... odd... to have promos include opponents significantly-ish higher than the division you're advancing to.

Then again the whole ranking system is odd.

Edit:

If you plan to climb, you're going to need to beat them anyway. Everyone else has to go through it too.

Just because you want the season rewards doesn't mean you should be given easy games.

I never said I wanted easy games, nor did I say this was about my personal experience. For anyone, not just me, it makes no sense to play through promos against a higher average MMR than the division you're being promoted to. What if someone loses their promos to gold because they played against plat players? Does that really mean they don't deserve to get to gold?

And no, not everybody goes through the same experience. If you're doing very well you're going to play against plat players in promos to gold. If you're doing just well then you're going to play against gold players in your promos to gold. Notice something wrong here? Both players are playing against the system's best guess at equal opponents. Wait... you're telling me that because I'm doing so well that I have to prove I can beat opponents a full tier above what my only-ok counterpart is playing against in order to advance to the same tier? That's utter bullshit right there.

62 Comments

DaspinnyX230 votes

I honestly think MMR needs to go away in ranked. If I am Silver 5 then I should be playing against other Silver 4/5 players. If I'm not meant to be in that division then I will rank up and play against proper opponents. I don't see the point in the redundant system. Right now I am stuck at Silver 5 because I have an MMR higher than most Silver 5 players so I get matched up against higher to match but my team mates aren't at my MMR so they aren't as good. Im my last promo I had a Bronze 2 on my team and a silver 2 on the other. Like WTF riot?

XaviorZeroBlazer3 votes

i once in silver 4 and had a bronze 5 on my team. Bronze 1 or 2 I can understand but bronze 5 is just way beneath me.

Salidfingers2 votes

Duo Q,

XaviorZeroBlazer2 votes

i realize that but still no one on my team was above silver 4, a b5 and s4 duo shouldn't have been matched with me

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

Was the majority of the team silver? MMR can do weird stuff, but it is also useful a great deal of the time (I was bronze 1 vs gold 5 players on my second account this season bc we both had silver MMR)

XaviorZeroBlazer1 votes

other team was b1 and up, and yeah we got rolled hard that game. Braum starting item 3301 it was hell

Kosm1K6 votes

I once had an s2 player in my gold 3 promos to g2. Needless to say he fed 1/10 before 20 min and then raged at the team. Either MMR or divisions have got to go, because they really are redundant.

Really though, the reasons they have mmr is because of smurfs making the game unfun while they do their "bronze to diamond" challenges that they always do

Mandaari2 votes

They're not redundant, they're counterproductive.

Hunts and Dips1 votes

Your mmr is actually below the average for your division. Low elo ego syndrome kek

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

The problem is that if they do this then they have to drop people ranks much easier than they do now and it just reverts to the days when people just had their ELO/MMR number as their ranked ladder score. You can brute force yourself to at least one division higher than you belong if you play a bunch of games until you hit a lucky streak. I hit gold in season 3 that way, I was a silver 2 or silver 1 player, maybe I was gold 5 on 1 or 2 champions that didn't play multiple roles, but I was definitely not a gold player. It would have been unfair for me to be in gold w/ the way I played and not drop (so MMR was massively needed for my teammates, and for me to keep playing ranked bc if I made it to gold and was gonna drop bc I couldn't keep it, I just would try to never play the account in ranked and play a second one).

Additionally, I hit gold on this account after climbing from bronze this season (was so out of practice after quitting during season 4) and have a second one from leveling w/ a friend. I was mid/high silver mmr before I left bronze 1 on the other account and was vs some gold 5s that dropped back to silver MMR. Unless it's way easier to climb and drop (and honestly the variance of that would suck a lot, going up or down multiple divisions/full tiers when you go on a good/bad streak) it would be really shitty for ranked to take a bronze player who crushes a low gold player in lane (both silver mmr) and then put them both in their rank instead of MMR. The bronze would crush every bronze player being at closer to gold level skill, and the gold would lose lane every single game, or possibly only be able to play one or two champs w/out ruining the game for their team (which is less of an issue w/ new ranked, but still an issue if bans or team comp make the pick unavailable/bad).

48983507DEL13 votes

It's not even that your teammates are lower, it's that you're getting put against relatively even skill level opponents that are a higher rank than you are, which means that if you truly are at an equal skill level, you will win approximately 50% of your games, but remain at the same low level despite playing against higher level players. The issue is that your rank no longer represents your skill level because you aren't playing against people in the same division as you to begin with. In terms of clarity, they should stick to LP or MMR, not both.

Very Hard Engage18 votes

yup, MMR is more sensitive to prevent snowballs/outliars, but that just means the LP system is that much worse. and thats a shame because thats the system that hands out rewards at the end of season.

10/10 rating systems need changing.

Magical Beasts6 votes

Last week I was in my promo to G5, and I was duo with my friend who is silver 3. I understand that promo will be hard since a lot of my friends have been telling me their horrible experiences, but again, I was thinking what can be the worse case? Unsuccessful promo? Not a big deal for me, I am a patient person who don't mind do multiple promo if necessary.

However, on the second game of my promo, I met 1 PLAT 3 player + 4 GOLD players on the other team. and mine are 1 GOLD player + 4 Silver players. NO IDEA HOW THAT HAPPENED. Got crushed like I and my entire team are retards (my Jinx which I was really good at, got slaughtered by their plat Zed 14 TIMES in the first 25 mins, and I can do nothing but dying), which really gives me a hard mood to continue playing league. I am not even sure that I should call mid and adc (my favorate rolls) anymore.

So I just want to beg RIOT fix the ranking system to prevent such game from happening anymore, PLEASE!

ZzEslIolZQ5 votes

Tie rewards to tiers, tie matchmaking to mmr.

Riot logic

Aboylova925 votes

I honestly gave up trying to understand the ranked system. I've had games where I've been G2, with silver ones on my team and plats on the other. Like...how is that even fair for ANY of the players involved? Three different tiers of players that in no way should be in each others games. There are some very basic things that should be implemented though, as in golds play with golds, silvers with silvers, ect.

I'm trying to make it to Plat this season, and honestly most of my games have more plats then golds in it. Whether or not their MMR has dropped to that of mine or not, keep them with other plats, not someone that's two divisions lower than them.

Tokin Turtle4 votes

This is an ongoing problem for many players, not that riot gives a fuck. Have had Silver 3 for past 4 months now because every time I hit promos, I get silver 4 and below on my team, and enemy team has gold 2 and up, how is that even fair? It just ruins the experience for us and makes them not want to play this game, I have stopped playing for awhile now and I don't think i will be coming back to League of Unbalance, what a fucking joke -_- P.S. SMURFS ARE FOR COWARDS AND INSECURE PRICKS, YOU MADE YOUR CLIMB, GIVE OTHERS A CHANCE!!

I Am Luxanna4 votes

i played with a few diamonds during my plat promos... i had to find a new anus.

IAMS4T4N2 votes

i had a plat 5 in my promos to gold and he was shit and ragequit /ffed 20 lol you should be glad, plat 5 is garbage

ReportThisRiven2 votes

many of the plats not all though. that you get matched with are tilting garbage that got carried by a good mmr placement and teammates/friends. they tilt and rage because durrhurr im plat i can destroy these gold/silvers. hell some of em just got placed due to a good last season when they havent played much since season 2. my point is the way the mmr system works in solo que ranked puts you up against them sometimes because thier mmr is SUPER low compared to thier rank and they need to play you for redemption lmao this is a much smaller issue than the lower elos just having know grasp of how a game is won so flaming and blaming begins by 10 when noobs are screaming ff @ 20 because they cant play from behind and the only other strategy game they play is COD. that guy feeds the plat who AT LEAST has enough game knowledge to carry because he used to play with plats. you should be happy because your lp gains are probably still gud :) the bottom of each tier may as well be bronze dont let thier position on ladder scare you

Kitten of Evil6 votes

my point is the way the mmr system works in solo que ranked puts you up against them sometimes because thier mmr is SUPER low compared to thier rank

This is a pretty huge flaw in the ranked system IMO. A ranking system where your actual skill level is measured by MMR but your rank does not reflect that MMR?

If MMR and rank are so different, why even have ranks at all? Why not just have MMRs? Here's my simple solution: If your MMR is at least X, you are Silver/Gold/Plat. No more promos.

Mandaari3 votes

That's pretty much what it used to be. Riot changed it because they didn't like how there were no milestones.

HentRex1 votes

And they said something like " We don't want players to drop a rank division and feel bad about themselves." I mean I get they want to do anything to keep people playing that's their job. Wouldn't mind seeing the old ranking system come back and rewards based on highest ranking achieved. Got to masters, then dropped to bronze? Get Masters rewards. Simple.

ReportThisRiven1 votes

i agree somewhat. but the thing is the way mmr is calculated and works with the ranked system (from what i can tell) is that you wil against higher mmr ppl your mmr goes up faster. makes sense right? well your mmr relative to your division also affects LP gains so if it werent for those working together the ranked system would be really fucked because you would always be playing with ppl your mmr and not be able to prove you can play with plats and thus earn the right to climb faster. Like i said i agree so im not trying to pick apart your post just adding some info from my experience for anyone to read. Its likely not that simple to make a healty ranked scenarioin this community, especially how someones first ranked season, can duo with diamond/plat and get placed in gold without even having good placements... that is a big contribution to ranked as it is. and those are usually the ones mostly make up the bottom tier of divisions. the bottom teirs of each rank are oversaturated with toxicity and flamers, as well as people who simply can not play from behind at all and generally snowball thierlane opponent in 10 minutes while calling gg the whole time. the bottom of each division is true elo hell (worse and worse as you get closer to bronze) #thatlastpartwas-purerant form my experience this season in s1 trying hard to get to g5 all the way from b5. ive seen a lot and i went through the s5-4 series only to immediately drop 17 times this season. like shit after that s4-3 6 times and to silver one 2nd try. and im stil seing the same shit i did in bronze lmao

LadyRenly2 votes

Plat players get to play against a silver? That's like, christmas in july, and free LP. Why do they get to play against noobs but you have to face the pros?

Peoples Champ2 votes

Another problem with the mmr system is that some players will not try in ranked or troll for a while and get their mmr reduced by quite a lot. Then when that player decides to try again, they end up utterly destroying people in ranked because theyre a good two tiers in mmr below their highest achieved rank. Ex. A master player trolls until he gets plat mmr, then begins to try again and just destroys people in every game. A friend of mine did this.

t0ad52 votes

They know it's bad, but they don't care.

Weasel Kensei2 votes

I notice that while Im in bronze 1, I often have 1 or more gold players on my team, or the enemy team, or both.

My favorite is this one time when I ended up on a team with 2 duo ques and me the odd man out, and had 2 golds, and a gold and silver, and me at bronze 1... They thought to tell me every thing to do, and whined when I didnt do any of it.

I pointed out that the system thought to match us all together, so whatever I was doing before getting infinite instructions "from my betters" got me matched up with them, so maybe they could just stop micromanaging me, and focus on their game... I was reported. We lost, but even though I had only 1 more death than the ADC, the entire loss was my little bronzy fault... mhmm.

It does go against my reasoning tho why I always have "bronze bashers" in my games, being ridiculed and attacked for being lower rank than someone else.... IN A RANKED MATCH, is just asinine, and i cannot perceive the reasoning for such a thing, by the match making of the system, nor the lack of logic by the players matched by the system in my RANKED games.

Not to mention all the lowlifes that try to squat in a tier below their own skill level to be asshats, all the gaters that dont want you to get through your promos, and all the "(I died 3 times to overextending) UGH shit team, Im done, bai (then they alt F4 and DC)."

I have 2 people play like crap, rage and quit in 2 different matches, and lose those. Now I have to WIN 2 games just to make up for the pathetic children that trolled me just to get back to where I was. THEN I have to play against people who are higher rank than me to WIN those 2 games to get back where I was...

Whatever, only a real craftsman cares about the quality of their product, its seems they have no craftsmen for the MMR side of things.

GundayMonday2 votes

The system is super confusing. You can be platinum with gold mmr. You can be silver with Diamond mmr. The mmr determines who you play against, so it can be frustrating when you get matched against people in a higher rank, that are actually similar mmr to you. There's also weird stuff where they place you against "better" players in your promos to prove that you belong up there. Same thing if you duo (the enemy team is higher mmr).

But yeah, I'm a fan of the old system which was a flat number. At least it was clear and you understood why you were getting like 4 LP for a win and -23897489712634 LP for a loss.

ihaveapotion2 votes

ha jokes on yall i dont play ranked, scrubmode.

DaspinnyX21 votes

I'd rather have that. Its better than every time I get to promos I get a booster that carries the other team.

Mandaari15 votes

I actually enjoy playing with higher MMR players because they're generally on the same page as you. It just makes very little sense to be like, "Hey, if you beat these plat players you'll make it into the gold."

DaspinnyX28 votes

{quoted}

I actually enjoy playing with higher MMR players because they're generally on the same page as you. It just makes very little sense to be like, "Hey, if you beat these plat players you'll make it into the gold."

I don't like MMR cause it tries to even out the teams based on MMR which is in theory a good thing but in practice it leads to teams very far apart from each other in skill from player to player, If one person is really high the others are low causing a severe disadvantage unless the other team is the same.

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

Which is gonna be so much better w/ the new 4 man groups right? /s

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather have that. Its better than every time I get to promos I get a booster that carries the other team.

More likely than not, it wont happen 5x in a row. You having an above average mmr for your division? Bullshit teams WILL happen 5x in a row.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Once you get to Silver 1, the game decides you're capable of defeating Gold 1-3s, and insists you do so if you want to promo up to the next division.

Aceatbl4ze2 votes

G4/S4/S4/S3/S3 VS G2/G2/G5/S1/S1 I have seen even this , those game are a bloodbath. I was the G4 in the wrong team, do the system think that i should carry them? I did just fine but...my team got disintegrated, Come on! This should not happen, the only thing i could do was laugh the whole game , i have seen things like that often , even Plat vs Bronze , i don't care about mmr , even if a tilted plat mmr is equal to a good bronze player that means nothing, the bronze player gets obliterated just from experience alone or simple baits or knowledge even if on pair mechanics . Nothing good comes from this , no one learn anything by being stomped too hard, if you lose you should lose against someone a bit better than you so you can tell what he does better than you that s why divisions are there but they are not respected cause mmr is in the way. My mmr got destroyed by a 15 games lose streak due to 80% of afker in those games or tilting people trolling , i keept on getting those impossible teams , luckly i managed to get out of that hell quickly but i don't want to imagine other people in that same position who are not able to carry impossible teams and are doomed to go down just cause they had a bad lose streak even if they played good games and they will keep on being matched with lower tier players that will force them to lose. FUCKED UP!

Kitten of Evil3 votes

Right, and I have a hard time believing that, in solo queue, there are not ten people of comparable rank (within a couple divisions) queuing up at once. Riot could tighten ranked matchmaking, and even if it took a bit longer, I'd wait.

Lugg1 votes

It's pretty common to have a player on the opposing team that is three or more tiers higher than you. The matchmaking in this game is beyond horrible.

elon wątroba1 votes

There shouldn't be gold players in my team, when i got promos to plat 3. #truestory

magic pole1 votes

same for gold promos to plat. AS a gold one, i'd be playing against majority plat 3 and plat 2 to get into plat 5. makes no sense, as if promos weren't stressful enough

FifeNinerSeven1 votes

How long has the ranking system been in tatters? I just barely made Silver 3 during my provisionals, and I've been seeing Gold players every single game.

Flemman1 votes

Welcome in ranked 3v3 usual game, were you face plat or diamond to go silver 2 in 3/4 of your game (I'm not even mad anymore, most of the time they trow harder than gold/silver team)

kaltenashes1 votes

i had a game with an eve that called support...she had smite....all she did was counter jungle the enemy jungler

i was playing irelia with hecarin jungler and his ult was enough to get us a lead in team fights

turns out eve was a bronze 2 and all the time she was saying "people need to realize that the best way to win is to have a counter jungler, this way he cant gank any lane and he's most likely useless"

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I did so well after I quit and started playing Ranked again that I pretty much exclusively got Gold and Plat players with absolutely no Silver players aside from me for a while. I actually did fine and I didn't even realize it until I looked at the matches but I think that MMR makes the whole point of ranks unnecessary.

Myz1 votes

Either a very bad plat player who's going down and soon losing his rank or someone playing duo with a low gold friend.

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

I think at that point you're also in the range of getting to skip divisions though. Like if you're gold 3 vs plat 4 and plat 5 players (not just plat 5 players that dropped to mid gold MMR) you SHOULD (as far as I know and have seen from people once or twice) go to gold 1 instead of gold 2 after you win the promos because of how big the gap is. Yeah it sucks to have to win promo vs MUCH higher level players than your rank, but you skip 100 LP and a second promo series as a reward.

Mandaari1 votes

No, you're not. At the time of writing the OP I was in silver 1, playing my promos with and against nearly all plat 4 and plat 5 players. I went 3/3 in promos quite easily and skipped nothing. The client also claims I'm not expected to skip my next division either even though I'm approaching a 70% win rate. Even if I were, it still doesn't make sense to possible deny me entrance to gold based on my performance against platinum players (some of whom, I might add, were advancing through their own promos with someone in silver).

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

Huh, that's crazy. I've actually was thinking of a youtuber I like who went from plat 5 straight to plat 3 after clearing promos when he was playing w/ plat 2 and some 3s consistently (or duos that were in that range averaged). So I figured that if you're Silver 1 going vs plat 4 and plat 5 rank then you should jump to gold 4 pretty easy (maybe it doesn't do it for tier jumps and you'll go gold 5-3+?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SWSFxS_KQc His promo game that it happens.

Edit: Also I got curious about the MMR of your games and there may be two things that influence this thread: first, you have a really low game count and many of the losses are in the first 10 so it may have placed you lower and be unsure about promoting you so fast because it is concerned about putting you ahead fast if you're borderline on a tier and hit a lucky streak of teammates (which doesn't seem to be the case from the next games), and second, your last 3 games were w/ low gold progressing to mid/high gold mmr players. There was one that was a number of plat 5 players that were all on losing streaks or had well below plat estimated MMR if you trust OP.GG's mmr estimations to be anywhere near right (but it would make sense if they were in w/ a gold 3 or 4, and your games after had some mid golds, before being pretty much just mid/high golds and plat 5s who look like their elo is more gold 2 or gold 1). I think it's definitely a spot that you should probably still be skipping divisions, but I wasn't seeing plat 4s and 5s as the majority of your opponents (I'd only count 5s if there aren't any golds in the game other than you, bc otherwise they're likely to be gold mmr plat players).

Mandaari1 votes

I see you've done your homework, admittedly better than myself. I've been using quickfind.kassad.in/profile/na/<username> to look at live game stats. Conveniently it shows you the MMR of matches along with the ranking of the players:

  • Placement matches ranging from 1100 to 1300.
  • Placed into silver II
  • Promotion matches from gold V matches ranged from 1400-1500.

In terms of seeing mostly plat players I was specifically speaking about the three gold promo matches. Looking back at each individual player, fewer than half of my opponents were in plat. I'm not sure where I got all players being plat 4 and 5, especially since the only plat 4 player I found was a teammate. Granted I was using a different data source --- I doubt it would differ in non-estimated stats though.

A quick google search to double-check the corresponding MMRs for each tier show 1500 to be the start of gold V, which agrees with quickfind. So my current MMR does match my division. That does mean that (and I'm speaking from memory) I'm getting some teammates and opponents from upper gold and lower plat who are also in their promos (i.e. advancing in the short term) in my games. I still find it really odd that you'd get someone who's not necessarily on a losing streak potentially 400 MMR below their division's MMR.

From personal experience in ARAM queues it takes a pretty big streak of losses to drop that hard. It took a full weekend of losses to drop from 2300 to 1900. That's factoring in that there are not a lot of people to match you with higher up in ARAM queues. I've had a game at 2700 succeeded by a game at 2300 after a 30 minute queue. But this isn't a problem for ranked SR, especially around gold/plat. Again, I find it very fishy that someone's potentially 400 MMR below their division. That in and of itself is a problem.

Even if they were dropping way below their division's MMR, matching me with someone who is in flux like that is a "poor experiment." Wouldn't you want to match me with players who you're sure are where they're supposed to be in order to make sure I'm better than someone who's really gold? Not someone falling from plat who could potentially be even worse than gold? If I'm quickly working my way through silver and someone plays against me in their silver promos is it really fair to say that my opponent didn't deserve their promotion? I mean, the system can tell I probably don't belong in silver, regardless of how far above silver I really am. Your promotion series from X to X+1 should be an experiment to show that you can more often than not beat a control group of players certainly belong in X.

Alywan1 votes

When i first promoted to P5, i was on a roll, having a 80% winrate in the last 20 games. Then, after finally reaching even P4, things started to get messy. I was matched with P1-P2 players. I don't know about you guys, but i have never seen (and i started from Bronze IV this season), worse players than these. Every game was the same : who has the most retard player in their team, lost the game. I ran out of luck, and from 80% winrate in last 20 games, i went to 20%, getting me back to P5 - 0 LP. Then, in just one week, from playing against P1-2-3 & D5 i started to play against G3-P5.

But, the weirdest thing i have ever seen since i play League of Legends happened. I usually search through LoLnexus before every game to see my teammates/opponents KDA/etc. Then i saw it. Me, as a P5 player, i was up against a Silver IV. This Silver IV was premade with a Gold II player from the enemy team. This, in my oppinion, is the purest example what could happen with this current MMR ratings. I fully agree on OP, we should get matched only against +- 2 tiers or something like that, and stop the crap that this MMR is.

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