Doran's Shield needs a buff

Macilento·Mar 26, 2016·85 votes·3,629 views

Who buy this item as starting item nowdays?

Unless you play some very specific champions no one wants this thing anymore. It just feels bad comapred tot he other options you have.

It doesn't give you enough Sustain/health to be worth compared to other things. If you want more sustain and early power you go blade, if you want to have life and mana and decent trading you go Corruption potion, if you need armor you go Cloth armor +4 pots,heck i'd rather buy a ruby crystal and a pot then doran shield.

This item is just in a bad spot right now. Fix it

59 Comments

SaiannaMar 26, 201631 votes

FYI: Players asked for those buffs for like 3-4 years. Some even laughed Riot would first delete Dominion than buff this item.. I wonder who's laughing now...

DengedenMar 26, 20169 votes

... back when Renekton, Mundo, Katarina and Shyv bought it on a regular basis? Damn, you guys only hate burst, not what actually wins games, huh?

HawkefireMar 26, 20162 votes

On the contrary dshield has always been more effective against sustained damage, given the flat reduction it gives. Also, people hate fighting ranged champs toplane when playing as a melee laner, and this item has the potential to be the best anti-ranged early game item in the game.

yoniameMar 27, 20161 votes

item 2033

HayRossMar 26, 201610 votes

Laughing that turns into sobbing

...I miss dominion...

DraqoneMar 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

FYI: Players asked for those buffs for like 3-4 years. Some even laughed Riot would first delete Dominion than buff this item.. I wonder who's laughing now...

The only buff I think the shield needs is:

UNIQUE: Blocks 8 damage from melee basic attacks **and 12 damage from ranged basic attacks **and single target abilities from champions.

SkiasMar 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The only buff I think the shield needs is:

UNIQUE: Blocks 8 damage from melee basic attacks **and 12 damage from ranged basic attacks **and single target abilities from champions.

You realize how incredibly strong that would be? It would be a must have on everyone.

MLDzXnRRRMar 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You realize how incredibly strong that would be? It would be a must have on everyone.

Melee only, so it can't be abused botlane by the supports. Also if you have gold income item, you can't buy this.

BeatzBoyFTWMar 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Melee only, so it can't be abused botlane by the supports. Also if you have gold income item, you can't buy this.

I'd love that when going against range tops like Vayne Teemo Graves Quinn

MLDzXnRRRMar 26, 20168 votes

Why not make it niche item for melee champions that play vs ranged opponents? Melee vs ranged now is: lose half the cs and get destroyed under turret and dived by their jungler; or - gapclose with your jungler and kill them many times.

SeenanMar 26, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Why not make it niche item for melee champions that play vs ranged opponents? Melee vs ranged now is: lose half the cs and get destroyed under turret and dived by their jungler; or - gapclose with your jungler and kill them many times.

I mean it makes sense, shields are usually good vs projectiles in real time.

EndlessSorcererMar 26, 20165 votes

I'm really not sure buffing it is a good idea. Even in its current state, it's still provides a good amount of sustain in passive lanes (especially when you want to avoid fights and are getting zoned from minions).

Early health regeneration can get ridiculous pretty quickly when stacked from multiple sources. If you played top lane at the beginning of Season 4 (when Doran's Shield gave ~10 HP/5 and the Perseverance Mastery healed 3% missing health per 5), you should know how strong it can be.

Then again, I'm kind of a jerk with that item and I'll combine it with health regen quints on somebody who already has passive sustain. I like using that combination on Trundle, Irelia and Dr. Mundo when I'm against heavy autoattackers or ranged champions.

MacilentoMar 26, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I'm really not sure buffing it is a good idea. Even in its current state, it's still provides a good amount of sustain in passive lanes (especially when you want to avoid fights and are getting zoned from minions).

Early health regeneration can get ridiculous pretty quickly when stacked from multiple sources. If you played top lane at the beginning of Season 4 (when Doran's Shield gave ~10 HP/5 and the Perseverance Mastery healed 3% missing health per 5), you should know how strong it can be.

Then again, I'm kind of a jerk with that item and I'll combine it with health regen quints on somebody who already has passive sustain. I like using that combination on Trundle, Irelia and Dr. Mundo when I'm against heavy autoattackers or ranged champions.

i dont' think it has enough sustain honestly, i would much rather buy a corrput potion or 4 pots for that. Even a doran blade. Unless you play some very specific champions that make good use of this item.

As you say it's hard to balance around a startign item, but at least some more flat health would be nice

SlythionMar 26, 20162 votes

I don't even use dorans blade usually, I just go longsword + 3 pots for that sustain and early start to the first item The only time I've started dorans shield was Nasus vs Vlad because I knew his early game Q would hurt without Doran's passive

SpoofghoulMar 26, 20165 votes

you want sustain?

item 1006 item 2010

Mama SorakaMar 26, 20162 votes

Did someone mention sustain without giving thanks to our lord and savior Regrowth Pendant?

RenascentMar 26, 20164 votes

You see people stacking Doran's Blade or Doran's Ring, but nobody ever stacks the Shield variant.

Makes me wonder how a Doran's Shield would look like if it were good enough to stack.

Pale PirateMar 26, 20163 votes

Passive is no longer unique.

That would work.

Slamurai JackMar 26, 20164 votes

I get it every game on DrMundo . Not sure what the problem is.

Meep ManMar 26, 20162 votes

I get Ruby Crystal on Mundo since it lets me get to a Spirit Visage, Sunfire Cape, and just about anything Mundo likes to build earlier.

XonraMar 26, 20163 votes

Honestly item 1054 is useless right now, and I can't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

It isn't good enough to start with, and it sure isn't worth picking up after the fact. You are better off getting a flask for sustain, or just get item 1055 and lifesteal a bit. It is not worth buying and it is in the "meh don't buy" category so hard I honestly forget it is a thing half the time (Not exaggerating).

It went from "well yeah, buy this" to "why bother buying this?".

SkiasMar 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Honestly is useless right now, and I can't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

It isn't good enough to start with, and it sure isn't worth picking up after the fact. You are better off getting a flask for sustain, or just get and lifesteal a bit. It is not worth buying and it is in the "meh don't buy" category so hard I honestly forget it is a thing half the time (Not exaggerating).

It went from "well yeah, buy this" to "why bother buying this?".

Dorans blade requires you to push to get the sustain whereas shield allows you to hang back and receive your healing. That is a big difference when you are in a matchup eating harass trying to use dorans blades lifesteal.

It Hertz When IPMar 26, 20161 votes

If you're eating that much harass without being able to punish them for it, you have bigger problems.

SkiasMar 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YLJElqZw,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-03-26T23:28:44.237+0000)

If you're eating that much harass without being able to punish them for it, you have bigger problems.

Ever laned against quinn or graves top?

It Hertz When IPMar 27, 20161 votes

Nope. But from what I've seen, that fits the criteria for "bigger problems". Doran's Shield doesn't seem to be sufficient for dealing with them.

AbyssphereMar 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YLJElqZw,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-27T11:34:13.687+0000)

Nope. But from what I've seen, that fits the criteria for "bigger problems". Doran's Shield doesn't seem to be sufficient for dealing with them.

That's kind of the point of the thread?

SH AzykanMar 26, 20162 votes

Cassiopeia Heimerdinger KogMaw Shaco are all fine to buy a dorans shield into. most of them rely on smaller individual hits in quick succession to do their damage (heim and AP shaco mainly) so dorans passive is actually really good to avoid a lot of damage vs them.

I do agree in most cases it is underwhelming, but when it is good, you pretty much HAVE to start it. because otherwise you do not win trades and just get out sustained in lane in most cases. Leaving it how it is, is probably the better choice until there is a solution that keeps it from being too strong or nigh worthless.

i would however change it to 350 gold so you can get a refillable with it though if nothing else.

DurfainMar 26, 20162 votes

Doran's doesn't apply to Heimer turrets AFAIK, they count as on hit effects or something.

It Hertz When IPMar 26, 20161 votes

The individual attacks are single target basic attacks and therefore affected, the laser is AoE and applies spell effects but is unaffected.

DengedenMar 26, 20162 votes

It's a niche ignite&burst counter on resourceless/AA based characters. It's the same problem that Kassadin has, he counters a lot of immobile, scaling mages. Too strong in certain matchups, so both need to be significantly weaker elsewhere.

WarlockLawMar 26, 20163 votes

Except ruby crystal is better vs ap burst, cloth armor is better vs ad burst. Neither of those give any mana so resourceless champions usually buy those instead

DengedenMar 26, 20161 votes

Doran's shield is like a hybrid of both and you spend less gold on health pots. Furthermore, if you're afraid of the ignite all-in, it's usually against an AD champion. You get both health for ignite's true damage as well as reduced damage from AAs, neither cloth nor ruby offer both.

WarlockLawMar 26, 20161 votes

In my experience, every time I take Doran's Shield my sustain is worse than if I had done cloth armor vs ad opponent, or Corrupting potion/ruby crystal vs magic damage champs. There is no situation I can imagine in which I would take Dorans Shield and expect to perform better than with another start set up. Hell, I'd take boot + pots over it.

DengedenMar 27, 20161 votes

You DON'T buy it for sustain, you buy it for survivability, to win early trades.

WarlockLawMar 27, 20161 votes

Sustain = Survivability. Full health champions tend die slower than half health ones. Also I've never won a trade with Dorans shield win my opponent has bought damage.

DengedenMar 27, 20161 votes

That's the thing, you won't get to be half health for long, you'll be constantly poked out because of the strong early game that ignite offers. Or you'll die to a jungle gank. It's all well and good IF you can sustain up but not if you die instantly.

WarlockLawMar 27, 20161 votes

I don't see how it's any different with the shield. I still get poked to half and lose trades with the shield, but now I have less pots to sustain back to full while playing safe.

I said it earlier, every time I decide to take dorans shield I perform poorly. I have never won a lane with the shield. In my experience it is always worse than another start I could have done. It needs buffs or a rework.

DengedenMar 28, 20161 votes

It is not against poke - it is against burst - pay attention

It is not for winning lane - it is for surviving it

WarlockLawMar 29, 20161 votes

Its never helped me vs burst or surviving a lane. Also I'm almost entirely positive, but have not seen any recent math on it, that against ad casters with no magic damage or true damage the cloth armor start gives you more effective than the shield does.

Also, I separate surviving lanes from both winning and losing. If I lost, I am outright weaker than my opponent fed 3 or more kills to them then i earned and am a weak point on the team, and am down significant cs. Won lanes are anything with a fairly noticeable lead, from 1-2 kill lead, to significant gold lead, to a tower lead. Survived lanes are lanes where I only die 1-2 times, are within 30-50 cs behind my opponent and managed to keep my tower. With that clarification, I only lose lanes with dorans shield without considerable roam pressure from mid/jungle

DengedenMar 29, 20161 votes

It is pretty niche, it's only really useful in lanes where you AA on "cooldown", in lanes where you know the jungler will camp you (red buff) or vs ignite top lanes.

However, in those scenarios, it is absurdly effective. It let's "resourceless" earlygame champions win extended trades, survive jungle ganks (like I said, lots of mixed damage) and invalidates ignite all-ins.

DurfainMar 26, 20162 votes

The thing is.. it's not even hard to buff. Reduce the block damage from 8 to 6 but let is apply_ after_ armor/MR calculations. Voila! You have an item that isn't gartbage after the first five minutes or devalued by your own defensive stats.

swordishforceMar 27, 20162 votes

Just reduce the cost by 50 and then you can get another pot. Increased gold efficiency and more sustain. Voila

Tahm DaddyMar 26, 20161 votes

Doran's shield is supposed to make you tankier, which it does, but it drastically lowers your sustain. Level 1 it doesn't offer enough to even be considered. If you could buy an extra pot with it or just give it a passive that increases all healing by 3% then maybe it'd be alright.

KVbqbFsC8eMar 26, 20161 votes

I never see any situation where I'd rather have Dorans shield than cloth/4. Its been garbage ever since it was gutted back when supports would start with it.

PartholonianMar 27, 20161 votes

And supports only started with it because at the time they had nothing else good to start with. Now that they have their own items that are actually good, it's hard to see a support preferring it over relic. Maybe if they have to first back on less than 800, but they're giving up a lot.

I think they actually nerfed it because people were bored by the Renekton vs. Mundo top lanes, though. Having no survivability/sustain options makes top lane a lot bloodier and makes tanks much weaker laners into carry tops (although it might still be worth it if the tank does enough for your teamfight potential, that pretty much has to be someone who brings a ton of utility like Malphite ; champions who are useless when behind can't also have laning phases so bad that it practically guarantees that they WILL be behind).

SaltyKrackaMar 26, 20161 votes

Instead of buffing the sustain, I'd rather they buff the damage block to include aoe spells and DoT ticks.

Meep ManMar 26, 20161 votes

450 Gold +65 Health +10 Armor +10 Magic Resist UNIQUE Passive: Increase your base health regeneration by 5. UNIQUE Passive- Block: Block 4 (+1 per level) of all damage dealt by basic attacks and single target spells, applying before armor and magic resist. This is increase to 6 (+1 per level) and applies after armor and magic resist for melee champions.

There we go yes? Lower the health, but make it to where Doran's Shield also gives armor and magic resist. The health regeneration bonus is reduced by 1, but now increases base health regeneration (meaning items can increase this). The Block passive now scales slightly with level, giving you up to 21 damage blocked at Level 18 for ranged champions and 23 for melee champions, making it scale a little better into late game like the other Starting Items. The main problem with Doran's Shield is, unlike Doran's Ring and Doran's Blade, it has absolutely NO scaling stats, so buying it early game actually hurts your late game a lot more than just buying Cloth Armor and Ruby Crystal. Now, it scales better into late game by making the health regeneration bonus be applied to base, giving it armor and magic resist, and making the block passive scale slightly with level.

EndlessSorcererMar 26, 20163 votes

Yeah, those numbers are just plain ridiculous.

10 Armor = 200 G 10 MR = 180 G 70 HP = 185 G

Even ignoring the base health regen and block passive, that's already a value of 565 G.

The block passive you propose is also incredibly over-tuned. Blocking 5 to 23 damage (ranged) or 7.5 to 33 damage (melee) from every basic attack and single-target spell will be very valuable at all stages of the game and it will significantly weaken autoattack-oriented bruisers (since they typically rely on their base stats and attack speed for damage).

This item would quickly become a must-buy on pretty much every top laner, ADC and support in the game in almost every situation.

Meep ManMar 26, 20163 votes

I changed the numbers a bit while you were writing this because I saw that too. Also, the gold value of starting items is supposed to be a little insane because: A.) They are supposed to give you that little boost to get out of the gate and B.) They don't build into anything

Doran's Ring gives 15 Ability Power, 60 Health, 50% Mana Regeneration and it's pretty decent little last hit passive for 400 gold. That's 736 gold value for 400 gold without the passive.

SkiasMar 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YLJElqZw,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-03-26T16:22:27.885+0000)

450 Gold +65 Health +10 Armor +10 Magic Resist UNIQUE Passive: Increase your base health regeneration by 5. UNIQUE Passive- Block: Block 4 (+1 per level) of all damage dealt by basic attacks and single target spells, applying before armor and magic resist. This is increase to 6 (+1 per level) and applies after armor and magic resist for melee champions.

There we go yes? Lower the health, but make it to where Doran's Shield also gives armor and magic resist. The health regeneration bonus is reduced by 1, but now increases base health regeneration (meaning items can increase this). The Block passive now scales slightly with level, giving you up to 21 damage blocked at Level 18 for ranged champions and 23 for melee champions, making it scale a little better into late game like the other Starting Items. The main problem with Doran's Shield is, unlike Doran's Ring and Doran's Blade, it has absolutely NO scaling stats, so buying it early game actually hurts your late game a lot more than just buying Cloth Armor and Ruby Crystal. Now, it scales better into late game by making the health regeneration bonus be applied to base, giving it armor and magic resist, and making the block passive scale slightly with level.

Holy crap, no resists. That item is super overloaded, everyone would take it. Jungle, adc, top and mid.