What i don't understand about the state of lane hypercarries

The Voids Call·Feb 20, 2016·2 votes·619 views

Champions like

is that you can't just not lose to them in lane, you have to completely crush them, else they still get fed and run over your team in the mid game.

19 Comments

YumifriesFeb 20, 20162 votes

That so true with Yasuo haha! In atleast 60% of games with one I see them go like 1/4 in the first 12 minutes Then all of a sudden they get one teamfight and end up 4/4 and destroy from there. Same is true for KogMaw nowadays.

Best KhaZix VoidFeb 20, 20162 votes

Yasuo sucks

5050BSFeb 20, 20162 votes

Hypercarry is a stupid design but thats riots gimmick.

I dont know if Riot is just a toxic troll company or if they just dont know they feed the troll/toxic players with this crap.

Hex the FenFenFeb 20, 20161 votes

Play Zyra against Yasuo mid...I do AMAZING with her against him and can keep him down all game. I always take summoner 3 on her mid lane, it works really well!

The Voids CallFeb 20, 20162 votes

Yes you will completely crush him in lane.

It doesn't change what i said.

PhantomGGFeb 20, 20161 votes

user proved you wrong yet it does not change what you said?

Which is it.

Is user right or wrong?

Can't be both.

The Voids CallFeb 20, 20161 votes

what? Drosera didn't prove me wrong. It wasn't the point i was making.

But i'll elaborate because you don't seem to understand.

My point was... A hypercarry goes 1/1/0 in lane against an opponent who went 1/1/0. Each has about equivalent farm. It's accurate to say that the lane was a tie.

What Dorsera said was about winning the lane. If you take Zyra against Yasuo , you will completely destroy him in lane, either in kills or in farm through zoning. Therefore it completely missed the point.

PhantomGGFeb 20, 20161 votes

yasuo is a mid game hyper carry, every champion in the game has a clock/timer in which they will turn on, they also have a timer in which they turn off

Zyra is great late game, and yasuo turns off late game

If the zyra can not beat the yasuo late game, then she has failed at her job.

The Voids CallFeb 20, 20161 votes

What are you even talking about? Yasuo doesn't fall off at any point in the game. He's substantially weaker in the early game before he starts snowballing, but his end game dps is so insanely high that he doesn't fall off.

Hex the FenFenFeb 20, 20161 votes

Like I said above and have done in literally many many games. I have shut down Yasuo with Zyra mid...he can't do anything all game because I make it my job to either stop him from getting into position or I nuke him down and take him out of the fight. It really isn't hard. Hyper carry or not I have made many Yasuo fail and can't come back at all. Same can go for Vayne and Tristana as well. It IS POSSIBLE to make them useless. So no, I didn't miss the point, I gave you a valid option to help you.

PhantomGGFeb 20, 20161 votes

One day the majority of the player base will realize

"oh hey, this champion relies completely on attack speed"

"maybe I should use exhaust on them"

Hex the FenFenFeb 20, 20161 votes

I take it more for the damage reduction and the slow for both keeping him in my plants/ult, or surviving his ult/ganks. Not really much for the attack speed debuff, but there is always that XP and the only reason I made sure to say to use exhaust is because Zyra is SUPER immobile and SUPER squishy and a lot of people will take ignite on her when you don't need it, exhaust is almost a MUST take on her when playing her mid. It gives her so much security and kill potential.

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 20, 20161 votes

I don't think you quite understand how hypercarries work.

They are designed that if you let them get ahead, let them get to their powerspikes, let them get to late game, they will dominate. If you are doing better then them, it's you and your team's job to ride that advantage and not let the enemy hypercarry get to that point.

And if you fail to do that, it's on you for losing.

The Voids CallFeb 20, 20162 votes

So what you're saying is that, a hypercarry doesn't have the burden of having to win the lane. It's fair, that a hyper carry can simply not lose the lane, while other champions are required to worry about winning the lane in order to come out ahead.

What i'm getting at is the idea of risk reward. If a hypercarry can play low risk, with a high reward. Although any champion matched up against them is forced to play high risk for a "low reward" of not handing the game over to them.

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 20, 20161 votes

That is the point of hyper carries. They will statistically do better at later stages of the game, so their goal is either to get there naturally (by time), or get fed and get there artificially.

When you are against a hypercarry, it is on you to beat them. They are a time bomb, you have to be the bomb squad, and diffuse it before it reaches critical.

And winning is never "low reward". If you stomp a hypercarry, and I mean really smash them, they won't be able to do anything for a pretty long time. But then if you do nothing, don't press that advantage, don't respect their status, let the game drag on enough for them to catch up, then they will present a problem, and you will have to play better then them to make up for that.

The Voids CallFeb 20, 20161 votes

Fair enough, "low reward" is an inaccurate statement, but it is a very high risk for equal reward. As opposed to hypercarries which are playing low risk for the same level of reward.

The problem is that they aren't exactly limited by some time boundary to when they can start snowballing. If it was the case that (through some means) a hypercarry could get a decent number of kills before the 25 minute mark, and still be beaten and shut down in lane, before that mark, then it'd be fine. Though that's not the case, give yasuo the first blood in lane at 2 minutes or 12 minutes, he will start snowballing out of control.

As soon as your high risk play doesn't pay off you get seriously punished. Hypercarries are in now way punished for low risk gameplay.

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 20, 20161 votes

That's what I meant in my first comment:

get fed and get there artificially

Early game, hyper carries don't have enough inate power to beat you straight up, but they have the tools in order to out play you early, and then start snowballing, resulting in their "late game" being much sooner then anyone else's.

Now, could there be some hyper carries who hit their powerspikes a bit early? Maybe, I don't know. But that wasn't the point of my post; it was about how hyper carries work.

The Voids CallFeb 20, 20161 votes

I'm talking about how hyper carries work too.

They are an extremely toxic and poor design for a champion.

Again if your talking risk reward, they are playing low risk for equal reward as their high risk lane opponent.

If the laner against the hyper carry falls behind. You're forced to make a risky play to prevent them from snowballing.

The hyper carry falls behind, they are in no way punished for simply playing it safe until they out scale the enemy.