Give me one good reason for Swains unpopularity?

Agidyne·Nov 18, 2014·5 votes·2,567 views

✔ He plays like no other champion ✔ He carries games hard if ahead, seriously, he becomes unkillable if he is slightly ahead of everyone else ✔ He doesn't get bullied out of lane, most of the time, he is the one bullying ✔ Destroys Assassins ✔ Easy to farm with due to responsive auto attacks ✔ His visuals are still cool, despite his age ✔ Good in teamfights ✔ Amazing AoE Sustain, unique mechanic, works with Zhonyas ✔ No one brings Ignite anymore and only a handful of chacaters have access to grievous wounds. ✔ Mana problems are solved by getting a Catalyst early on ✔ Has a Swag Dance ☐ He is played in the LCS

35 Comments

JamareeNov 18, 20147 votes

Heavily mana reliant, no escapes, meph early game (1 - 5) and doesn't see LCS play

FeatherztormNov 18, 20141 votes

Heavily mana reliant, no escapes, meph early game (1 - 5) and doesn't see LCS play

And if this is all that makes him "unpopular" then let him stay unpopular. Those of us who know his potential are fine with not having him chosen or banned in our games.

But just out of curiosity, why is a champion labeled unpopular because they have no escapes? Nasus has no escape, and he's played very often, so is Darius, Annie, Lux, and the list goes on. And just like those champions, Swain has a slow/snare to help him evade.

The only reason I can agree on, though it becomes a non-factor after you get catalyst, is his mana issue.

JamareeNov 18, 20144 votes

Heavily mana reliant, no escapes, meph early game (1 - 5) and doesn't see LCS play

And if this is all that makes him "unpopular" then let him stay unpopular. Those of us who know his potential are fine with not having him chosen or banned in our games.

But just out of curiosity, why is a champion labeled unpopular because they have no escapes? Nasus has no escape, and he's played very often, so is Darius, Annie, Lux, and the list goes on. And just like those champions, Swain has a slow/snare to help him evade.

The only reason I can agree on, though it becomes a non-factor after you get catalyst, is his mana issue.

Yes, that is LITERALLY all it takes for a champion to be unpopular, case in point as recently, Rammus and Fiddlesticks, both claimed to being "nerfed into unviability" after their last set of nerfs that lowered their CC from 3 seconds to 2.25, and look now, back to seeing pro level play and having high win rates. And no...no those champions aren't. Nasus, Darius, and Lux don't really see play, Annie barely sees play at all period even as a support anymore because of Morgana, and Lux is outshined by Xerath, no one plays Darius and Nasus anymore except for Trick2G and Sirchez with Nasus and Darius being played by Hawke and I'm not even sure if he plays anymore.

FeatherztormNov 18, 20141 votes

Heavily mana reliant, no escapes, meph early game (1 - 5) and doesn't see LCS play

And if this is all that makes him "unpopular" then let him stay unpopular. Those of us who know his potential are fine with not having him chosen or banned in our games.

But just out of curiosity, why is a champion labeled unpopular because they have no escapes? Nasus has no escape, and he's played very often, so is Darius, Annie, Lux, and the list goes on. And just like those champions, Swain has a slow/snare to help him evade.

The only reason I can agree on, though it becomes a non-factor after you get catalyst, is his mana issue.

Yes, that is LITERALLY all it takes for a champion to be unpopular, case in point as recently, Rammus and Fiddlesticks, both claimed to being "nerfed into unviability" after their last set of nerfs that lowered their CC from 3 seconds to 2.25, and look now, back to seeing pro level play and having high win rates. And no...no those champions aren't. Nasus, Darius, and Lux don't really see play, Annie barely sees play at all period even as a support anymore because of Morgana, and Lux is outshined by Xerath, no one plays Darius and Nasus anymore except for Trick2G and Sirchez with Nasus and Darius being played by Hawke and I'm not even sure if he plays anymore.

I may be missing something here, but I see one, if not multiple, of those listed champs in almost every game I play, be it a Normal or Ranked on either this account, or my other 2 accounts, so..... yeah. Are they a Lucian, or a Leona? Hell no, they're not. But they're played, and quite a bit. Almost as much as some of the popular champs, and they have NO escapes, which was the whole point of the previous reply. No escapes =/= unpopular.

JamareeNov 18, 20143 votes

Heavily mana reliant, no escapes, meph early game (1 - 5) and doesn't see LCS play

And if this is all that makes him "unpopular" then let him stay unpopular. Those of us who know his potential are fine with not having him chosen or banned in our games.

But just out of curiosity, why is a champion labeled unpopular because they have no escapes? Nasus has no escape, and he's played very often, so is Darius, Annie, Lux, and the list goes on. And just like those champions, Swain has a slow/snare to help him evade.

The only reason I can agree on, though it becomes a non-factor after you get catalyst, is his mana issue.

Yes, that is LITERALLY all it takes for a champion to be unpopular, case in point as recently, Rammus and Fiddlesticks, both claimed to being "nerfed into unviability" after their last set of nerfs that lowered their CC from 3 seconds to 2.25, and look now, back to seeing pro level play and having high win rates. And no...no those champions aren't. Nasus, Darius, and Lux don't really see play, Annie barely sees play at all period even as a support anymore because of Morgana, and Lux is outshined by Xerath, no one plays Darius and Nasus anymore except for Trick2G and Sirchez with Nasus and Darius being played by Hawke and I'm not even sure if he plays anymore.

I may be missing something here, but I see one, if not multiple, of those listed champs in almost every game I play, be it a Normal or Ranked on either this account, or my other 2 accounts, so..... yeah.

I personally haven't seen Lux within the last 20 games I have played, I haven't seen a Darius since when I played him because of his Dunkmaster skin, seen one Annie, and haven't seen a Nasus in a while either unless I played him, but that is just me.

FeatherztormNov 18, 20141 votes

Heavily mana reliant, no escapes, meph early game (1 - 5) and doesn't see LCS play

And if this is all that makes him "unpopular" then let him stay unpopular. Those of us who know his potential are fine with not having him chosen or banned in our games.

But just out of curiosity, why is a champion labeled unpopular because they have no escapes? Nasus has no escape, and he's played very often, so is Darius, Annie, Lux, and the list goes on. And just like those champions, Swain has a slow/snare to help him evade.

The only reason I can agree on, though it becomes a non-factor after you get catalyst, is his mana issue.

Yes, that is LITERALLY all it takes for a champion to be unpopular, case in point as recently, Rammus and Fiddlesticks, both claimed to being "nerfed into unviability" after their last set of nerfs that lowered their CC from 3 seconds to 2.25, and look now, back to seeing pro level play and having high win rates. And no...no those champions aren't. Nasus, Darius, and Lux don't really see play, Annie barely sees play at all period even as a support anymore because of Morgana, and Lux is outshined by Xerath, no one plays Darius and Nasus anymore except for Trick2G and Sirchez with Nasus and Darius being played by Hawke and I'm not even sure if he plays anymore.

I may be missing something here, but I see one, if not multiple, of those listed champs in almost every game I play, be it a Normal or Ranked on either this account, or my other 2 accounts, so..... yeah.

I personally haven't seen Lux within the last 20 games I have played, I haven't seen a Darius since when I played him because of his Dunkmaster skin, seen one Annie, and haven't seen a Nasus in a while either unless I played him, but that is just me.

Gotcha. Well, again, my point wasn't to really argue with you about those listed champs, it was more so me pointing out that, because a champ has no escapes, doesn't yield to their unpopularity, as I added the my last reply to you before seeing your reply. His unpopularity is more-so because of him not being popular with the pros in LCS matches, as you pointed out. Hope that changes, as he's an awesome champ.

OblongOtterNov 18, 20141 votes

I'm with you. I never see them, although I love all of them, they can be really strong.

DrNovaNov 18, 20141 votes

I've seen a handful of Darius's. Have seen and used Lux a fair amount. Seen a couple Annie sup's, and still see Nasus commonly.

ButterBladesXNov 19, 20141 votes

so what if no escapes he can stun the attacker and still get away or even juke em. u should be warding anyways so many people nowadays dont do that and stupidly push the lane and then yell at the support to ward for them. Buy wards and u will have no problems and be map aware. as for mana item 2041 it isnt really a problem once u learn how to play him if u really have prblems get a mana sustain item...like other ap mids item 3003 item 3174 item 3165 item 3027 one of these and ull be set. and fuck lcs i say play w/e works

ShentaiNov 18, 20145 votes

You may not get bullied out of lane but you will get pushed into pathetic tower farming mode until 6 and then forced to spend a fair amount of mana to push lane out.

Side note I absolutely love playing lux but with east coast ping (and busy boston wifi channels) a champion that's all skillshots with no escape is pretty unforgiving.

HopeOfSpiraNov 18, 20144 votes

I personally think he has a boring kit. I hope he gets reworked soon.

GrimspeakeNov 18, 20144 votes

swain op, he drives me nuts.

CheapShotterNov 18, 20143 votes

Most of the stuff you said is true, but still a few things are off:

"He doesn't get bullied out of lane", kind of true, but , but most of his damage is sustained unless he chooses to W after landing Torment, he loses to a fair amount of champions pre-6, eg. Ziggs, Ahri, Zed, Katarina or Brand because they have burstier trading in lane and/or out-range him and can poke him out due to his short-ish range.
"He carries hard when ahead, and becomes almost unkillable in the mid game": While this statement is true, he's also quite easy to fall behind as when you have a team who can co-operate together, Swain gets shut down hard if he gets ganked early and falls behind, if the enemy mid laner hits 6 first then they will have a very sizable advantage and if they can snowball that advantage then you are literally done for and your sustain won't mean much.
"Destroys assassins": Swain only destroys assassins because he gets tankiness through his ultimate ability, but assassins like Fizz and Katarina can circumvent this because they both apply Grievous Wounds and both see a large amount of play, while Katarina is more of a skill matchup, Fizz dumps on him, Zed can also bully him out of lane and as for Talon, I haven't actually vsed one as Swain, but with Ignite he could probably kill a Swain post 6, and while Talon's Q doesn't apply Grievous Wounds, the bleed damage will still nullify Swain's sustain and he will likely die, also, Talon can avoid Swain's single target damage by ulting before he can cast his spells.
"Responsive auto attacks": Hmm, who told you this?
"His visuals are still cool": Ummmmmm, no.
"No-one brings Ignite anymore": Lol Ignite is a must on a mid lane champion, plus most people will lock in Ignite when they see a Swain.

you asked for a good reason for his unpopularity, I just gave you 6.

AgidyneNov 18, 20141 votes

You deal over 60% of someones hp if you manage to land your E-Q-W at level 3. Obviously you can't forget to auto attack, your Autos actually do quite a bit of damage early on. Sure you can't back out and if you miss your Nevermove you lose the trade, but honestly, how hard is it to land?
True, he is one of those characters who either gets ahead and becomes unkillable, or he falls behind and becomes a stunbot.
He will destroy meele assassins with ease, it's seriously easy, they can't trade with him.
I play Swain, I know this
How can you not like that blue "mohawk"
Most mages don't have ignite anymore, they either bring barrier, heal or exhaust to survive the assassins. Assassins are easily shut down by Exhaust.

Fizz&Kata can be quite problematic as you don't have any form of immediate crowd control and they apply grievous wounds.

But not the AD Assassins, AD Assassins all get demolished with ease.

FeatherztormNov 18, 20141 votes

Fizz&Kata can be quite problematic as you don't have any form of immediate crowd control and they apply grievous wounds.

Only when she ults, though, and if she fully commits, Swain will demolish her with a full combo. Her grievous wounds becomes a non-factor the second she shunpo's in.

NebuulNov 19, 20141 votes

Exhaust shuts you down even harder than ignite because your healing is damage-based, and exhaust removes your damage. So you get half healing AND half damage instead of just half healing.

FeatherztormNov 18, 20142 votes

Most of the stuff you said is true, but still a few things are off: If most of it is true, then what follows is negated as "reasons why he's unpopular" right off the bat.

"He doesn't get bullied out of lane", kind of true, but , but most of his damage is sustained unless he chooses to W after landing Torment, he loses to a fair amount of champions pre-6, eg. Ziggs, Ahri, Zed, Katarina or Brand because they have burstier trading in lane and/or out-range him and can poke him out due to his short-ish range. Huh? Zed? You're kidding, right?

"He carries hard when ahead, and becomes almost unkillable in the mid game": While this statement is true, he's also quite easy to fall behind as when you have a team who can co-operate together, Swain gets shut down hard if he gets ganked early and falls behind, if the enemy mid laner hits 6 first then they will have a very sizable advantage and if they can snowball that advantage then you are literally done for and your sustain won't mean much. Isn't that any/every champion, though?

"Destroys assassins": Swain only destroys assassins because he gets tankiness through his ultimate ability, but assassins like Fizz and Katarina can circumvent this because they both apply Grievous Wounds and both see a large amount of play, while Katarina is more of a skill matchup, Fizz dumps on him, Zed can also bully him out of lane and as for Talon, I haven't actually vsed one as Swain, but with Ignite he could probably kill a Swain post 6, and while Talon's Q doesn't apply Grievous Wounds, the bleed damage will still nullify Swain's sustain and he will likely die, also, Talon can avoid Swain's single target damage by ulting before he can cast his spells. Is this bronze?

"Responsive auto attacks": Hmm, who told you this? Not a reason

"His visuals are still cool": Ummmmmm, no. Not a reason

"No-one brings Ignite anymore": Lol Ignite is a must on a mid lane champion, plus most people will lock in Ignite when they see a Swain. Swain is also played top-lane, and probably even more successfully to boot. So in this case, he may choose tp over ignite. / Not a reason

you asked for a good reason for his unpopularity, I just gave you 6. You told him what he said was true, then gave some flaws that is almost 100% said for every other champ in the game.

I read ~~maybe one reason ~~ no good reason as to why Swain is unpopular. Every "reason" you listed was either something that follows every champion in the game (essentially meaning every champion is unpopular) or it was bullshit nonsense. Give some REAL reasons as to why he's unpopular, other than him not being chosen much, if at all, in professional games.

AgidyneNov 18, 20141 votes

dayummm

you are going ham, son...

Champion SkinNov 18, 20143 votes

Swain has problems clearing waves so if you get pushed in it can be a pain to deal with Swain is also a bit short ranged And Swain is rather mana dependent He can be vulnerable to burst (as healing from ult does very little if you get bursted from 100-0) Can have problems dealing damage to priority targets in teamfights because of short range and no mobility

But yeah swain is pretty awesome and he can bully melee top laners pretty hard... well some of them anyways

MattAkhavanNov 18, 20142 votes

He is unpopular because he's not a meta pick. Also his unpopularity makes him unpopular. if you catch my drift. he's fun to play and i play him, ad his winrate is almost 60%

FeatherztormNov 18, 20141 votes

He is unpopular because he's not a meta pick. Also his unpopularity makes him unpopular. if you catch my drift. he's fun to play and i play him, ad his winrate is almost 60%

The only legit reason I've read as to why he's unpopular. There is no reason other than nobody picks him. Maybe because it takes more than just point, click, and close your eyes.

FrikgeekNov 18, 20141 votes

his winrate is almost 60%

No it isn't, where did you pull that from? It's 52% overall and fluctuates between 46%-54% in diamond+ because he isn't played enough to get consistent stats.

DunderflumpNov 18, 20142 votes

He doesn't have boobs and pros don't play him.

He's good. I play him top.

Kowe The EwokNov 18, 20142 votes

Easy to counterbuild (QSS removes all his utility and half of his damage) Small range

FrikgeekNov 18, 20142 votes

He's not as tanky as other toplaners. His snare isn't anywhere near as good as Ryze's snare. Ryze still deals more damage lategame. Gets pooped on by mobile bruisers rushing SV. If you displace him out of a fight he'll never catch up because he has no mobility. With Trist, Janna, and Lee all being very popular this isn't hard to do. Very easy to gank unless you're fed enough to 1v2(again, no mobility). Does damage over time yet has no chasing potential. Snare is too hard to hit when almost everyone has a dash. Support bought morellonomicon? You are now relatively burstable.

He's a relatively good counter to maokai though.

And if you're talking about swain mid then it's because swain mid is shit. He's short ranged with no waveclear, he'll get shoved super hard by almost every midlaner and you'll be sitting under your tower while they're roaming bot and getting free kills. His autos might be "responsive" but they only have 475 range, which puts you way too close to the enemy mid.

Auz the RipperNov 18, 20142 votes

If by "responsive" you mean "terrible" then yes, Swain's Autoattack is very responsive

Potato DocNov 18, 20142 votes

Wait i get it now... This is genius. You actually hate swain and instead of making a hate thread you tried reverse psychology on us >.> im on to you mister!

SaelaniNov 18, 20141 votes

SHHH stop teaching poor players how to think outside the meta.

NarasimhaNov 18, 20141 votes

Because he's boring. You can expect the same thing from every single Swain with no variation at all. And to be fair, its not the players issue, Swain HAS no variation built into his kit.

TomTom202Nov 18, 20141 votes

Because he's boring. You can expect the same thing from every single Swain with no variation at all. And to be fair, its not the players issue, Swain HAS no variation built into his kit.

Well, if they rework him then they should possibly give him different abilities when he's in crow form or just change his abilities a tad so that they have variation. Swain

gravityjuiceNov 18, 20141 votes

Because we don't want him to be popular. (we, the swain mains)

shindaiwa21Nov 18, 20141 votes

Pushing Power: My main issue with swain is one that is rarely mentioned, but in my opinion quite cripling, his pushing power. Most mages max there pushing ability first (or don't have pushing issues for whatever reason,) while swain would prefer to max his (W) last, and at best can max it second. This puts him into a freeze lane + abuse catagory, which is not the most effective, since your lane opponent may walk down to dragon, or gank another lane, then come back to his tower to soak up the wave you slowly built up while painstakingly lasthitting with 50 damage autos. His ult sucks for pushing ultil he has rank 2-3 and lots of AP.

Immobile Drain Talk: Since swain has basically no mobility and just has to run into a team and be a man, this makes him very suspecitble to being burst down. He needs MR, Armor, HP, and Mana to teamfight effectively. He opens ROA (a slow starter) then build Frozen Heart/Hourglass + Abyssal/Spirit VIsage, and IMO isn't particularly strong until he has both resistances. Other top lane champions require much less in the way of itemization (ie Rumble) or have the mobility/range/hourglass rush to allow for effective teamfighting earlier. Swain needs time to deal his damage, most mages don't.

Suspectible to ganking in top.

Worthless if behind, (due to close range damage, lack of mobility, requirement of tankiness)

Don't get me wrong, I like swain and I enjoy playing him. He makes melee champions cry and flaunt his manliness in his enemies faces. His builds just come together slowly, and maxing W or Q second always leaves some kind of hole in his power, though W max is good enough. His W basically relies on his targets to be CC'd or retarded to land. I do think teleport surplanting ignite in top lane, in combination with his mana restoral on kill or assist do help his viability quite a bit. He's just not much of a playmaking champion, takes time to ramp up, and is very mediocre if not ahead, which is why he sees little to no competitive play.

Adding some innate resistance to his ultimate would help him out considerably, perhaps resistance scaling with ability power? Increased damage against minions would help his ult a lot, though his healing vs minions would have to be reduced accordingly. Kind of an ugly solution but it would help a lot.

EsariahNov 19, 20141 votes

I absolutely love Swain's kit, but playing him before level 5 is such a horrendously boring and tedious process that I just don't play him anymore. I have a hard time not having fun. I main malz, he's fun pretty much from level 1.

But I also hate having to do work to last hit. :)

ButterBladesXNov 19, 20141 votes

To me swain seems kindov similar to viktor. Viktor with his robo arm and Swain with his crow. both have a stun. i think they are both awsome. but i have to admit whenever i see a swain they are usually noobs at him and i easily beat them. But a good swain can really become a monster. thb dont worry about popularity and keep using him. many people dont even know how to fight him. i think that he is unpopular because people see him as maybe hard to play :/

XonraNov 19, 20141 votes

He can do the opposite of snowballing if he even partially falls behind. If he dies one or two times in lane then he can't come back because he is so mana reliant and he will be behind very quickly.

Without his ult he is like any other mage but his ult uses so much mana you almost have to build around that to an extent, so it can leave his build paths lacking sometimes, especially depending on matchups.

It is also very easy to build against him and as I said above if you get pressure on him and shut him down early he won't be coming back later because he won't get a chance. He has such a slow build up that unless the game goes to 30+ he won't get the chance to shine.